1. Welcome Hearth.com Guests and Visitors - Please enjoy our forums!
    Hearth.com GOLD Sponsors who help bring the site content to you:
    Hearthstone Soapstone and Cast-Iron stoves( Wood, Gas or Pellet Stoves and Inserts)
    Caluwe - Passion for Fire and Water ( Pellet and Wood Hydronic and Space Heating)

Jotul F 118 CB Black Bear among other things

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by XxDarkEuphoriaxX, Apr 1, 2010.

  1. XxDarkEuphoriaxX

    XxDarkEuphoriaxX New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2010
    Messages:
    12
    Loc:
    Southern Indiana
    So I have forgone the idea to go with a older Fisher stove, and have been looking at some newer EPA models. The three that interest me are: The Jotul Black Bear, the Hearthstone Shelburne, and the Napoleon 1100C cast iron stove. The house the stove will be in will be around 1000-1200 square feet. My favorite model is the Jotul, but I have concerns...
    I have read...

    The jotul's fire box is too small
    The Napoleon is small and doesn't burn very long
    The Shelburne has issues with paint fading off...

    I can't decide which is the best. I my first choice would be jotul, then napoleon, then shelburne.

    What do you guys think? I want a stove that can burn for at least 6 hours if not more and be in the 1500 range, and I like the look of cast iron which all of these stoves are.

    Helpful Sponsor Ads!





  2. oldspark

    oldspark Guest

    Seems to me you have ruled out all three for one reason or another, no other brands that interest you?
  3. XxDarkEuphoriaxX

    XxDarkEuphoriaxX New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2010
    Messages:
    12
    Loc:
    Southern Indiana
    the others are the woodstock fireview and the harman oakwood. but I have read that the oakwood can have issues with the gaskets it is made with instead of cement so I am concerned that it will have that type of issue. and the woodstock fireview sounds good, but both of these stoves are too expensive, almost twice as much as the other models listed. That is the main reason I am not considering them.
  4. EatenByLimestone

    EatenByLimestone Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2006
    Messages:
    4,845
    Loc:
    Schenectady, NY
    Why do you like cement over gaskets? I'd rather have the gasket that can better deal with the heat related expansion and contraction along the joints.

    Matt
  5. oldspark

    oldspark Guest

    Woodstock has the 600 dollar off sale and the 100 dollar shipping plus the 30%tax credit, do your self a favor and get what you want, years later you will be happy you did.
  6. REF1

    REF1 Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    265
    Loc:
    South West, VA
    I considered the Black Bear recently. I went with a Hearthstone. Didn't work out for me. Now I have an Elm, which is great, but I do like the character of the Black Bear, and after using an east/west loading stove I am really loving the north/ south burn of this Elm, so the Jotul would get my vote if it can put out the heat you need for your home.
  7. REF1

    REF1 Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    265
    Loc:
    South West, VA
    The specs on the Black Bear certainly seem like it would heat your home easily. Holding 24" logs is pretty impressive. And the overall size and weight of the stove should handle your needs more than enough.
  8. XxDarkEuphoriaxX

    XxDarkEuphoriaxX New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2010
    Messages:
    12
    Loc:
    Southern Indiana
    Yeah, and one problem I have encountered is in my area (Evansville IN) nobody has the stoves I want to look at in stock, and if I order it is a special order and I HAVE to buy.... instead of seeing what I want before I buy.
  9. REF1

    REF1 Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    265
    Loc:
    South West, VA
    No Jotul dealers at all near a big place like Evansville? Huh. Or just no Jotul dealers that have a Black Bear on the floor? Indeed, that can be a problem.
  10. EatenByLimestone

    EatenByLimestone Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2006
    Messages:
    4,845
    Loc:
    Schenectady, NY
    Might be time for a road trip.

    Matt
  11. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    48,015
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Maybe see if you can get a cosmetically damaged, floor model or used Jotul F400 (Castine) from the dealer. Ask the dealer if they know of any customers considering an upgrade to a larger size?
  12. summit

    summit Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2008
    Messages:
    1,903
    Loc:
    central maine
    I am not the biggest fan of the new 118, nor napoleon, nor the shelburne... but if you are liking the cast Iron look, might I suggest a nice alderlea by PE? Or maybe a different Jotul: The F400 would suit you right.
  13. rickw

    rickw New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2007
    Messages:
    142
    The woodstock can be had delivered for just under $1700 (including tax credit), until 4/17. Its a great stove at really good price.
  14. precaud

    precaud Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2006
    Messages:
    2,293
    Loc:
    Sunny New Mexico
    The F118 loads north/south, but does not burn that way. It burns "omni"...
  15. REF1

    REF1 Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    265
    Loc:
    South West, VA
    Well, well, so it does. Main intake on the door, and intake for the back end secondaries underneath the unit. But that seems to be for air they want to enter at the top of the box under the baffle to burn volatiles. Not sure that ends up being an omni-directional burn by design, but it would lend to doing that somewhat. I'd still call the stove a north south burn for the most part. But, aha! This brings up a point for another thread.
  16. precaud

    precaud Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2006
    Messages:
    2,293
    Loc:
    Sunny New Mexico
    Ref, if you spent some time using the stove you'd see it is definitely not a N/S burner. Actually, it burns alot like the Waterford Leprechaun that I wrote about a few weeks ago. I've attached the drawing of the F118 air sources from the manual. The majority of combustion air is coming from the rear of the stove. The "Flash Fire" lever stimulates the fire by increasing the air from the rear of the stove, not from the front.

    The fact is, just like the other deep-geometry N/S stoves, there is NO WAY that air coming from the front door is going to reach the back of the stove. And if it did, the velocity would have to be so high that the fire would burn uncontrollably. The F118 has some of that going on.

    Download the PDF manual and take a look at the exploded parts diagram. Look at part #35 at 200-300% magnification, they call it a "Valve Holder for Front Door", an almost meaningless name. It is really the front door primary air manifold. Look at the holes in the manifold. When you open the front air control, it shoots 4 jets of air at the base of the fire right down the middle of the firebox. That's their attempt to get some front air toward the back of the box. Also look at #87, the primary air inlets at the back of the firebox.

    When looking at this, keep in mind the firebox is only about 7" x 7" x 24". This alone kinda blurs the distinction between primary and secondary air...

    Another thing that hasn't been mentioned is how much fun it is splitting 24" lengths of wood down to the 3" to 4" diameter that the stove requires...

    Attached Files:

  17. Rob From Wisconsin

    Rob From Wisconsin Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2005
    Messages:
    531
    Loc:
    East-Central Wisconsin
    All this talk about "true" North-South burn cigar-type stoves has me wondering,
    is the Morso 2B and others true N/S?? Is the Jotul 602 a rare breed??
  18. Chettt

    Chettt Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2007
    Messages:
    267
    Loc:
    Western Michigan
    I love the looks of the Jotul but that small mouth would drive me crazy. Still want one though because it looks so cool.
  19. precaud

    precaud Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2006
    Messages:
    2,293
    Loc:
    Sunny New Mexico
    See the attached pic, the Morso 2B has primary air at the bottom-rear too. Not as aggressive as the F118 but there nonetheless.

    The F602 has no primary or secondary air in the rear 1/3 of the firebox, and as a consequence there is no combustion back there. I've documented that pretty thoroughly here in my past F602 experiments.

    Attached Files:

    • 2b-3.jpg
      2b-3.jpg
      File size:
      20.3 KB
      Views:
      1,707
  20. NH_Wood

    NH_Wood Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2009
    Messages:
    2,602
    Loc:
    southern NH
    I'm with oldspark - this is the year to spend a little extra, making use of the tax credit, and get the best stove you can afford. The Woodstock stove will be geting pretty close to your price with the tax credit and possible sales. Plus, you want to think about the following decades of wood burning - from what others have indicated that own this stove, you will burn relatively little wood in the Fireview, and get a lot of lasting heat. Your house sounds the right size for one. You'll be happier down the road with less worry about stocking up on serious amounds of firewood. Just my 2 cents. Cheers!
  21. REF1

    REF1 Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    265
    Loc:
    South West, VA
    precaud, I can see from the picture what you mean. Burning the candle at both ends. I guess that makes it a N/S, S/N burn.

    I'm not a betting man, but I would wager more air surges through the door than in the back, just by looking at the path the air takes.
  22. jeffee

    jeffee New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2007
    Messages:
    143
    Loc:
    Western Ma

    I call bs on this ..
  23. EatenByLimestone

    EatenByLimestone Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2006
    Messages:
    4,845
    Loc:
    Schenectady, NY
    Ok, supply your measurements.


    Matt
  24. Battenkiller

    Battenkiller Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3,732
    Loc:
    Just Outside the Blue Line
    Well, I can see from the diagram that they changed the inside of the old 118 to fit in the secondary tubes and all. Still, I don't think they changed the basic dimensions of the box itself. I went outside and measure my old Scandia. Even the door is bigger than 7"x7". Mine is about 7" across and 8 1/2" tall. The inside of the box is about 10"x10"x26". One year I tried to use 24" splits to get an all-night burn out of a stove that wasn't designed for one. What a PITA! I went back to 18" and the stove worked better. Never had a problem loading 5-6 fair size splits (4-5") on top of a 3" bed of coals. But stoves like that really benefit from very straight splits. Ash and cherry usually split pretty straight, and that stove ate mostly those two woods for its entire 18 year run in my basement.
  25. EatenByLimestone

    EatenByLimestone Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2006
    Messages:
    4,845
    Loc:
    Schenectady, NY
    Does the new stove have firebrick around the box? If the bricks were 1 1/2" thick they would eat up that 3 inches.

    Matt and not doubting... I just haven't seen one of the new stoves.

Share This Page