Jotul Kennebec C450 Questions.

[Oregon Fire]

I think we have narrowed our fireplace insert choice down to the jotul kennebec. The local dealer has a display model that he will knock 20% off... seems fair and the installation quote is in line with what I see here.

A couple of questions - okay more than a couple...

1. With the insert mounted flush - I will have 16 inches of hearth in front of the glass (it projects 2.5 inches onto hearth). The manual states that 18 inches in required. I have read here that u.s. code is 16 inches and canadian code is 18 inches. Since I am in the u.s. I am thinking that 16 inch clearance is sufficient and I can safely ignor the manual? right? Or should I take the time to extend the hearth?

2. The stove can be mounted protruding outward about 7 inches (from flush). This seems advantageous in terms of heat output - convective air flow. But I would have to extend my hearth. I noticed most in the photo gallery had theirs mounted flush and it looked really nice - my thoughts are that having it "out" will detract from the cast iron look of the fronts - any thoughts?

3. I want it to pull outside air for the combustion air supply. You can run 3" flex off back of stove for this. For outside air supply should I have them run flex up to the chimney cap or drill a hole in the masonry? Any advantages or disadvantages to either option?


4. The surround has "jotul" stamped on it, but the ones I see in the photo gallery are plain. I am thinking the jotul stamped one is for "floor display" and I should ask for a "production one". Sound right?

thanks,
jeff

 

[Oregon Fire]

bump - shortened post to specify issues that are specific to this model of jotul fireplace insert.

thanks,
jeff

 

[Mike Wilson]

Answers, in order:

1- US code is 16, Canadian is 18, Jotul sells to the "North American" market, and specifies 18...I called and asked. To pass an inspection, technically, you need 18... mind you, that's a 20.5 inch hearth from the front, as the surround and stove use up 2.5 inches of space. Legally, you need 18 inches... legally.

2- I have mine flush, works very well with the fan on low. I think its more of an aesthetic thing than anything else... do you want to see the stove sticking out from the fireplace or not. In my house, I thought it would look bad. See the photo link below.

3- Unless your home is very new and basically airtight, skip it. You'd have to cut a 3" hole through masonry... for not so much benefit.

4- Nope. I think the earlier ones did not say Jotul, the later ones do. Mine just finished its 3rd season, and says Jotul in the upper right. Mine is Jotul Iron color.

Any other questions, ask away... we need to piss the PE guys off somehow

-- Mike

 

[jjbaer]

I think we have narrowed our fireplace insert choice down to the jotul kennebec. The local dealer has a display model that he will knock 20% off... seems fair and the installation quote is in line with what I see here.

What's the price after the 20% off and do you get a blower?

1. With the insert mounted flush - I will have 16 inches of hearth in front of the glass (it projects 2.5 inches onto hearth). The manual states that 18 inches in required. I have read here that u.s. code is 16 inches and canadian code is 18 inches. Since I am in the u.s. I am thinking that 16 inch clearance is sufficient and I can safely ignor the manual? right? Or should I take the time to extend the hearth?

Ok...do as I say (16" in front of the front most part of the stove) and not as I do......a bit closer than 16" on mine. I think this is based on two things: 1) a safe distance in front of floors in case a hot log rolls out and 2) so that heat doesn't propagate through the hearth material and out to the combustible floor..... My hearth in front of the fireplace opening is a concrete cantilevered section with crawl space beneath it and the temp even 3" in front of the stove is "stone cold".......but, follow the regs.

2. The stove can be mounted protruding outward about 7 inches (from flush). This seems advantageous in terms of heat output - convective air flow. But I would have to extend my hearth. I noticed most in the photo gallery had theirs mounted flush and it looked really nice - my thoughts are that having it "out" will detract from the cast iron look of the fronts - any thoughts?

Mine is mounted "back most"...i.e., with only the 2.5" sticking out and it looks nice but, as stated by Mike, it's a matter of taste.....

3. I want it to pull outside air for the combustion air supply. You can run 3" flex off back of stove for this. For outside air supply should I have them run flex up to the chimney cap or drill a hole in the masonry? Any advantages or disadvantages to either option?

I thought of this same thing.....knocking a hole in the masonry but I think code only allows you to remove bricks around the damper area to let the liner pass through....Elk would know...... Also considered going "up" but decided to let it pull room air.........hasn't been a problem....... To tell if your house is too tight and if the stove is "air starved" you can fire up the stove and have someone open a window and watch the flame to see if it increases much and/or if the heat output increases. This would indicate your home is too tight and then you might want to consider outside air....

4. The surround has "Jotul" stamped on it, but the ones I see in the photo gallery are plain. I am thinking the jotul stamped one is for "floor display" and I should ask for a "production one". Sound right?

Mine is only 4 months old and it too has Jotul stamped on it.

 

[Oregon Fire]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the quick response.

Discounted price is $1900 - no sales tax in oregon , I don't think it is the standard color - it might be blue/black. Listed as including fan...

I was looking at supply air for efficiency purposes - the house was built in 1954 and is definitely "not tight"... I will go with standard setup - thanks. Getting some fresh air exchange in the house probably woudn't be a bad thing...

I think it looks much better in the standard position - 2.5 inches protruding from surround. Thanks for your comments - I will go with this setup too.

I will take another look at the hearth - I think it is 18 and a half inches. I can probably "get by" with it - but don't want to have any issues with the insurance company if the place burns down - so I'll re-work the hearth. (my brother had his house halfway burn down last year due to an improperly mounted barbeque grill - not enough clearance. Given his experience, I think you are much better off if your house burns down completely! My house was previously remodeled - the last time I was under my house, I remember seeing some "rock board" from underneath the hearth.

The BTU ratings vary so much on the stoves I have been looking at - I will be adding "supplemental heat" to my 2200 square foot ranch home built in 1954. It will be located in a living room at the center of the house - 22 feet square with a ceiling fan. 3 bedrooms to the west of this room. 24 feet square family room with ceiling fan to the east of this room. I live in a moderate climate - 30-40 degree wintertime low temps. House isn't well insulated now - but I will be adding a bunch this year...

What can I expect in terms of heating? What are you guys heating with your jotul c450s?

thanks again!,
jeff

 

[jjbaer]

Hi guys,

What can I expect in terms of heating? What are you guys heating with your jotul c450s?

thanks again!,
jeff

I live near Dayton, OH and I'm heating a 1650 sq ft ranch, built in 1952, well insulated, 3BR, LR, DR, FR, kitchen. My stove is just supplemental due to the hours I'm home but when it's running, the furnace is completely off and the stove keeps things nice and warm. First thing I'd invest in is a $12 Rutland magnetic "disk" thermometer (Mike Wilson told me about those) to help prevent over firing. See my stove rating, #2014 on the ratings page for additional information.

 

[Mike Wilson]

$1900 with the blower is a steal, buy it. I am heating one of three zones in my house with the Kennebec, about 1700 sq/ft, but with high ceilings... as in, some are 34' high. I get a very consistent 8 hours between reloading, and it runs 24/7 for about three months. Make certain you have a 6" liner in your chimney, its essential, and makes the stove operate like a machine, a real pleasure. Get the thermometer... I'll send you photos of where to put it. Mine tends to cruise at 650 degrees, then 600 for a while, then down from there. Any questions, feel free to ask.

-- Mike

 

[elkimmeg]

There are manufactured Hearth extention pads that may fit your situation. I believe they are about 1' by 4' Added protection from burning enbers is not a bad idea.

Outside air maybe a requirement by your state, Oregon, so check with the local permitting dept

Finally, Jotul a superior quality stove Manufacturer, and the price quoted is very fair, even if a year or so old.

 

[Oregon Fire]

Thanks guys - I did the deal this morning. The stove is a display model - but has never had a fire built in it - so it is essentially new. The stove was mis-quoted as it was actually blue-black enamel - which is more; Just curiious is it more durable? Why the extra cost? they stood behind their original quote just the same - nice guys...

The install did end up a bit more than I expected - stainless double wall hard pipe isn't cheap....

The fresh air is not required in oregon. I will be pulling room air for the supply...

For the hearth - it is slate tile and abutts the hardwood floor (flush). I have done hardwood flooring and tile - so I will add a border all the way around to extend it to just beyond the spec'ed amount - 20.5 inches.

Installer comes monday morning to scope it out. A few parts are on order with jotul - extended surround, etc...

thanks again for the collective help. I'll post a photo as soon as it is installed. It looks like the blue/black enamel will look great with the dark slate 12" tiles that are used on my fireplace.

jeff

 

[begreen]

Congratulations Jeff. You'll love the blue-black enamel, it's my favorite and Jotul does a great job with the finish. I think you'll find it's much easier to keep clean and looking good, year after year.

 

[Oregon Fire]

That's good to hear. Thanks.

The installer will come monday to look over my chimney and layout, etc. I took a look at the top of my chimney after work - I have a feeling I am going to have to have some masonry cleanup prior to moving forward... :-(

Was thinking about my wood supply for this winter - without a seaon under my belt - it's hard to judge how much wood to buy. I am picking up some wood now so that it will dry through the summer. I will have 3-4 cords of hardwood to start out. If I run out - is it okay to burn compressed logs (pres-to-logs) in this baby? I don't like buying "seasoned" wood in the middle of winter - seems like it is rarely dry...

I have always been a big pyromaniac with the fireplace - the stove takes it to a whole new level - heat, yeah baby!

Thanks again to all...

jeff

 

[begreen]

How large a place are you heating and which side of the Cascades are you on? On the west side of the mtns. we're heating an old 2000 sq ft farmhouse on about 2.5 cords of wood + supplemental heat from a heat pump.

 

[Oregon Fire]

I am in portland - so weather is similar to western washington - a little bit colder sometimes with cold air dumping back through the columbia gorge from eastern oregon and wash... Thanks for the response on wood usage. These new stoves sure go a long way on a little bit of wood...

thanks again.
jeff

 

[Mike Wilson]

FYI, I burn about 3 cord per season, basically 1 cord per month of 24/7 use.

-- Mike

 

[Gooserider]

Remember that wood keeps, and many will say 2 yr old wood is better than one year old, so it might make sense to get on the high side for this season and then cut back on the resupply later as you gain more experience. It is also worth noting that many new stove people report burning more wood than normal for the first month or so until they get the best burning practices for their setup down.

Gooserider

 

[begreen]

I agree in principle, but in the NW, not if it's alder. Unless alder is kept dry, it can be garbage by year two.

 

[titan]

Alder???How big do WA. alder trees grow?Around here they never seem any more than 3 to 4" in diameter and they are so wet I think it would take 3 years to dry 'em.

 

[Oregon Fire]

Alder???How big do WA. alder trees grow?Around here they never seem any more than 3 to 4" in diameter and they are so wet I think it would take 3 years to dry 'em.

Alder trees grow quite well in the northwest and are everywhere. They get to 16"-24" in diameter pretty quickly. It is very wet when initially cut but dries out quickly.

jeff

 

[Oregon Fire]

Sorry - I still had one remaning question..

Is it okay to burn compressed wood firelogs in this fireplace insert? (e.g. pres-to-logs).??

thanks,
jeff

 

[elkimmeg]

Be green has a wiki section on burning alternative compressed logs. I think you should read it and make your decision. Yes some logs can be burned with caution

Personally I have burn a few and I hate the wax binder type I will not burn them again

 

[begreen]

Yes, alders get very big out here. A single mature tree will be 60'+ tall and as noted, 18-24" in diameter. I don't know what that equates to in cords, but I would guess 2-3. The wood is easy to split and dries fairly quickly, maybe 9 months after splitting if it's kept covered on the top and well off the ground.

 

[begreen]

Yes, alders get very big out here. A single mature tree will be 60'+ tall and as noted, 18-24" in diameter. I don't know what that equates to in cords, but I would guess 2-3. The wood is easy to split and dries fairly quickly, maybe 9 months after splitting if it's kept covered on the top and well off the ground.

I don't see why you couldn't burn pressed logs in the 450. But like Elk says, avoid the waxed logs like Duraflame. Stick with ones that are simply densely pressed sawdust. I wasn't as satisfied with the cheaper pressed logs. They expand too much and burn too quickly. But the premium, densely compressed logs are impressive. In your stove I would not burn more than 4 at a time, especially until you get to know the stove well. There's a lot of energy in these logs. They'll burn more intensely than you might think.

In your area there are several manufacturers. We had a posting earlier for Bear Mtn. pressed logs where the user was pleased with them. I haven't had a chance to try them, but they're made close to Portland. I believe the Northern Idaho logs and the Homefires Prest logs are also sold in Portland.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/6772/

Here's a link to the Wiki entry:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/Category:Fuels/

 

[Mike Wilson]

I've heard its best to mix the compressed logs with regular splits... technically I think Jotul advises against using them altogether, but that's probably for moron protection more than anything else. Whatever you do, don't use the wax ones.

-- Mike

 

[Oregon Fire]

We now have our jotul 450 installed. Thanks to all for the great advice.

And yes, I'll post pics tonite!

Mike - sent you a PM to ask for your thermometer mounting photos...

thanks,
jeff

p.s. I am so glad I bought this stove - it is so much better looking than the PE.
p.p.s Mike - Do you think that will piss off the PE guys like you wanted?

 

[stoveguy13]

Jotul put out a Tech bulliten back a couple of months ago that stated it void the warranty if anything but cord wood was used so just becarful with the compressed stuff i have had some that really didnot burn well and some that seemed almost uncontrollable