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Is a Heat Pump the way to Go?

Post in 'The Boiler Room - Wood Boilers and Furnaces' started by chuck172, Mar 31, 2013.

  1. chuck172

    chuck172 Minister of Fire

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    I don't want to burn wood all summer again. My tarm is in my large basement, which could benefit by dehumidification, and cooling.
    Can I utililize my 500 gallon pressurized storage tank, and my 40 gallon superstore indirect hot water tank to work a heat pump?
    It would be a fairly large load, minimum two showers along with a whirlpool tub daily, dishwasher, clotheswasher.
    My other alternative is using my oil boiler along with the superstore on it's own zone.
    I believe my electric rates are something like .089/kwh

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  2. jack kunicki

    jack kunicki Member

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    Had a heat pump installed 5 years ago. Great heat in the winter and great ac in the summer. Paid a lot but feel it was well worth it. Not sure about your situation but I think heat pump technology has improved enough that they need to be considered up here in the northeast.
  3. Floydian

    Floydian Feeling the Heat

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    Chuck,

    Are you thinking about a heat pump water heater? This would cool/dehumidify your basement in the summer and make hot water at a COP of 3+(likely). Of course it would do the same in the winter when cooling and dehumidification would be less than desirable but your boiler/storage could take care of the cold months. All types of HPWH's are probably $1k+ so that seems pretty expensive for use half of the year.

    Maybe I don't understand what you are trying to do here?

    Noah
  4. SIERRADMAX

    SIERRADMAX Feeling the Heat

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    check rebates on an electric heat pump water heater. The rebates in my area pay for the unit itself.
  5. tom in maine

    tom in maine Minister of Fire

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    Here in Maine, it is reasonable to think that a HPWH is going to save 50% on DHW.(could be more)
    It can be tied to a Superstor. I think the average usage with our rates is about $20 a month for a 2 person household.
    So if it is saving $20 a month for 5 months, that is about a 10 year payback.
    Probably less.
    That is 10% return a year on your money. If you are running a dehumidifier in the summertime, then the DHW is free while still paying for the dehumidification.
  6. Floydian

    Floydian Feeling the Heat

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    Yeah, that would look pretty good to me!

    Is the Geyser the only add on HPWH, or are there others? And would a 40 gallon tank be enough?

    Noah
  7. Redbarn

    Redbarn Burning Hunk

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    I have used a Geyser for 2 years now. Plumbed it in parallel with our existing 80 gall DHW tank.
    The existing oil system is used on very cold days in winter and the Geyser is used for the rest of the year.
    Big summer savings as the oil burner is not putting excess heat into the house and the Geyser is pulling energy out of the basement into the DHW. Went from heating our DHW with 1 gall per day of oil to circa $15 per month of electric.
  8. tom in maine

    tom in maine Minister of Fire

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    There are other units. The AirTap is one that I have tried. It is a bit klunky in that it uses a very thin hairpin copper heat exchanger that goes into an existing tank from the top via a special Tee. It does not look like it can be re-used.
    It is inexpensive, but is a one time deal. It does frost up pretty good. The one we are testing is not used in the winter
    where others can be.
    I believe it is made in Singapore. There will be more Chinese units appearing soon, I believe.

    The Geyser looks to be a very high quality build, looking more like an industrial piece of hardware as opposed to something that is made for the consumer market. IMHO.

    In full disclosure, we do sell them from time to time and I have done videos for Nyle Systems.
  9. Floydian

    Floydian Feeling the Heat

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  10. tom in maine

    tom in maine Minister of Fire

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    Marc had been in touch when he did his first study.
    It is interesting that low usage brings the COP down. I think that the HPWH also makes sense as a backup for solar as well.
    This would probably pull down the COP as well if Marc's testing is accurate. I suspect it is.
    I think seasonal usage might push the COP back up somewhat.
  11. chuck172

    chuck172 Minister of Fire

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    how do the Hybrid-Electric Heat Pump Water Heaters compare to the geyser unit? Is there anyway the geyser can utilize my 500 gallon storage?
  12. BoilerMan

    BoilerMan Minister of Fire

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    Tom, I've been looking at the Geyser for quite some time. On their website it looks like there are two lines which connect into the drain, how does this work? I was under the impression that it had an internal circulator which brought the domestic to the unit, heated it, then pumped it back to the tank, via and convienent top of tank location ie. hot water outlet.
    We use a window A/C unit in our bedroom in the summer, and it kills me to just be wasting this heat and burning oil to heat water in the summer. Ducting the cooled dry ain in the bedroom seems like an added bonus the duck work would be less than 6 feet. You know how we wood burners get, oil is evil, even if a tank lasts 4 years.

    TS
  13. tom in maine

    tom in maine Minister of Fire

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    We have tied the Geysers into larger tanks. I see no reason that they cannot be used with pressurized storage-this is just a larger volume like a DHW tank.
    We have used them with Heat Banks, circulating tank water and they work fine.

    There are two plumbing connections on the back of the unit. The upper one is hot out and the lower one is cold in.
    They usually tie into small tanks (like 40g water heaters) through the drain at the bottom of the tank.
    The hookup uses concentric pipes to pull cold water out and inject hot water in.
    Convection makes the hot rise to the top of the tank.

    The Geyser has a built in bronze circulator, so there are only tying the two lines to the assembly at the bottom of the tank and a sensor placed or tie in to the lower electric controls (depending on which unit you are using) and hooking up the condensate drain.
  14. maple1

    maple1 Minister of Fire

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    I thought it had inlet & outlet hoses to connect to your hot water tank (looking like washing machine hoses), and also a condensate line that you would run to a drain.

    EDIT: Beaten to the punch...
  15. tom in maine

    tom in maine Minister of Fire

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    They used to use washing machine hoses, then they got religion.

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