Is fusion power closer than we realize?

Good luck, electrostatic containment is a hard nut to crack. I have been watching this process develop for 30 years now. Even if he has found the key: Will the lobbyists in Washington let it happen? I would love to be on the ground floor invested when fusion power takes off.

Dr. Bussard has some interesting ideas, especially concerning the proton / boron 11 fusion reaction which is the holy grail of power generation - and admittedly the hardest fusion reaction to light. But as he touches on early in the video, the products of the reaction are pure helium, no neutrons. Although I'm sure some enviro-whacko's will even gripe about releasing helium into the atmosphere. There are several web sites dedicated to some of his work. I guess the basic claim so far is a "p+11b" reactor that is approximately 3 meters in diameter, 14 tons in weight and produces 8 gigawatts of power.

I guess if his theories are good enough for Star Trek (I have heard them mention the "Bussard collectors" a couple of times in reference to the Dr's theory of an "interstellar ramjet fusion engine") it would at least be neat to watch the entire video. I would also think that $200 million would be pocket change for alternative energy research considering the billions poured into other avenues of research.

Corey

I think what we need here is for the President to take a page out of the "John Kennedy play book" and issue a challenge similar to Kennedys "race to the moon"..........tell the scientific community we'll pony up unlimited money/people and challenge them to get it done in the next 12 years..........until then we're working with this CF called the "rest of the world"...........

[quote author="castiron" date="1164135666]
I think what we need here is for the President to take a page out of the "John Kennedy play book" and issue a challenge similar to Kennedys "race to the moon"..........tell the scientific community we'll pony up unlimited money/people and challenge them to get it done in the next 12 years..........until then we're working with this CF called the "rest of the world"...........[/quote]

Creepy! I have had that same thought for years now as well. I really think we can accomplish anything we put our collective mind and effort into. I was really hoping the early years of this century might lead to something like "I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of building a viable fusion powerplant and operating it safely" Although no president has seemed willing or able to take a leadership role on something as drastic as fusion power.

I really hope I live to see the day when fusion power is cheap and viable source of energy and we can give the middle east the middle finger. Although I suspect we will then be sending massive care packages to them as we do with the rest of the world, because when oil becomes essentially worthless, there are going to be many middle eastern countries facing economic collapse.

Corey

Web,

I agree...that's why we need more than one group working on the "holy grail".......because, as you say, there may be more than one way to do it and that way may be simpler than how we're going about it now. BIG CF "world consortiums" never solved major problems FAST.....small groups with unlimited money/manpower and little to no bureaucracy do it MUCH BETTER. Now, I hate to bring up a topic that a lot of you will despise (because it congures up visions of war) but the Manhattan Project is such an effort: unlimited $, unlimited people, little-to-no bureaucracy and good old US know how and we cracked that nut!! We can do the same for fusion but NOT anytime soon working with the CF called the "rest of the world"......

That's why I said we need a "race to the moon" equivalent for fusion!

Web,

"Castiron" has always been for self-sufficiency and getting off oil and and to do that, we need to expand the technological envelope to encompass multiple-disciplines (wind, hydro, solar, fusion, etc)...whatever it takes. All I'm saying is that if you want something to get done, you do it yourself You don't form a CF with the rest of the world where we all "hold hands", sing "kumba ya" and "we are the world", etc as nothing gets done....... Instead, you need rapid response teams who know their tasks and are given the $, people and shelter from "bureaucracy" to get the task done.....

We did it in the Manhatten Project and it worked! We did it for the moon race, and it worked! All I'm saying is let's do it for energy!

LOL
The Government (not just Bush ETC but ALL OF THEM) being for anything other than BIG Oil

I dont EVER see ANY of the current parties going for that the way they are currently constituted.

With the current group of incompetents on both sides of the aisle, I agree!

Web,

Excellent analogy.....you sound like an engineer...a clear, concise, and mostly correct analogy......BUT......sometimes if you "gotta have it NOW", you make those trade-offs to go with the people you have at the moment (in this case, US technology) and then throw wads of $, people and NO bureaucracy at it and you will probably beat the rest of the world because they, JUST LIKE THE UN, are bureaucrats...... a decision that could be made here in a quick reaction think-tank in a millisecond takes months of agonizing by those other weenies as they bicker amongst themselves........ I also think however, that you under-estimate the "grey matter" resident here in the USA by its citizens to attack this problem and solve it faster than a CF of countries. I say this because many of our best and brightest were at one time citizens of other countries but are now US citizens, so, in essence, we already do have in this country alone, "grey matter" from all over the world.

Other examples of success where we went at it pretty much alone: development of stealth technology (SR-71, etc), Manhattan Project, race to the moon, etc.

Also, your example of the young student working on fusion makes my point: he had an idea, funding, support with little to no bureaucracy to impede his work and look what he accomplished.......

Don't forget Web, our history IS one of success that when we attack a problem and pour $, manpower and NO bureaucracy at it, it gets solved............all I'm saying is let's not discard a working model that's brought about past success.........

Not so much that they're necessarily headed down the wrong path but that IF they are AND given their "juggernaut status", they may not be willing and/or able to change it. All I'm saying is that if we threw massive $'s against it AND we got the bureaucrats out of the picture AND told the finest minds in the USA to work on this and guaranteed them jobs even after it's cracked, we'd get the job done much more quickly and cheaper. When I was in the military we called these "tiger team concepts" except this would be one very large and expensive undertaking.

Also, saying that the only way to crack fusion is to do it as a "world-wide team effort" belies the fact that historically, we've been able to solve most other problems right here in the good old US of A yet now we're entwined in this world-wide CF and I don't see the end in sight anywhere in the near future.....! As Walter Brennan used to say in the old western sitcom of years ago that he starred in, "no brag, just fact"!

Web,

You missed my comment on pg 1 of this thread where I said the following about people like Braun, and Einstein who came from other countries::

"I also think however, that you under-estimate the “grey matter” resident here in the USA by its citizens to attack this problem and solve it faster than a CF of countries. I say this because many of our best and brightest were at one time citizens of other countries but are now US citizens, so, in essence, we already do have in this country alone, “grey matter” from all over the world. "

Comment: so...when you point out that we got to the moon on the backs of Von Braun and others who were not born here, I already mentioned that in my response on pg 1 of this thread. They might have come from other countries but many became and are US citizens. That could be said for a large percentage of people because so many came here from other countries over the last 100 years. BUT, my point was, and still is, that we could do this effort faster and cheaper than this CF of countries is doing, that's all. And, what you refuse to recognize is that although we've done similar things over and over and over again here in the USA, for some reason you don't seem to think we could crack the fusion nut on our own........Webmaster, Webmaster, Webmaster......where has you faith in American know-how gone......LOL......?

While I see your point, I believe anyone from any country can still enter this country by following the lawful procedures for immigration, no? On the converse, I don't know of any great technological achievements that have ever been developed by any illegal immigrants.

Corey

Good connection that ties it all together.... In fact when you said:

"I believe anyone from any country can still enter this country by following the lawful procedures for immigration, no?"

this is my point exactly! They've already done it (come here) and most have already become US citizens and in that sense, we ALREADY have "grey matter" from all over the globe, right here in the good old US of A!! So....why go elsewhere? let's get this done here and NOW!!

Just remember when flying you will need to follow lawful procedures and a USA Passport to get your grey matter back home, from across the border into this country as of 1/23/07. All other nationals will need a Passport and may need a visa.

Web,

the line you're groping for is attributed to Sir Isaac Newton when he said:

"If I have seen further it is by standing on ye shoulders of Giants"


The bastardized version of this that I like goes like this:

"If others have seen further than me, it's because giants have been standing on my shoulders"....LOL

One more thing web... Von Braun took a lot from an American, Robert Goddard, father of modern rocketry.....in fact, here's the quote from Wicapedia:

"Wernher von Braun used Goddard's plans from various journals and incorporated them into building the A-4 series of rockets--better known as the V-2.[3]. In 1963, von Braun reflected on the history of rocketry, and said of Goddard's work: "His rockets ... may have been rather crude by present-day standards, but they blazed the trail and incorporated many features used in our most modern rockets and space vehicles" [4]. Goddard confirmed his work was used by von Braun when, after the war ended, Goddard inspected captured German V-2s, and recognized many components which he invented[citation needed]."

So, web....we'd have gotten there anyway........

I made no attempt to justify the means, but in the end, I believe Von Braun, Einstein, Fermi and many other top scientists were legalized US citizens. Admittedly, they had some pretty shady history and some pretty questionable circumstances bringing them into the country, but legal none the less.

Kind of like jaywalking on the way to your wedding...is the marriage null and void because you broke a law on the way there?

Corey