1. Welcome Hearth.com Guests and Visitors - Please enjoy our forums!
    Hearth.com GOLD Sponsors who help bring the site content to you:
    Hearthstone Soapstone and Cast-Iron stoves( Wood, Gas or Pellet Stoves and Inserts)
    Caluwe - Passion for Fire and Water ( Pellet and Wood Hydronic and Space Heating)

Is this typical for catalytic stove?

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by lumbering on, May 19, 2013.

  1. lumbering on

    lumbering on Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2012
    Messages:
    482
    Loc:
    New York
    I've been thinking a lot about changing to a catalytic stove.

    Found this video on you tube:




    Is this typical secondary combustion with a catalytic stove?

    If so, I'm not sure what all the debate is about regarding not getting a good flame show with catalytics and needing a non-cat to get the amazing rolling secondaries. This looks pretty good to me.

    Helpful Sponsor Ads!





  2. Vic99

    Vic99 Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2006
    Messages:
    836
    Loc:
    MA, Suburb of Lowell
    That is ideal and can be typical. More blue flame = more efficient burn. Sometimes the rolling flame comes and goes, sometimes it won't be seen because the operator didn't hit the sweet spot or perhaps something else is off (wood issue, gasket leak, etc.)

    I had a Hearthstone Homestead before a Fireview. The Hearthstone flame show with the secondary tubes was really fantastic with several jet-like flames pushing forward from the roof of the firebox and down the ceramic glass. I rate the Hearthstone fire an "A" and the Firevew's lazy, rolling, aurora-like flame a "B" . Good stuff, but the other was cooler in my view.
  3. Backwoods Savage

    Backwoods Savage Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2007
    Messages:
    27,816
    Loc:
    Michigan
    That can be typical for the Fireview but usually it is a bit wilder; sort of like the pits of Hell itself. Fascinating to watch at times. I may have posted one on youtube but don't remember for sure. Can I buy more RAM? Mine is going bad.
  4. lumbering on

    lumbering on Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2012
    Messages:
    482
    Loc:
    New York
    So why do the cat stoves keep getting a bad rap for poor fire view? That view is pretty awesome.
  5. raybonz

    raybonz Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2008
    Messages:
    6,205
    Loc:
    Carver, MA.
    The Fireview and other Woodstock stoves tend to be an exception to the black window thing.. Other cat stoves can stay cleaner but not when run down low..

    Ray
  6. lumbering on

    lumbering on Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2012
    Messages:
    482
    Loc:
    New York
    Oh, ok. What about the Woodstock Keystone? Same exemption?
  7. raybonz

    raybonz Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2008
    Messages:
    6,205
    Loc:
    Carver, MA.
    I believe all Woodstocks have this attribute due to their airwash and also a dbl. layer of glass..

    Ray
  8. mattjm1017

    mattjm1017 Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2012
    Messages:
    408
    Loc:
    Corapeake NC
    Having properly seasoned wood is a key ingredient to getting those amazing secondary's. I was burning good wood and getting good secondary's then I ran out and was using less than seasoned wood and pretty much lost all of the show.
  9. jeff_t

    jeff_t Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Messages:
    3,383
    Loc:
    SE MI
    Blaze King's airwash sucks. I'll get some pretty cool floating flames when the gases ignite off the cat, but the window is far from crystal clear. That takes a lot away from the show, I think. It's also making tons of heat that I really only need when it's super cold or windy, so most of the time it's a waste.
  10. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2008
    Messages:
    4,021
    Loc:
    southern Indiana
    They all do this when they are first shut down. Then the secondary ghosting goes away, after that typically a glowing cat is all that is left to see. Some get get very dirty glass, others don't.
    Highbeam and rdust like this.
  11. alforit

    alforit Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2013
    Messages:
    261
    Loc:
    Western Washington
    I like it dirty ;lol
    Oldhippie likes this.
  12. charly

    charly Guest

    I get those ghost flames as well... At times nothing will be there, and an hour or two later some wood in the back of the stove will finally take off and there's a nice display again. Just leave the draft open a little more and you have constant flames... My Fireview will just run the cat at .5- .75 draft setting, then once left at 1,, I'll have flames and the cat burning the whole time. Depends on how much heat you want.. Oh and I only needed to clean my glass once this year...
    Oldhippie likes this.
  13. Joful

    Joful Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    5,888
    Loc:
    Philadelphia
    A select few cat stoves seem to have poor flame show, and non-cat manufacturers latch onto this uncommon trait to paint the entire technology with a broad brush. They need to latch onto something, as there are few "real" negatives to name when discussing cat stoves.

    The real negative of cat stoves? They won't do well in the hands of a neanderthal who can't read a few very simple directions. If you're not that guy, you'll do fine with a cat stove. The trouble for the cat stove manufacturers is, that guy represents a large portion of the stove-buying market.
  14. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2008
    Messages:
    4,021
    Loc:
    southern Indiana
    This is simply not true. In fact there a few cat stoves that seem to have a good fire view, But many do not. I'm not saying they aren't nice stoves, they often are the best performers, but many have a poor view. That is why they have the long burn times. I think it's important to make customers aware of this. I have ran many different cat and non-cat stoves, so I'm not basing my opinion on only one stove. I love cat stoves, I just love the nice clean fire view better!;)
  15. Joful

    Joful Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    5,888
    Loc:
    Philadelphia
    I don't think we disagree webby. Long burn times are achieved by cranking down the air. Good flame show is achieved by opening up the air. This is common to any stove.

    If you want good flame show with max burn times, then you're right... a cat stove may not deliver. However, good flame show can always be achieved... just open up the air!

    Non-cats achieve good flame show while "shut down", but their burn time is generally less than an equivalently-sized cat stove, largely because they can't be shut down as tight. If you were to run a cat stove at a similar burn rate to a non-cat, perhaps the flame show would be more.

    My comment about the "select few" was aimed at those few cat stoves with poor or non-existant airwash systems, such that the glass is always sooted up.
  16. lumbering on

    lumbering on Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2012
    Messages:
    482
    Loc:
    New York
    So to get a cat flame show to look like a non-cat, just allow more air?

    And then the rate of wood consumption/heat output would be the same for both stove types when operating in this range?

    If so, I could live with that: cranked down to .5 during the day and overnights, open it up to setting 1 or more in the evening when we want to view the fire show.
  17. alforit

    alforit Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2013
    Messages:
    261
    Loc:
    Western Washington

    Absolutely ! Much more flexibility

    The type of fire show will be different on the cat compared to the non-cat........And that would just be subject to personal opinion on preference.................In my opinion a fire show is a fire show............they both look great in their own way
  18. Joful

    Joful Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    5,888
    Loc:
    Philadelphia
    Yes, that's the general idea. I can't say that the rates of burn in that condition will be exactly the same (lots of variables), but that's the general point I was making. A cat can be run wide open (scary hot), throttled back part way (lazy flame), or shut down tight (no flame / black box heat source). A non-cat can only be run wide open or throttled back part way, and can't be shut down as tight as a cat. This is the primary reason for the burn time discrepancies.

    Me? I run my cat stoves open part way when I'm home in the evenings, trying to get some heat pumped into the house, and the flame show is fantastic. When I'm asleep or not home, both stoves are shut down pretty tight.
  19. mellow

    mellow Resident Stove Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2008
    Messages:
    3,043
    Loc:
    Salisbury, MD
    If I want a fire going I open up the air intake, BUT to make sure I do not get flame impingement on my cat I do not let it get as crazy as I could on my tube stove.

    A nice ghostly flame and a hot coal bed satisfy me 99% of the time.
  20. charly

    charly Guest

    Why not just get one of the Hybrid stoves, Woodstocks Progress, or the Lopi Cape Cod ? Now you have the best of both worlds,, secondary burn for a great flame show along with a cat to burn any left over smoke.
    Oldhippie and Joful like this.
  21. lumbering on

    lumbering on Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2012
    Messages:
    482
    Loc:
    New York
    Would love to get the Woodstock Progress, but will not fit in my set-up. Prefer more of a radiant type to a convection type and therefore moved the Cape Cod lower on the list. Eagerly awaiting the front load Woodstock Union Hybrid.
  22. charly

    charly Guest

    I'm sure the Union is going to be a very unique stove, knowing Woodstock's name is on it.. It's suppose to have an easy price tag as well. All maybe worth the wait...
  23. Joful

    Joful Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    5,888
    Loc:
    Philadelphia
    Well, there's always old Jotul 12's and 8's on the market. Expect to pay $900 for a 12 or $700 for an 8 in good shape, plus $200 for a new cat, and a few dollars for gaskets, cement, etc. Most of the used Jotul cat stoves I see for sale are in New England. Must've been a few big retailers up there in the 1990's.

    From the mouth of one Woodstock owner: "The Jotul 12 is the best stove I've ever burned for many reasons..."

    http://www.hearth.com/talk/bookmarks/527/view-item
  24. Seasoned Oak

    Seasoned Oak Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2008
    Messages:
    3,624
    Loc:
    Eastern Central PA
    I get a show like that all the time with my harman downdraft (NON CAT) but not with my 2 other types of non cat stoves as both have the re- burn air tubes up at the top of the firebox, and you do see a blue flame coming from them that looks just like a gas grill or a gas stove,but no rolling ghost flames.
  25. Highbeam

    Highbeam Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Messages:
    8,786
    Loc:
    base of Mt. Rainier on the wet side, WA
    I miss the flameshow from my hearthstone heritage. It was quite good and the window stayed clean. Same wood, same stove temps, with a the BK and I only get flames early on in the burn and the glass gets dirty. Small price to pay for the extreme efficiency and burn time improvements. We still see flames early on but they are not the pretty ones, they look more like a campfire in a box which is still quite nice.
    webby3650 likes this.

Share This Page