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Jotul Rep Input..

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by vegemom, Nov 1, 2007.

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  1. vegemom

    vegemom New Member

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    I am having a Jotul 550c Rockland insert installed in a few weeks, but the unit is not due to be released until 11/15 and there is no installation (or other) info on the website, my dealer does not have a manual for it, and I'm 'winging it' a little more than I'd like. I am going to have an electrician install an outlet for the blower, but I don't know where inside the box the outlet should go, and we have no wiggle room.. this unit fits the fireplace opening (side to side) with about an inch to spare.

    Also, the surround is 30" high, which happens to be the height of my current fireplace opening, so the dealer suggested just bringing the tile down an inch or two, but my Dad suggested the tiles may get chipped off when the unit goes in and thought it might be better to raise the unit an inch or two instead. I would appreciatre any suggestions.. and if the consensus is to raise the unit, some input as to how best achieve this, given the 500 pound weight of the insert.

    Finally, I chiseled off the old tile on the surround and hearth, and plan to re-tile with Mexican Talavera tiles. The old tiles were adhered directly on the brick.. is that okay to repeat? I am also extending the hearth and those tiles were also adhered directly to some type of brick, but it seems more like brick facing (it's about an inch thick).. if I can find the same product, would this be okay to use for the extension?

    I plan to run all of my questions by my installer and the guys/gals at my local home store, but I have been very impressed with the wealth of knowledge on this site and thought being armed with some good info would help me filter the varying pieces of advice I am bound to get. My husband thinks we should hire someone to do the tile and hearth, but with 4k into it for the unit (with liner, installation, etc) I would love to save the additional labor costs and have the satisfaction of doing it ourselves.. and with good advice I think we can do it well. Thank you in advance for any advice/suggestions you can give me! Anjanette

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  2. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    you NEED a manual....for instance, you may discover that the wood on the sides and top is too close! You don't want that to happen AFTER the unit is paid for and delivered. If the unit is really coming out in two weeks, the manual DOES exist, and your dealer can get it by PDF. The manual must exist for the testing, which was probably done long ago - and the label also, which is certainly printed by now (hopefully)......

    Did your dealer inspect your setup?

    One question I can answer now - it is OK to flue other tiles on the brick - use "thinset" mortar, not the "mastic" glue.

    In my opinion, the wood mantel is the main thing you should be "armed" with in your Q and A at the dealers.

    Hope this helps.
  3. vegemom

    vegemom New Member

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    Thank you for the input on the thinset.. and I will see if my dealer has a PDF of the manual (there advice was to wait, since I will get one with my unit!). The unit is in the Jotul printed product manual (though not on their website), and they do show the clearances..if they do not change anything, we're fine on the unit to wood clearances . When I went to the dealer initially I had a photo of the fireplace with every measurement I could think of written on it, and when they sent someone out to verify my measurements, that is all he did - check my measurements. I was hoping they would send an installer who could give me advice on the things I noted above, but they sent someone from the office who could wield a tape measure. :smirk: Oh well.. lucky for me I found this site while I was still shopping, making it less likely that I will be blown off by the dealer whe I go back for things - like a manual!
  4. kjklosek

    kjklosek New Member

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    The mantle does not look like too much of an issue to me.

    For a wood burning fire place it looks like it just meets code, which was 1/8" projection for each 1" from the firebox. Then no restrictions once you were 12" from the firebox opening on top and 8" on the sides.

    However codes are different from county to county and city to city. And I was a finish carpenter 5 years ago so I have not kept up with code changes or the new IRC.

    Can you call Jotul customer service to get an answer?

    For the electrical, can you just pull the wire up and drill the hole once the unit arrives. Leaving enough wire, like 3' or so, to hook up the blower?

    Lastly, you can have the tile on hand for the surround and use it as a spacer when setting the unit. Then tile around it after it is installed.

    J.P.
  5. wiltend

    wiltend New Member

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    I ordered a Jotul Rockland insert in July (so I could avoid the fall rush) and was told it was to be shipped in August. Then it became September, then October, now it is end of November or early December IF I AM LUCKY! so I cancelled it and am now putting in a free standing 600 firelight. Their other inserts were too small and I decided against the quad 5100 just based on the looks and complaints of short burn times. Couldn't wait any longer and couldn't rely on distributors promises to the dealer. It is not even on their web site and the printed materials you were given were given to me in July so be ready for a long wait, unless you get lucky. Came very close to a Hearthstone Mansfield. Real nice stove. Still second guessing the insert vs free standing, soapstone vs cast iron, but I always second guess everything I obsess over. Good luck and beware.
  6. vegemom

    vegemom New Member

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    Ugh.. I knew about the previous delays, so when I go to the dealer to get a copy of the installation manual I will also get a direct number for Jotul customer service so I can keep tabs on the estimated delivery date (last I was told was around 11/15/07). I went back and forth between the Rockland and a comparable Quad unit that bumped out a little with three glass panels (can't recall the model # now, but it was a nice looking unit with a firebox box just slightly smaller than the Rockland firebox), but in the end the only way the Quad would work was without the surround trim, and I really disliked the look of the flat black panel trim.. so I went with the Jotul. I've been hoping to get to a place where I feel I've made the right decision.. not there yet. On the plus side, the Mexican Talavera tile I ordered arrived today, and it's just what I wanted - too bad it doesn't install itself! :lol:
  7. vegemom

    vegemom New Member

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    SmokinJoe:

    Re: the blower.. can you tell me where the outlet goes? I was thinking it would be set into the firebox, but perhaps the hole is drilled through the firebox into the basement below, then the outlet itself is mounted in the basement ceiling?? Perhaps a MANUAL would show me.. I cannot believe I let the dealer blow me off when I told them I wanted it. I plan to visit the dealer tomorrow to get a PDF of the manual, specifics re: the outlet for the blower, and a telephone number for Jotul costomer service so I can keep track of my insert - my wood was delivered yesterday and it's starting to get chilly here in Eastern Pennsylvania!
  8. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    As a code official I would have a problem with drilling the fire box and installing a plug in there
  9. vegemom

    vegemom New Member

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    Where does it go?? I don't want a cord run across the front of the fireplace and plugged into the adjacent wall. What options do I have?
  10. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    I think you have to run the cord to the side. You can certainly make up a little trim of metal or something else to cover it, but I can understand how installing an outlet there would not be to code. The cord comes out a certain way and must run away from the unit. It is not designed to turn back around and plug into an outlet, etc.
  11. vegemom

    vegemom New Member

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    Interesting, since the dealer told me to 'just call an electrician to drill into the firebox' so I don't have to run it across the floor. I wonder if THAT is covered in the MANUAL that they couldn't give me?? I'm missing my (blowerless) BIS II unit.. :grrr:
  12. Shane

    Shane Minister of Fire

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    Inspectors here always let electricians do that with pellet and gas stoves, they did it with a couple wood inserts as well, all inspected and approved. Travis offers a kit for their inserts that allow for hardwiring as well. They always had to be mounted in metal boxes and allow enough slack for pulling the insert.
  13. wiltend

    wiltend New Member

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    I had the same decision regarding the Jotul or the quadrafire. I decided on the Jotul based on my experience with my Castine in my family room and the looks. The 550 is very nice looking, as are all jotuls. They are great stoves. I hope you get delivery as promised or at least are more patient than I was.
  14. Mike Wilson

    Mike Wilson New Member

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    Okay, I have been through some of this four years ago when I had my Kennebec installed, so let me tell you what I learned.

    First, you most likely will not be mounting the cord inside the firebox. I had originally wanted the cord to be inside as well, and my dealer said sure, no problem, can do, just have the hole drilled for the installers when they arrive. I asked about the heat back there and was again told, no problem, if that's where you want it, that's where we'll have them put it, you won't see a wire. I liked it, wife liked it, so off I went to the hardware store. Naive me, I bought a very long masonry bit, and drilled a perfect hole from the basement up through the bottom of the firebox in a corner, came out very nice. Installers came a few days later, and said I was out of my mind, and the guy at the dealer who told me this was completely incorrect. NOW, I know why. The heat that builds up behind an insert is immense... your wire's insulation will melt. The entire outlet will melt. The wire that they supply with the Jotul stove, will melt. Its also against code. Unless your manual and code specifically states its possible, I would insist that it is not. Learn to live with the wire, I did. I also filled in the hole I drilled.

    Next issue, that mantle. The one piece of trim that looks to be 8-12 inches above your firebox, may be a problem. Consider a heat shield. Actually, do one better, and check your manual. Insist that you get one before the installation. I do not know what the Rockland requires (nobody does???) but if you can't get one, take a look at the Kennebec Manual, which is located here. It looks like 49.5 inches minimum from the ground to any combustible protrusion. Obviously it won't be the same specs, but you'll get an idea as to what's going on. Note, while the Rockland is a larger stove, it is a flush mount, so there are variables here.

    Finally, if you need information and your dealer won't help you, do what I did, and call Jotul tech support. They will immediately tell you to call your dealer, and you must tell them that you have spoken to your dealer, and the dealer does not have the information you need. Their number is (207) 797-5912.

    Good luck, and if you have a photo of what a Rockland looks like, post it here. It may help.

    Oh, and you're in PA and you're not burning coal? :roll: (yeah, I know, coal has its issues, but the ease of burning is wonderful.)

    -- Mike
  15. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    Mike saved me the time - basic idea of the electric - it is OK if addressed in the manual and specs given. If not, it is not OK.

    Sounds like you have the info you need on the clearances......or will get it.
  16. titan

    titan Minister of Fire

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    Is the Rockland bigger(firebox) or smaller than the Kennebec?
  17. Mike Wilson

    Mike Wilson New Member

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    I think bigger... but not sure by how much. I think its big feature, in addition to size, is that its a true flush mount.

    On that note, I still don't know how many cu/ft my Kennebec is, or any other Jotul stove, for that matter.

    -- Mike
  18. vegemom

    vegemom New Member

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    Mike, thanks for all of the helpful information.. what you and your wife planned to do with the outlet is the exact situation I am facing, and I planned to trust the dealer and proceed just as you did. My new plan is to call Jotul tech support (thank you for the number) and have them email me a manual and address the blower outlet location question.

    The Jotul printed wood insert product guide has the specs on the C 550 Rockland unit.. if the attached scan is not clear enough, or if you want another pic or info, let me know.

    Attached Files:

  19. vegemom

    vegemom New Member

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    Re: firebox size.. according to my dealer, the Kennebec is rated to heat up to 1800 sq ft and the Rockland up to 2000 sq ft.. they also said the firebox on the Kennebec is 3cu ft and that of the Rockland is larger. That said, I have no printed info from Jotul to support this info, and I am no longer taking their word as law considering the blower outlet info.
  20. vegemom

    vegemom New Member

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    I just talked to Jotul customer service.. first I was told that they could send me a catalog (which I already have), and when I pushed for the manual I was referred to tech support. They also told me that whatever date my dealer game me re: delivery was the most up to date info, as they are being sent out to delaers in the order the orders were placed. The rep would not even confirm if units were already being set or if the release date has been changed in the last few months.. she just referred me to the dealer. I was then sent to tech support voice mail thanks to y blower question, and I left a very detailed msg req the installation manual and specifics re: the blower outlet location. We'll see what happens.
  21. ecfinn

    ecfinn New Member

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    Vegemom,

    Where are you located in SE PA? A number of us are also in SE PA and might be able to help you if needed. PM me if you want to chat some more. Which stove shop are you dealing with?

    Eric
  22. wiltend

    wiltend New Member

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    Get ready for a wait. This is exactly what was happening to me since early August. There is no manual and nothing on their web site. I was told they do not have EPA approval yet. By the way, the 550 is larger than the 450 but no way is the firebox 3 cf. Unfortunately, jotul doesn't publish volume of firebox but it will be comparable to the Oslo 500.
  23. vegemom

    vegemom New Member

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    Eric: I am south of Pottstown and I am dealing with Kring's on Rt 100 in Boyertown.. have you had any experience with them? I was very happy with the amount of time they took to help me when I was shopping, as I was in their shop multiple times and asked a lot of questions over a few months before I was ready to buy. The guys seem to know what they are talking about, though now I am not so sure..
  24. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    Krings is an old shop that knows their stuff. The original owner just happened (trivia) to come from the family that owned Unicast, a foundry in Boyertown that originally made parts for most early stove on the market - Vermont Castings, Upland, Cawley-Lemay and MANY more.
  25. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    FYI, I talked to Jotul and got a similar story. Dealers should be up to date on delivery times based on when they placed the order. If someone places an order now, I would guess they will not see unit before Xmas or end of the year, but if you are already in line the dealer could see that unit a their place of business by the end of this month (I would guess not before, although it is possible).

    New products typically take longer than planned because there are always those strange delays - for instance, when we made stoves one vendor printed the label wrong! We had to wait for another batch.

    Luckily it is a relatively warm fall. But I know the appeal of having a stove early (before the holidays is a strong one). Sometimes we have to remind folks that winter starts Dec. 21 and last year it snowed heavy here in the NE until about April 18. So there should be plenty of time to burn.

    So get that wood ready, and do the tile work.....and check with the dealer as to whereabout you were "in line".
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