Is this really for us?

[JoeRJGR]

Just wondering everyones opinion here..

After a bunch of research, my wife and I have decided on a Clydesdale insert. Here are the main reasons for the insert purchase:


1. Enjoy our fireplace and the atmosphere it provides, instead of making our house actually colder...
2. Off set some of our heating bill
3. Get rid of the old hideous brass glass door
4. My friend is a tree surgeon and I can get all the free wood I need

I work from home about 2 - 3 days per week, and I figure at most we'll use the insert over the weekend and when I am home (say 4 days per week when its really cold at most. We have a 2 story 2500 sq feet colonial. The insert would go in the family room which is open to the kitchen and adjacant to open hallway to the 2nd floor. We should get pretty good airfloe.

After reading a whole bunch of posts, we are starting to re-think this, and here is why.

1. We live in Central Jersey, and have two zone gas heat...It doesnt get much cheaper than that and its not below freezing here for 5 months out of the year.

2. All these posts about over heating, checking the water content on your wood, and sweeping the liner every month is making us think this may be too much hassle for us. I realize there is a learner curve, and there are hundreds of people who run their inserts everyday with no issues that dont post here, but still, I dont want to be tied to the house every weekend because I dont want to run the insert low when I leave for 20 minutes to go to the store and get tons of cresote...like wise, I dont want to have to climb on the rough every month to clean the liner.

I'd love to hear from some "casual" users who dont run there inserts 24/7 to offset a huge oil bill....I totally understand how all of the above makes that worth it....

Thanks so much!

 

[rover47]

I guess you "could " call me an occasional burner. We can heat the whole house with using both stoves. But with everyone one working and no one there to feed the stoves we are evening and weekend burners. With good wood and new stoves I don't see either chimney being a creosote maker. So I don't see a problem being a part time burner. And yes the fire view in the monty is great!

 

[zzr7ky]

I had the same plan as you have. However After reading the posts I went with a free standing stove mounted in the FP opening to get more heat from the set-up.

I burn wood that's dried a year or better; Oak 2 years or better. I don't own a moisture meter; if the wood 'rings' like a wooden baseball bat it's ready.

With a liner, and decent wood, I try to clean my liner every year. I get a pint or so of fine ash from the liner.

It's really not a big deal. If some one is home the stove is running.

With a modern stove/insert with a liner, and seasoned fuel I just do not hear any issues. As to over-firing. It's pretty easy to avoid. Follow the instructions. You can easily 'Over fire' your automobile but you don't because it's absurd. Check your gaskets once ayear and replace them as needed and it's just not an issue.

If you're concerned still I'd visit a good retail place or better yet a board ember in your area.


ATB,
Mike

 

[Fsappo]

A lot of folks overthink these things as a hobby. Buy the insert, burn your fires when you want a fire. The Clydesdale is a soft even type of heat. Burn seasoned wood and get your chimney cleaned once a year. You'll have years and years of enjoyment with your Clydesdale with little or no grief. Get it proffesionally installed with a liner of course. Dont go crazy looking for heat guns and micromanaging things (unless you want that to be your hobby. Just build a nice fire, cut the air back a little and enjoy.

 

[firefighterjake]

Just wondering everyones opinion here..

After a bunch of research, my wife and I have decided on a Clydesdale insert. Here are the main reasons for the insert purchase:


1. Enjoy our fireplace and the atmosphere it provides, instead of making our house actually colder... Fair enough.
2. Off set some of our heating bill . . . Better yet
3. Get rid of the old hideous brass glass door
4. My friend is a tree surgeon and I can get all the free wood I need . . . Best point yet . . . I think #4 would sell me on going this route since even the cheapest natural gas prices cannot beat free . . . it sounds like all you need to provide is a little bit of capital at the start up and some labor . . . and I guess in making your final decision on whether to go this route you have to ask yourself if you are willing to invest the labor or not.

I work from home about 2 - 3 days per week, and I figure at most we'll use the insert over the weekend and when I am home (say 4 days per week when its really cold at most. HehHeh . . . I said the same thing . . . I'll just use my woodstove on the weekends and evenings I am home to offset the price of oil . . . took me a week or so and I decided to go 24/7. We have a 2 story 2500 sq feet colonial. The insert would go in the family room which is open to the kitchen and adjacant to open hallway to the 2nd floor. We should get pretty good airfloe. Pretty big space . . . you may not be able to heat the entire place with one insert . . . but you should be able to make a dent at least . . . and have a nice focal point in the family room.

After reading a whole bunch of posts, we are starting to re-think this, and here is why.

1. We live in Central Jersey, and have two zone gas heat...It doesnt get much cheaper than that and its not below freezing here for 5 months out of the year. True enough . . . but again . . . free often beats cheap . . . and cheap gas isn't guaranteed to be forever.

2. All these posts about over heating, checking the water content on your wood, and sweeping the liner every month is making us think this may be too much hassle for us. There is some work . . . and there is a learning curve. Anyone who says heating with work is as easy as ordering oil or turning up the thermostat is lying or deluding themselves . . . it's just a different sort of work . . . and a different sort of heat. Overheating: You may overheat your room or house . . . until in time you learn how to moderate the heat and heating needs by how much wood you put in the firebox, how often you reload and the size and type of wood in the firebox. It's a learning process . . . and nothing helps motivate a person and teach them an important lesson when they have put way too much primo oak in their woodstove in early Fall and have the room at 84 degrees. Water content: Some folks check the wood. I never do. I take the simpler approach by cutting, splitting and stacking my wood at least one year prior . . . and with oak I leave it to the side for at least 2-3 years. Sweeping monthly: I sweep my chimney monthly . . . but that's because I'm super safety conscious . . . most folks should check their chimney frequently in the first year of operation . . . but once they get a handle on how to run their stove and have good wood I would think most folks could get away with checking and cleaning their chimney 1-2 times a year. That said . . . in the end only you can decide if the extra work is worth it or not . . . for me saving money is a big benefit with oil prices $3+ per gallon . . . but I also like the self-sufficient aspect, I like knowing I am warm regardless of whether I have power or not and I like the feel, smell and view of a woodstove fire . . . the stink of the oil and view of my big, blue oil boiler . . . well that just doesn't have the same effect on me.

I realize there is a learner curve, and there are hundreds of people who run their inserts everyday with no issues that dont post here, but still, I dont want to be tied to the house every weekend because I dont want to run the insert low when I leave for 20 minutes to go to the store and get tons of cresote...like wise, I dont want to have to climb on the rough every month to clean the liner. I don't consider myself tied to the house due to my woodstove . . . truth be told if I thought I would have been tied to my house I would not have gone with a woodstove . . . in fact one of the reasons I opted not to go with an outdoor wood boiler was because I didn't want to be tied down . . . not to heating . . . but to having to always provide so much wood to feed that beast . . . I routinely leave my home without fear of burning the place down or causing creosote . . . it's not unusual for me to leave the house during the weekend for several hours to go snowmobiling or grocery shopping . . . and I usually go to sleep at night at 10 p.m. and don't wake up until 4 or 5 the next morning . . . I didn't want to get a woodstove where I would have to feed it every 3 hours to stay warm. . . . again . . . they are more work . . . but it's a different sort of work . . . only you can decide if the benefits of that work outweigh the cons.I'd love to hear from some "casual" users who dont run there inserts 24/7 to offset a huge oil bill....I totally understand how all of the above makes that worth it....

Thanks so much!

 

[Adios Pantalones]

Get ahead on wood, season it right, sweep once a year if burning 24/7 or less if you're not burning all the time. I could sweep every other year I think, and burn 4 cord of wood- if I was an occasional burner I'd probably sweep every other year, mostly to make sure there were no weird issues before the season (wasp nest in the flue, something corroding, etc).

You don't have to be there when the fire is burning, and you don't have to burn 24/7 anyways.

I have never checked the water content of my wood with a meter once in my life and have no creosote issues.

It's good that you ask these questions! There's a learning curve that isn't too bad- but people take the safety aspects very seriously and ask detailed questions here. That gives the impression that burning is a PITA, when it's not.

Welcome aboard!

 

[Jags]

Great responses so far.

But...make no mistake, burning wood is work, even if you have it dropped off at your front door. Wood doesn't bring itself into the house and I have yet to see it spontaneously combust. It doesn't stack itself and there is no stove on the market that removes its own ash. Most of us on this forum somewhat relish these tasks. It gives us a reason to get some exercise, to go get a face full of fresh, crisp air.

Just throwing it out there, but if you are of the lazy variety that would prefer a couch and remote over boots and gloves, it might not be a fit. But I would also bet that there are many on this board that has wondered the same questions as you have and are now committed burners (some are committed patients, also ;-P )

A stove can be used as much or little as you decide. Plugging a fireplace with a stove does not commit you to a "new" lifestyle unless you want it to be. Be aware - its addicting.

 

[remkel]

Install it right, light it up, clean it......pretty simple process.

Enjoy.

 

[JoeRJGR]

Thanks everyone, I appreciatted the input...


I think sometimes you have to keep in mind that a lot of people who post with issues are really a very small minority, and unless your really into it, you dont post either.

So the 90% of people who have no issues with their inserts and use like I plan to are the silent majority!!

Thanks again all..

One last thing....any opinions on insulation for the liner? Every installer says we dont need it, but I dont want to cheap out either..its a safety thing for me...


Thanks again!

 

[Jags]

....any opinions on insulation for the liner? Every installer says we dont need it, but I dont want to cheap out either..its a safety thing for me...

I got plenty of opinion on that. :lol:

Insulate your liner. Top AND bottom plate. Don't accept less. It is not only a safety thing, it is an efficiency thing.
If you lived in Kentucky, maybe not so much, but NJ gets winter.

 

[JoeRJGR]

Thanks Jags -

I am familiar with how to insulate the liner and the bottom plate, but how do you insulate the top plate? You mean the one at the top of the Chimney??

 

[Jags]

Thanks Jags -

I am familiar with how to insulate the liner and the bottom plate, but how do you insulate the top plate? You mean the one at the top of the Chimney??

The plate itself is just a plate - a block off. You run the insulation up to it.

My statement of Top and Bottom plate was to insure that a bottom plate was installed as well.

 

[JoeRJGR]

Jags,

Thanks for the response..

I'm confused once again.....the block off plate goes right below the flue door correct? Where would you put the second plate?

 

[Adios Pantalones]

One goes at the top of the chimney

 

[Jags]

Jags,

Thanks for the response..

I'm confused once again.....the block off plate goes right below the flue door correct? Where would you put the second plate?

The idea is to create an insulated dead air space, so as AP said, you have a plate on top - blocking the elements and a plate down below, with insulation in between them. The bottom plate is above the stove and usually the best place to locate it is in the area of the damper for the old fire place.

 

[JoeRJGR]

So you are talking about filling the space between the top plate and the bottom plate with insulation as opposed to just wrapping insulation around the liner? This is not a prefab fireplace but a very large brick one...

 

[wood-fan-atic]

I'm in NY (Long Island) and have an insert with an uninsulated liner. I have my stove/chimney in the center of my house---> not an outside wall, so its not as much of an issue (heat loss,draft,creosote,etc.). That being said, when I had it installed, I didnt know any better. If I knew then what I know now (thanx to this site), I probably would have bought an insulated liner.
Wood heat is, indeed, a lot of work. It happens to be work that I love to do, and the benefits far outway the inconvieniences that come along with wood heat (cutting/splitting/stacking/mess,etc.).
I have never once NOT left the house b/c the stove was running (24/7 for us). It runs just fine whether Im asleep or at work or at the store or whatever. When you get youre burning routine down pat, its like any other machine in your life----> treat it with respect,and you'll be fine.

 

[Jags]

So you are talking about filling the space between the top plate and the bottom plate with insulation as opposed to just wrapping insulation around the liner? This is not a prefab fireplace but a very large brick one...

The wrap is just fine for the insulation part and the top and bottom plate will be the dead air space. Insulation can come in the form of wrapped or poured.

 

[eujamfh]

We are a two income working family which means no one is home during the day. We like having a fire 24/7, but it doesn't always happen. Certainly not the first year with a lot of poplar because the oak was not ready. This meant we burned hotter than I would have liked (not for safety, but we went through a lot of wood and had some "wet" pieces) the first two years.

Now I am deployed, and the wife has the one stove burning (or at least giving heat with coals) 24/7 on her own. One big reason is we are now into 3-4 year oak. So we get lots of heat with the stove dampened down vice roaring.

The first couple years we cleaned the fully lined SS liner every two years. Brought a guy in the first year and he said "save your money - nothing there." Second year guy said, you can easily wait...I said thanks but go ahead.

I guess my point is if you are willing to do a little homework (which you already have if you are on this forum) and do not mind the labor getting/buying/hauling wood in to burn...you will find a natural rhythm that works for you. It becomes a hobby as noted above to some which means we get "fixed" on the ideal....but there is lots of room to enjoy a stove and get the benefits of clean burning and better efficiency.

Its like owning a Harley. You can spend every second cleaning, tweaking and making it perfect, or you can take good care of it and ride it as a bike. In the end both methods will get you from point a to b...one will consume your weekends, the other may make you equally happy but not win any prizes at the local fair.

You don't need to be obsessed like some of us to make it worthwhile.

Cheers,
Matt

 

[JoeRJGR]

Jags,

when you say top plate, you mean something in addition to the collar that goes around the pipe at the top of the chimney?

Once again, thanks for your help..

 

[Jags]

Jags,

when you say top plate, you mean something in addition to the collar that goes around the pipe at the top of the chimney?

Once again, thanks for your help..

Nope - that is probably it. I assume you mean the collar that fits tight around the pipe and then covers the top of the chimney? If so - that is your top plate.

 

[stejus]

Running 24x7 here in a similar house, 2000 sq ft (Family room stove insert that is off the kitchen and center hallway to upstairs).

I load three times a day (7:00AM, 2:30PM, 10:00PM). This involves getting wood from covered porch right outside of stove room.
Reload cycle time is about 20 minutes. That is from loading to shutting down and walking away. You can do other things at this time, just be near the stove room.
Empty ash every other day in the AM.
Enjoy the heat from wood and not from oil.

Once a week I load the wood on covered deck. This involves bringing up wood from the piles in the back yard to the covered porch in the front of the house.
Once a year I hire a sweep to clean stove and liner. ( I attribute this to a seasoned wood and an insulated liner).
Once a year (April) I stack 3 to 4 cords of delivered wood. Basically every weekend here and there.

Set it up correctly and you should have similar results. The stove doesn't own me, I own the stove. Just find a routine and stick with it. The reward is warmth and not hearing "It's cold in hear" all winter long. Besides that, every gallon of oil I save goes back in my pocket and not OPEC.

 

[KarlP]

IMO, knocking 35-65% off my gas bill and keeping the house warmer is a fun hobby. More than that is work. Less than that is expensive. Your finances and work ethic may vary.

Split your wood before tax time, cover the top (only) to keep the rain off, and let it sit all summer. If it is oak, osage, or mulberry give it two summers. You won't need a moisture meter and you won't have any problems burning.

If you have dry wood and you aren't burning 24/7 you'll probably only need two cleanings a year.

If you have dry wood and you learn how your insert burns in your chimney in your climate you'll probably find you're only tied to the stove for ~15 minutes after you reload it.

(Get working on stacking/splitting wood now! The secret is well seasoned wood.)

 

[Mike821]

My install does not have an insulated liner. I have 22" off double wall SS with a bottom block off plate. The top also has a cap and block off plate. No insulation at all. Should I insulate from the top?

 

[Jags]

My install does not have an insulated liner. I have 22" off double wall SS with a bottom block off plate. The top also has a cap and block off plate. No insulation at all. Should I insulate from the top?

Does it work right - good draft. No (little) creosote - do you create enough heat for the home - do you feel a draft. Answer those questions and you will know if you need to or not.

While planning an install, I think it is cutting corners not to. But for an install that is up and running - you have to decide for yourself.