Jotul Kennebec c450 fan noise?

[Oregon Fire]

I have been running my new stove for a few weeks now and noticed that the fan is making a mechanical noise that is like a bearing or a clearance issue... But it is intermittent.

Before I call out the dealer - and, of course, not have it happen while they are here...

I was wondering...

1. Is there anything that can be lubricated on the assembly?
2. Is there anything that I can check in regards to the installation of the fan that might be need correction?
3. How much noise emanates from your jotul c450? Should I just get used to it?

thanks,
jeff

 

[Mike Wilson]

On low, mine is hardly noticeable unless you are right next to the stove. On high, you can hear it, but it sounds like a normal fan blowing air. I've never heard a mechanical noise out of it, but it does occasionally suck up whatever is laying directly in front of the opening. I'd pull the fan, blow it out, trip the snapstat and run it in the open to see if you can duplicate the noise. If you can't, look in where the fan goes and see if anything is in the way. Then reinstall it ans see what happens. If it continues, have them replace the fan under warranty.

-- Mike

 

[boostnut]

I agree, mine sounds just like mike described as well. Take it apart, blow it out and re-install. Good luck, Aaron

 

[Oregon Fire]

Thanks guys. Something is definitely amiss with mine then - it makes more of this specific noise when on low. I'll follow your guys recommendations and then contact the dealer if I can't fix it.

I absolutely love the stove, it is gorgeous and the flame front is beautiful. I am glad they started supplying the fan standard - I can't imagine running it without it.

I have the rutland stove thermometer installed in the "mike wilson location". I have seen it jump up to 650-675 a couple of times - but from reading here, I don't really have to worry about overfire until it is higher than that, right?

thanks again guys.
jeff

 

[Mike Wilson]

Pffft... 675 is normal for me. I don't even start worrying until we are northward bound from 750 or so. I've had it into the 800s, all I do is close down the air some more (at this point it usually doesn't even matter, as it is almost all secondary air), and flip the fan on high. Warms the room up super fast, and cools her down into the 700 range in no time.



-- Mike

 

[Oregon Fire]

Pffft... 675 is normal for me. I don't even start worrying until we are northward bound from 750 or so. I've had it into the 800s, all I do is close down the air some more (at this point it usually doesn't even matter, as it is almost all secondary air), and flip the fan on high. Warms the room up super fast, and cools her down into the 700 range in no time.



-- Mike

It worried me because I saw the rutland stove thermometer say over 600 is overfire?? conservative?

jeff

 

[begreen]

I'm not sure where Rutland got their zone limits for their thermometers, but yes, they are more than conservative. For many stoves they are just wrong.

 

[Oregon Fire]

On the lower end - I run 450-500. Is this okay?

Sorry for the newbie questions - just getting the hang of it.

thanks,
jeff

 

[begreen]

Yes, that is fine for lower end.

I should qualify the thermometer issue. It really depends on the stove. On many stoves you can place it right on the stove top and get a steady 550-650 reading. But on other stoves, there may not be a good location on the top. There may be a trivet or grille that blocks direct placement on the stove top. In these cases one may need to read off the trivet or the front of the stove. The temp might be lower there than if you could get a good reading directly off the same stove's top. In that case, the Rutland temperature zones might be closer to correct for that particular stove.

 

[Mike Wilson]

I ignore the burn zones on the Rutland thermometer and just use it for temperatures. I get secondary starting at 450, better at 500. Where I have it located it is on the actual stove surface, so it gives a good temperature read. I do wonder if the fan on hifh effects the reading there though.

-- Mike

 

[awasner]

Hi, well this thread went from fan noise problems to over firing temp questions, how about we go back to fan noise problems?

I have a new Jotul 450. The first fan would only come on after about 3 or 4 hours of a good hot fire, so the dealer replaced it. When the fan DID finally come on there was a noise like a ticking, rattling kind of rolling around loose noise like a bearing, but it wasn't that bad a noise.

Then the dealer replaced it and the new fan comes on after 25 minutes of a good hot fire. But now on low it sounds like a high pitched piercing whistle, and on high it sounds like a garbage truck unloading in my living room.

The Jotul dealer is Groth Gates in Newport, Oregon. Their tech said "Well, this is just how the fans are".
So I decided to not fight it, and try it for a week. I was hoping the fan would perhaps get better over time.
It's gotten only much worse.
I called the dealer and he said "that's just how they are" but he is willing to send someone out to look at it. I'm not sure how looking at it will help.

So I called Jotul. Their phone numbers are well hidden. The 207-797-5912 number does work. Also Mark Lewis is a tech support guy at 207-591-6618, and the tech support extension main number is 207-591-6601 with extension 118. Courteous messages left at those numbers 4 days ago have resulted in no call back.

I asked the dealer about no responses from Jotul and they said "we have the same problem".

So the Jotul stove is absolutely great but they have these cheap fans that are extremely poor, either don't work or make awful noises.
Fan technology has come a long way in the USA in the last 50 years, and I've worked around many large fans for years that make almost no noise at all, work for decades in continuous use with no maintenance.

There is no reason Jotul with their fine stoves should be using such cheap junk fans.
I can only hope I don't need to spend too many more hours on the phone trying to get this fixed. They say they guarentee their products but they don't answer the phone nor call you back.

 

[boostnut]

No fan noises to report here. Mine is nearly whisper quiet on low and loud enough on high to make you turn the tv up, but no rattles or squeaks to report. My suggestion would be to pull the fan assembly (remove ash lip, unplug fan, pull fan assembly straight out) and make sure ALL of the hardware securing the sheetmetal and fan is tight. That light gauge sheet metal can make some crazy noises if its not held together correctly. Run it while its disassembled and if you still have any odd sounds take it to the dealer. Let him try to tell you its "normal" as it clangs and bangs on his counter.

BTW Oregon, 450-500 is the range mine sees regularly. I actually will run mine cooler (300-400) when I'm not home but that results in black glass in a matter of hours. Each home will have different heating requirements, keep an eye on your thermometer and you'll have it figured out in no time.

 

[Oregon Fire]

alan -
My noise quiet'ed down as the fans broke in. It still makes a little noise sometimes - but I think I will let it go a little longer. Sometimes it will be a little 'screechy" when cold - but quiets down fairly quickly. I did notice that mine can pull debris into it quite easily. I tried removing the ash lip to clean it out - but I couldn't pull it away easily and will leave it for the dealer to show me how to get it off with me bending or breaking something.

If I were you - I would see what it takes to clear the fans of debris for your unit. Vacuum or blow them out with compressed air etc.

Bottom line - mine is much better now, it might need replacement, but I am not sure yet and will "let it ride" for a while.

Boostnut -

I was burning oak early in the season. It definitely burns hotter than my fir/maple mix that is okay, but could use a little more seasoning to be perfect. I now run about 450-500 most the time too. Not sure whether it is because I figured out a good "loading technique" or whether it is related to the fuel. I do top down fire on the first load and then switch to a routine of raking coals to front, stacking three logs to back, then I put an indentation in the coals right in front of the air supply and throw a medium size log in front. This gets a flame going on the backside of the front log and it feeds the 'wall' of logs in the back.

----
I do love this stove. But, I do need to work on insulating the home better - it is a '52 ranch house and needs more insulation in the roof and some of the walls still have none. One advantage is that it is an open floorplan on one story - the heat is distributed about the house fairly well. At 2300 square feet, I was surprised by this.

Also, whenever I get it apart to check it for debris - I will also try adding a little more rubber mounting to the housing to dampen out the oscillations, etc

jeff

 

[awasner]

Thanks for the good advice.

 

[stoveguy13]

Hi, well this thread went from fan noise problems to over firing temp questions, how about we go back to fan noise problems?


The Jotul dealer is Groth Gates in Newport, Oregon. Their tech said "Well, this is just how the fans are".
So I decided to not fight it, and try it for a week. I was hoping the fan would perhaps get better over time.
It's gotten only much worse.
I called the dealer and he said "that's just how they are" but he is willing to send someone out to look at it. I'm not sure how looking at it will help.

I would not agree with your dealer or there tech we are one of the largest Jotul dealers in North America and i can count on one hand the issues and complaints we have had about the blowers.

 

[Oregon Fire]

alan,
By the way, I am more than a bit envious of your 550 - they weren't making it when I made my buy decision. I like the one piece door and the larger firebox. I had some shorter gloves and kept burning my arm on the two piece door of my 450. Now I have some gloves that go all the way up past my elbow - found 'em on e-bay and they are very nice.

I thought the 550 came with a variable speed fan setup? I sometimes switch my fan to low to let the firebox get up to a more efficient temp and then switch it back to high after it gets up there...

I have no regrets about getting our Jotul, and am thinking of buying another for our second fireplace - and am looking at the 550... It is a work of art, has a beautiful flamefront and heats the home well. I am fairly mechanical and can see that this unit will provide many years of service and maybe my daughter's lifetime too...

jeff

 

[jgoodnow]

I'm a new Kennebec owner, and have had absolutely no trouble with the fan. In fact, sometimes it is hard to know when it has come on in the low setting because the noise gets lost in the background noise of the house. You would not fail to notice the noise on the high setting, however. So I'd say you have a bad fan, fan assembly, or some foreign material that shouldn't be there.

I also noticed how hard it is to find Jotul's phone number. I found it via Google but I didn't call it. Clearly they want you to funnel all your feedback through your dealer. It is still disappointing that their customer support person won't return your phone call though. That is poor form. They should call you back even if it's just to tell you that you must go through your dealer.

I have not had my insert much above 500 degrees with the Rutland thermometer in the "Mike Wilson" location. I have also not yet had my firebox over half full. I am awed by Mike Wilson's reports of 8 hour burns. I am nowhere near that. I am also stuck in the mode of adding a couple of logs every hour or so, instead of filling the firebox full and leaving it alone. Thanks in advance for any tips on exactly how to do that with a Kennebec.

 

[eernest4]

All these posts and no one mentioned oiling the fan motor bearings?????

Unelse they are sealed ball beaings, fan motor bearings need to be oiled & even "sealed"
ball bearings can be oiled if you carefully pick the seal open on some motors, at least.

Many "sealed" ball bearings really are not totally sealed & you can get wd 40 or sae 5w30
in there to lub the ball bearing.

Cheaper fans use bronze bushings with felt washers to retain the lub oil & some motors have oiling holes in the end bells above the bearings.

I am so suprised no one mentioned oiling the fan motor bearings, weather they be bronze bushings or ball bearings.

Last month my craftsman table saw motor, 3400 rpm 2 hp capacator start , belt drive to the saw, (a relic from 1960) started to get bearing noise to the point where I was begining to
worry about bearing failure and replacement.

So, I got P.O.ed at the motor & took the bearing plate screws off & picked out the bearing seals and applied sae10w 40 to both front & rear bearings.

Now is 20 hrs of run time later on the saw & the bearings are queiter than when i first got the saw, used ,back in 1972.

I did the same with a black & decker electric drill & a B&D;sander. I carefully split the case
halves & without taking anything appart inside , oiled the front & rear bronze bushings.

Both the drill & the sander were putting up a squeal when running, an abnormal noise & both are running well & quietly now.

Am I the only person that oils motor bearings ??

A lot of times you can do a lot of good just by using the red tube that comes with the wd 40 can & squerting the crap out of the general vicinity of the motor shaft & bearings. Some of that light oil will penetrate and restore lub to the bearings.

It does not always work for every motor but it usually works for most motors.

Bottom line , you can squirt & pray that it gets in to the bearings or you can disassemble & lub with a 5w30, 10w 30 sae 30 or 10 w40 & reasemble.

You should always check out this possibility before replacing a fan motor or electric power tool.


**************************************************************************
I have 3 electric weed wackers that neighbors throw out in the garbage that the motors were
overheating & screeching from lack of oil for the bearings. I sprayed the crap out of them with wd40 & soaked the general vacinity of the motor shaft & bearings with 30 wieght oil & let them sit soaking wet with oil overnight.
(not imersed in oil but but with oil dripping out of the motor from the oil can.)

That was 2003, 5 years ago, & all 3 of them still run for me & wack weeds. They still overheat after 15 or 20 minutes of use, in really heavy 1 ft tall grass, but I just grab the next weed wacker to use while the first one cools off & with 3 of them, I can keep going until the job is done. I still oil the bearings before every use as these machines were somewhat damaged or very nearly ruined, by their original owners lack of maintainance.

So thats what is up with that.

 

[awasner]

I would not agree with your dealer or there tech we are one of the largest Jotul dealers in North America and i can count on one hand the issues and complaints we have had about the blowers.

Hi, yes I am sure you are correct. The technology of fans is advanced and well understood, fans usually work for very long periods with no problems.

I just finally got called by a Jotul tech support person. He said it was likely installed less than 100% correctly. But fans can be defective.

The Jotul tech support person said to me, "all fans make noise". I didn't want to argue with him but this is completely false. I have been around very small to very large fans that moved huge amounts of air, ran 24 hours day for years, and the only sound you heard was air moving. The fans were totally silent. Cheap fans like those in bathroom ceiling fans make noise. Usually good quality fans are soundless, like the fans in most cars. In all the cars I've ever owned the only sound the fan made was air moving, unless it was loose in it's mounting or had a cracked blade. Computer fans are very quiet as well, and fans in Cray supercomputers also are extremely efficient and very quiet. For stove to ever have any fan that makes noise just means they have cheap fans.

 

[awasner]

alan,
By the way, I am more than a bit envious of your 550 - they weren't making it when I made my buy decision. I like the one piece door and the larger firebox. I had some shorter gloves and kept burning my arm on the two piece door of my 450. Now I have some gloves that go all the way up past my elbow - found 'em on e-bay and they are very nice.

I thought the 550 came with a variable speed fan setup? I sometimes switch my fan to low to let the firebox get up to a more efficient temp and then switch it back to high after it gets up there...

I have no regrets about getting our Jotul, and am thinking of buying another for our second fireplace - and am looking at the 550... It is a work of art, has a beautiful flamefront and heats the home well. I am fairly mechanical and can see that this unit will provide many years of service and maybe my daughter's lifetime too...

jeff

I wanted to mention that I do really like our Jotul. The only problem we have is the noisy fan. And I've burned myself very slightly, too, being careless and not wearing the "fire gloves" that I got at Ace Hardware for 11$.

 

[boostnut]

Therm, load that thing up and let it do its job! 8 hours is nothing, load it FULL with good oak and i wouldn't be a bit suprised to hear you report 10+ hours. I load mine at 6:00 am every day and generally dont come home until 4:00 to 4:30 pm and the fan is still running at least 4 out of 5 days a week. Yes, I choke the air down all the way after charring the initial load and the result is discolored glass BUT you can't beat my natural gas bill with a stick! When I get home it gets reloaded and burned around 500F for a few hours which usually cleans the doors up nicely. Get your moneys worth out of it and if you're unsure about long burn times while you're away from home than experiment on your days off. Good luck!

 

[jgoodnow]

boostnut, thanks for the info. If you don't mind I have a few additional questions:
1. How many door openings until you have the stove fully loaded? One to build and light a kindling fire and one more to load it up, or something else?
2. What is the temperature of the stove (Mike Wilson thermometer location) when you a) fully load the stove, and b) start to cut back the air?

I know this thread is about fan noise. Sorry about the thread drift.

 

[boostnut]

Therm, if I start with a cold stove I usually only open the doors twice. First time is for kindling and a few small splits on top of the kindling. After the small splits burn good and hot for a couple of minutes open the doors again, load the bigger pieces until the firebox is full, run the air wide open until I hit at least 400 degrees (prefer about 500). Now close the air down a little more than half way and you should see the secondary combustion at the top of the firebox. After a couple of minutes cut the air off and walk away. I know, the process can vary because of wood, chimney, house......... but this should get you started. The key (to me) is not to have to do this every day. Keep the stove warm at all times and you dont have to fool with kindling and wait for the stove to heat up and fans to kick on. Get your burn times stretched out and it will make the whole process much easier. Good luck, Aaron