i am installing a 40k btu pellet stove in my 1800 sq ft house 1st floor my oil cost me$1,100 for the season my temp stays 65 daytime and 69 at nite i love heat, so i am hoping to cut it in half or less and let my pellet stove take over, pellets are a little high in the north east ,will i save enough or brake even ,i also installed all new windows last year and i have good insulation so am i on the right track????
is my thinking correct
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MountainStoveGuy
Minister of Fire
You might plug your local fuel cost with unit efficiencies in this calculator. http://www.pelletheat.org/3/residential/compareFuel.cfm
Most people here burn about a bag a day during winter.
Most people here burn about a bag a day during winter.
Mo Heat
Mod Emeritus
You'll probably be warmer in the pellet stove room. Getting heat to other rooms can be challenging, but is possible depending on your floor plan, location of the stove, and your house's potential for convection, either natural or fan assisted.
The economics can be difficult to predict or even to measure in some cases, since temperatures from month to month, or year to year, can be inconsistent, etc. Figuring out how much money you actual save can be difficult. But you'll probably have a pretty good idea if you are spending more or less. How much more or less may be elusive. So payback may be hard to determine.
The nice thing about a space heater is that the room it's in is usually as warm as you'd like it, for a reasonable price. The disadvantage is: that space heater may not keep your other rooms as warm as you'd like.
Your insulation and window efforts will likely pay dividends whichever route you take.
The economics can be difficult to predict or even to measure in some cases, since temperatures from month to month, or year to year, can be inconsistent, etc. Figuring out how much money you actual save can be difficult. But you'll probably have a pretty good idea if you are spending more or less. How much more or less may be elusive. So payback may be hard to determine.
The nice thing about a space heater is that the room it's in is usually as warm as you'd like it, for a reasonable price. The disadvantage is: that space heater may not keep your other rooms as warm as you'd like.
Your insulation and window efforts will likely pay dividends whichever route you take.
the nice thing is that the fireplace has a clear view of the hallway and bedroom's and i also have fans in all the room's
PutnamJct
Feeling the Heat
I installed an insert the middle of last month (Quadrafire 1200). My Feb. oil bill was $411. I got my scheduled delivery today: $80. I'm in NY (Putnam County) Needless to say I was very happy and the oil man was not! Cheapest I can get pellets right now is $5.00 bag/$249 ton. I am told that the prices will drop significantly in the next few months so I hope to buy next season's worth for $200 a pallet or less. Oil prices are not coming down anytime soon as far as I can tell. Look at the NYMEX, and the price history (recent and long term). Throw in the wonderful political situations in most of the oil producing countries on this globe and there is little reason to be optimistic. 99 cent a gallon retail No 2 oil is a mere memory now.........
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/hopu/hopu.asp
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/hopu/hopu.asp
Sandor
Minister of Fire
PutnamJct said:
Put,
this is the exact reason why I think it is not wise to install oil/gas auxilliary heating. The future for gas does not look good either.
PutnamJct
Feeling the Heat
Sandor said:
Agreed. Natural gas & propane prices are in the same curve as oil. Guys who are burning wood from their own yards (or even buying by the cord) have it the cheapest monetarily at this point and always will. Unfortunately, not everyone has the ability or inclination to go that route. That being said, I think you have to use caution with some of the calculators out there and use real world examples if possible. Just about every oil/gas producing country with the exception of the US & Canada have some sort of major political problem, dictatorship, war, uprising or the potential for one. Makes for jittery energy markets and extreme price volatility. My own personal opinion is that the the prices are also artificially high due to some level of gouging on behalf of the big producers. They can use all of the India/China excuses they want but the facts to back them up are murky.
Based on the calculator my savings using pellets vs home heating oil won't be as great as they are in reallity. I know my oil furnace (which was the main heat source) ran for the first week I had the pellet stove because I had to get familiar with how to adjust the pellet stove for maximum heat.
Now that I figured it out, the furnace has not kicked on for almost a month, and it has been very cold here. It's 22 this fine morning with a wind chill of 15. My upstairs bedroom on the other end of the house is 69 degrees and I'm using a bag a day.
I don't know what the best answer for backup heat is, I guess the answer will be different for everyone based on their region and availability.
Sorry for the rambling, it 's early.
John
There will be a lot more wood pellet capacity by next fall. Many new pellet plants are being built and many others are adding capacity. However, pellet stoves have sold and no doubt will continue to sell like hotcakes. Hopefully there wil be planty of pellets next winter for all of these new pellet stoves.
You can generally put a pellet stove in any room as long as you meet all of the minimum clearances to combustables and have a means to run a flue that also comforms to code. The flue/ air intake for the pellet stove can be ran through an outside wall.
The Selkirk flues for pellet stoves are pretty slick. Check out this Selkirk document to get an idea of what is invloved: http://www.selkirkinc.com/pdfs/chim/DT-Pellet-Cat.pdf
You can generally put a pellet stove in any room as long as you meet all of the minimum clearances to combustables and have a means to run a flue that also comforms to code. The flue/ air intake for the pellet stove can be ran through an outside wall.
The Selkirk flues for pellet stoves are pretty slick. Check out this Selkirk document to get an idea of what is invloved: http://www.selkirkinc.com/pdfs/chim/DT-Pellet-Cat.pdf
MountainStoveGuy
Minister of Fire
Sandor
Minister of Fire
Anybody making pellets from the leftover corn stalks from the ethanol production? Is it possible?
The Brazilians burn leftover sugar cane stalks to fire the mash. Slick.
The Brazilians burn leftover sugar cane stalks to fire the mash. Slick.
MountainStoveGuy
Minister of Fire
Hokerer
Member
MountainStoveGuy said:
Have you got a reference for that? I know Elk says the same thing also, but our local inspectors say that solid fuel burning appliances are only disallowed in bedrooms in mobile homes (some HUD regulation). In non mobile homes they're Ok. I'd love to have something to back up that they're not.
MountainStoveGuy
Minister of Fire
Its in our local building code. I dont have a piece of paper to fax you or anything, well actually i do, but its buried in my permit file somewhere and im not going to dig it out . If your inspector allows you to put it in your bedroom more power to ya.
So let me refrase my comment.
Check with your local building departmnet before installing a solid burning appliance in your bed room. Alot of places its not allowed but you might have a strange county that allows it.
So let me refrase my comment.
Check with your local building departmnet before installing a solid burning appliance in your bed room. Alot of places its not allowed but you might have a strange county that allows it.
Hokerer
Member
Thanks- maybe that's it. Our state only just late last year was finally dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century when they agreed to adopt a more recent version of the code (2003 I think) to replace the early 90's version they had been at. The way they work, it'll be another 10 years before they bump the code again.
MountainStoveGuy
Minister of Fire
I would be courious why that code exists. My guess is carbon monoxide due to poor draft in sleeping quarters, thats just a guess. And the same thing goes for pellet stoves, but with pellet stoves the only way thats going to happen is when the power goes out and you have a direct vented stove. Any one here no the reasoning behind the solid fuel rules for bedrooms?
my amt of oil in gal since5/9/05 till 2/10/06 is 606 gals at $2.60 a gal so i use about + or - 150 gal a month $1,700 a season +or -
Practically speaking before I look up codes First of all a bedroom requires a door. That door has to be considered closed so there is not enoughcombustion air to support a proper burn. The absence of combustion air, will draw air from the vent back drafting into the bedroom. While sleeping we all are most venerable to suffocation, slow response time to fires specially in the sleeping room, and very susceptible to monoxide poisoning. The risk far out weight the warm comfort. I can not fathom why one would expose themselves to what ifs, if things go wrong in a confined bedroom. If monoxide, your sleep is forever. Some people do not want to listen to the voice of experience. Hopefully they do not become a satistic
Gas stoves only ones that have been tested and approved for bedroom locations can be installed. Same with pellet or wood stoves if it is not listed for that application, it cannot be installed there period
Gas stoves only ones that have been tested and approved for bedroom locations can be installed. Same with pellet or wood stoves if it is not listed for that application, it cannot be installed there period
Hokerer
Member
elkimmeg said:
With the size of today's "Master Suites", even with the door closed, there's way more than enough volume to meet the 50 cubic feet for every 1000 BTUs rule. They said that as long as you meet that, you're Ok.
elkimmeg said:
I had heard you say this before and I tried that argument on them, but no go. They said if you use that reasoning then you couldn't install it in a family room since it isn't specifically listed for that application either.
berlin
New Member
a natural draft appliance would not concern me in the least for a bedroom, especially one that burns wood or coal; people all across the globe have solid fuel space heating in their bedrooms. however i would not feel comfortable with an appliance that is forced draft- too easily things can go wrong and fumes can escape or be forced into the living space.
webbie
Seasoned Moderator
Sandor said:
As nice as solid and renewable fuels are, comparing their market AND their availability to Pellets can be misleading. For ANY future length of time we are going to live in, the availablility of liquid and gas fuels is likely to be vastly more widespread (and therefore somewhat competitive) than Pellets...or even firewood for that matter.
Not trying to talk anyone in or out of anything - but thinking that Pellets are going to be subject to the same market forces that oil and gas are seems wrong. When there are thousands of pellet plants then it might be different. As for now, since Pellet fuel has nothing (in the corporate sense) to do with Pellet Stoves, as long as people are willing to pay a certain price for pellets, they will fetch that price. This is not the same as the international energy markets!
People get mad at me for predicting that - YES, my children will be flying on boeing and airbus planes to come see my funeral. Sure, we will have shocks and temp glitches, but we are not going to run out of fuels to fly airplanes nor heat houses.
Acccording to codes any suplemental heater installed in bedrooms must have a means of either manual or automatic shut down
Can one tell me how quickly a wood stove can be shut down?
Is there some switch or remote control I can use? mine don't seem to have any?
Can one tell me how quickly a wood stove can be shut down?
Is there some switch or remote control I can use? mine don't seem to have any?
yes the requirement for 50 cubic ft of available air for every 1000 btus capacity of the appliance
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