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Is this a decent wood stove?

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by CR250Rider, Nov 12, 2012.

  1. CR250Rider

    CR250Rider New Member

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  2. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Welcome CR. The Englander 13NC is a good medium small stove. It competes in a crowded field of mid-sized stoves. There are lots of threads and reviews here. Search on 13NC.
  3. Sprinter

    Sprinter Minister of Fire

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    I was attracted to this stove at first, too, mostly because of price, which is certainly good. Home Depot sells it, too, as an Englander 13NC. Maybe Lowes also? I believe it was begreen who first tipped me that it requires a hearth pad with an R rating of 2.0 which is unusual and will add to the overall cost of installation. However, if it's the right size for your needs, it has a good reputation.

    If you're in the market, I would encourage you to get involved in this forum. Lots of good advice and experience here. I found that there's a lot to learn to do it right:)
  4. El Finko

    El Finko Member

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    It is for sure a decent stove. I have the 30NC and it is a quality piece, so I would vouch for Englander.

    Just make sure it's the right size firebox for the space you want to heat. Always go big, if in doubt.

    You can catch a big fish with a small hook, but you can't ask a small stove to heat a large space- and the farther from the stove and the more corners the hot air has to negotiate, the bigger the stove you'll need.

    That said, I love my Englander. It's hummin' away as I type this...
  5. Sprinter

    Sprinter Minister of Fire

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    The manufacturer has a pretty solid rep for customer service as well, which is important since they don't have a traditional dealer network.
  6. Pallet Pete

    Pallet Pete Guest

    How many square feet are you trying to heat ? Is your home insulated ? Do you have dry wood ?

    Welcome
    Pete
    PapaDave likes this.
  7. CR250Rider

    CR250Rider New Member

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    1600 sq feet, well insulated 2 story home built in 1984
    stove on 1st floor, we close off the two bedrooms upstairs.
    Wood is dry but not prime at all...
    thanks!
  8. Sprinter

    Sprinter Minister of Fire

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    In your (our) climate, with only the first floor heated of 1600 sf total, well insulated, that stove may well be adequate. But, a couple questions:

    1. Why are you closing off the bedrooms upstairs? Preserve heat or just not used or what?
    2. Do you expect the stove to be the primary heat source, or secondary, supplemental?

    About the wood. It doesn't matter what stove you get, the wood has to be adequately dry, which means 20% moisture content or better. Do you know what it is? If not, you probably should get a moisture meter and find out for sure. We are very adamant about wood quality around here;)
  9. Pallet Pete

    Pallet Pete Guest

    The downstairs would be smaller then the 1600 square feet then ? If so It would fit well however it might be worth going to the 30-NC instead. That way you can heat the whole house and have the extra umph on the really cold nights. Trust me you will want it when it gets real cold out ! The 30-NC is priced anywhere from 699- 1099 depending on what Home Depot is having a sale. You can go to Home Depot website punch in random zip codes or states and get different prices when you get the price you want you can buy it and they ship it to your store free. At least when we where looking.

    Pete
  10. Sprinter

    Sprinter Minister of Fire

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    Pete, anywhere else that may be good advice. But in Seattle, it's really mild. 30's and low 40's is common. 20's happens but not for long. Teens is rare. But that's why I ask about the duty required from a stove and about the upstairs. For supplemental and only the first floor which may only be under 1000 sf and good insulation, I honestly think the 30 would be too much. A mid-size 2 cf might work, though, even heating the upstairs too.
    Pallet Pete likes this.
  11. Pallet Pete

    Pallet Pete Guest

    I would not have guessed that ! I have seen some of the deepest snow and coldest times in Washington state when trucking. I believe you its just odd to me.

    Pete
  12. Sprinter

    Sprinter Minister of Fire

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    You were probably driving through the east part of the state east of the Cascades (or on top of them;lol) . Whole different ball game there. I've lived on both sides and it's like two planets. Not to say that we don't get some severe weather sometimes, we do. Snow, too. It just doesn't happen often or last long.

    Oh, and I think the NC 13 is 1.8 cf which is not as small as many.
    Pallet Pete likes this.
  13. CR250Rider

    CR250Rider New Member

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    yeah, probably 1,000 sq ft downstairs, we have a nice hi/lo burn nat gas furnace, so the wood stove would be to keep me and the Mrs warm during tv time :)
    I think it's better to run a smaller stove hotter, than a larger one cooler, right?
    I got my 1st bid for the chimney...$2250. sounds steep to me...."cost to remove existing metal chimney pipe, install framing for support box, chimney pipe, 6" classA, brackets, and chimney cap."
  14. ddddddden

    ddddddden Minister of Fire

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    Class A pipe ain't cheap, but if you want to DIY, Lowe's/Menard's sells Selkirk SuperVent ~ $25 /ft. last time I looked.
  15. Sprinter

    Sprinter Minister of Fire

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    Big or small. That's a bit controversial sometimes. Most advise you hear will be that it's better to go a step larger if in doubt because you have more capacity in times that you need it and you can build small fires in a larger stove. It will just burn out quicker so you won't have long burn times. Usually that works. However, in your case, it's easier because it will be largely supplemental heat and for ambiance, you have a well insulated house and only 1000 sf to heat on one level in a moderate climate. I think a smaller stove like this would be fine, although it is more medium sized than small. Even smaller maybe, but for ambiance you should maybe consider the size of the window. 1.8 cf is a decent sized stove for a small, easy to heat space. The only caveat I would mention about this particular model is that it requires a hearth pad with a R2.0 insulating value. That would be a bit more expensive to either build or buy, but not necessarily a deal breaker.

    Installation costs vary a lot depending on how tall it needs to be, how it has to be installed, etc. Chimney parts alone can be a lot. $2250 seems like a lot unless there is some reason for it. A two story house may require a pretty long chimney and pipe, especially if the roof is steep and the peak high. They have to remove some existing stuff. Sounds like they have to build a support structure. Was the bid itemized? We may be able to better tell you about the installation if you can detail the estimate. Seattle may also be kind of an expensive market for that, too, especially this time of year. Maybe Seattle has some strict codes to follow. Without a dealer, you better get a good installer.

    I'd advise you to go to some dealers. If cost is a huge consideration, there are other good budget priced stoves sold by dealers. Pacific Energy's True North comes to mind, and others. Also, some day you may want to open up those bedrooms upstairs. It may be wise to plan your selection for that...

    The most important item? Good (dry) wood. And don't believe the supplier. Get a moisture meter and measure what you get.
  16. StihlHead

    StihlHead Guest

    You might wanna save yourself $120 clams ($130 with WA sales tax) and buy the same stove at the Home Depot there in Seattle (the Lander store) where they sell the 13-NC for $649. Home Depot calls it the 1800 sq ft stove. They also have the larger 30-NC at Home Depot that is the same design stove, but deeper for $899. It is also WA state approved.

    Note to self: Thank you for reading the Hearth forum and finding out about and buying an Englander 30 this summer from a HD in Virginia for $649, with free shipping to my living room. :cool:
    Oh, and if in doubt, the 30 will definately roast your home. I have yet to have to fill mine, down to 34 degrees so far this year, ~1400 sq ft dubba wyde tin can, so a 13 would likely have done fine. I am in the west slopes of the Cascades in north Oregon.​
  17. blades

    blades Minister of Fire

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    Englander, Timberline, and Summers heat all the same stoves. That NC-13 should be more than enough for the Seattle weather.
    Flue cost at $2250, I do not think that is out of line, as stated they are removing an old one, building a new chase and installing a new ClassA pipe, actually reasonable considering 25 ft class A pipe at $25/ft is $625 by itself. So $1625 for the new chase, demo of the old, trucking of waste, Building permits and disposal fees. Got to remember guys Seattle has some fairly high costs thanks to all the greenies that slid up from Kalifornia. For that matter the whole west coast is pretty pricey.
  18. corey21

    corey21 Minister of Fire

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    Yeah that is a good stove everything have heard about the company and stove are good things.
  19. StihlHead

    StihlHead Guest

    Should read TimberRidge... but other than that, they all have non cat 13 and 30 models that are the same, and they are all EPA and WA state certified. Also Kings Co., WA certified with an OAK. Englanders from HD seems to be the cheapest available here in the spendy west.
  20. CR250Rider

    CR250Rider New Member

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    the chimney starts at the ceiling of the 1st floor, goes into a interior wall upstairs and through the 2nd floor ceiling where the angle of the roof makes the ceiling of the 2nd floor where the pipe goes through only about 7 feet, no attic, just slanted roof. So I would guess the length of the chimney to be installed at around 17 feet tops. I was going to hook up the black stove pipe from the stove to the ceiling flange myself, on the 1st floor...
    ...if that makes sense ?

    no itemized estimate, I think he's charging me $800-1,000 labor for 6 hours of total house work. ?
  21. ddddddden

    ddddddden Minister of Fire

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    $25 /ft is for SuperVent. A fancier brand might run double that price.

    Maybe. I just had to drop a flex liner down a masonry chimney, so I don't know exactly how difficult a through-the-roof install is, but I think the job can be done by any decent carpenter. . .doesn't necessarily have to be "chimney" guy. OTOH, your insurance co might require that anyone other than you doing the install be a "professional" chimney guy.
  22. blades

    blades Minister of Fire

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    Sorry on the timberline/ridge, 2 out 3 ain't all bad. Heck the other day I could not come up with the first 3 digits of my ss#. Memory loss is a groan, but hey I get a lot of new friends that way, everyday.
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  23. CR250Rider

    CR250Rider New Member

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    I had my 3rd bid for my new class A chimney today and the estimator said "your existing chimney is up to code in every way, why are you replacing it? just get a reducer for the chimney's 8"

    Hat's off to Al Brown.....fire safe chimney sweep & repair, Renton, WA... 100% honest guy. his "helper-guy" Rodger is a journeyman in his own right. Saved me a lot of money I can now spend on Quartz countertops for the Mrs.... :)
    Pallet Pete likes this.
  24. ddddddden

    ddddddden Minister of Fire

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    Sweet! It's nice when you stumble across one of the few remaining honest people in this world. :)
    You might want to get Al's opinion in writing, to pacify your insurance co. It might also be a good idea to ask Mike(stoveguy2esw) what he thinks about running the 13NC with an 8" flue. It's generally considered best to stay with the same diameter from the stove collar all the way up. Some stoves are probably fine with increasing flue size; some might be more finicky about draft.
  25. stoveguy2esw

    stoveguy2esw Minister of Fire

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    the unit can be connected to a flue that is within cross sectional value no more than 2 times that of the flue collar on the stove. 2 times piR squared. the "R" is radius so if a 6 inch round is used its radius is 3 (or half the width) 4 is radius for 8 inch round. so piR sq. is for a 6 inch round (3 X 3) X 3.14, or 9 X 3.14.

    on a square flue you simply go length X width so a 6 inch square would be 6x6 or 36 sq in. say a flue is 6 X 9 would be 54 sq in.

    connecting to an 8 inch round flue is fine. bigger than that would be an issue. you look at cross sectional value, which is basically how many square inches of space. a 6" flue would be 28.26 sq inches (3.14 X 9) or (3 times piR sq.) now an 8 inch round would be 50.24 (3.14 X 16) or (4 times piR sq)

    so at 28.26 X 2 (56.52 sq in) you have your maximum cross sectional value for a 6 inch flue'd appliance the 8 inch round is within the size parameters allowed to connect to any woodstove with a 6 inch collar unless the manufacturer SPECIFICALLY states you can only use a 6 inch flue. we do not make that specification.

    so long story short yeah you can hook that 13 up to an eight inch flue. just thought it would be neat to throw the math out there for folks to see how to calculate cross sectional values on a round flue.
    CR250Rider likes this.

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