Kaowool behind the insert
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Gooserider
Mod Emeritus
Looks like a nice install FB, I assume you are using a metal block-off plate above the insert as well as the insulation? (If not you should be...)
Welcome to the forum, and you did real well for a first post - one thing that might help is if you go to the "Personal Profile" section (look at the very top of your screen) there is a space to enter your general geographic location which will then show up over next to your name - this can be helpful in telling us what sort of environment you are working with, how much heat you need, etc... It isn't required, but it helps.
Gooserider
Welcome to the forum, and you did real well for a first post - one thing that might help is if you go to the "Personal Profile" section (look at the very top of your screen) there is a space to enter your general geographic location which will then show up over next to your name - this can be helpful in telling us what sort of environment you are working with, how much heat you need, etc... It isn't required, but it helps.
Gooserider
A few additional facts and/or observations for those with exterior hearth and chimney. (FunkBrother's insert photo has really caught my eye.)
- On cold nights, opening the (sort of) airtight doors on the old fireplace was like opening a refrigerator. This could be from cold air coming down the chimney, but it's also from the exposed brick.
- A thin steel faceplate on the insert is designed to let the heat into the room. But when the fire's not burning, it lets the cold into the room. (Techinically, the heat is leaving the room, but that's how it feels.)
- The idea of insulating the firebox of the insert alone keeps it hotter, but heat still seeps out the exposed brick.
- In case I don't believe myself, just feel the outside brick wall of the chimney after 3 days of burning in January. Yeah, it's warm. (Not hot, but still must be considered)
These are important things to consider for those installing an insert into an exterior brick FP and chimney. The blockoff plate may be just the first step. The edge of the building envelope is at the back wall of the FP, not the edge of the insert.
I am impressed with FB's installation, and would love to hear more results from others with similar setups. I think it would be helpful to anyone planning a new insert installation.
- On cold nights, opening the (sort of) airtight doors on the old fireplace was like opening a refrigerator. This could be from cold air coming down the chimney, but it's also from the exposed brick.
- A thin steel faceplate on the insert is designed to let the heat into the room. But when the fire's not burning, it lets the cold into the room. (Techinically, the heat is leaving the room, but that's how it feels.)
- The idea of insulating the firebox of the insert alone keeps it hotter, but heat still seeps out the exposed brick.
- In case I don't believe myself, just feel the outside brick wall of the chimney after 3 days of burning in January. Yeah, it's warm. (Not hot, but still must be considered)
These are important things to consider for those installing an insert into an exterior brick FP and chimney. The blockoff plate may be just the first step. The edge of the building envelope is at the back wall of the FP, not the edge of the insert.
I am impressed with FB's installation, and would love to hear more results from others with similar setups. I think it would be helpful to anyone planning a new insert installation.
Thanks to those who took the time to respond to my original post, and sorry it took a while to get back to you. Some quick answers:
Grandpa - I live in Ohio near Dayton.
Begreen - I'm happy with the improvement in heat output, however still not totally statisfied. (My wife has used the word "obsessive" in regard to my quest for the ultimate insert setup, but hey, who asked her? Seriously, she loves the warmth too). My main thoughts for future changes are 1) an outside air supply and 2) some sort of "smart" fan or even "smart" intake air and damper controls. By smart I mean automatic and contributing to efficiency - both in the sense of burning cleanly and maximizing heat output. But those are at the pipe dream stage.
Goose - yes, I'm using a metal block off plate, in fact, it covers (in two pieces) the entire top of the old fireplace firebox , and has ceramic insulation behind it. If you look closely at the picture in the first post, you may be able to see a sheet metal tab sticking down at the middle of the lintel; that is the very end of one of the overlapping blockoff pieces and I'm proud to say I eventually snipped that off. Only took me about a year.
Grandpa part II - I totally agree with what you are saying about the exterior chimney/firebox being a major heat sink. And like you I'm interested in hearing more stories of what others have done to solve this problem.
Finally, thanks to the Webmaster and those who moderate and contribute regularly to the site. I've been checking it on and off over the years and feel that I've learned a lot. In fact, many of the ideas I eventually put into service on my setup, I got from Craig and others here at Hearth.com. Well, that's if you *like* the ideas. If you don't, then they're mine, all mine!
Grandpa - I live in Ohio near Dayton.
Begreen - I'm happy with the improvement in heat output, however still not totally statisfied. (My wife has used the word "obsessive" in regard to my quest for the ultimate insert setup, but hey, who asked her? Seriously, she loves the warmth too). My main thoughts for future changes are 1) an outside air supply and 2) some sort of "smart" fan or even "smart" intake air and damper controls. By smart I mean automatic and contributing to efficiency - both in the sense of burning cleanly and maximizing heat output. But those are at the pipe dream stage.
Goose - yes, I'm using a metal block off plate, in fact, it covers (in two pieces) the entire top of the old fireplace firebox , and has ceramic insulation behind it. If you look closely at the picture in the first post, you may be able to see a sheet metal tab sticking down at the middle of the lintel; that is the very end of one of the overlapping blockoff pieces and I'm proud to say I eventually snipped that off. Only took me about a year.
Grandpa part II - I totally agree with what you are saying about the exterior chimney/firebox being a major heat sink. And like you I'm interested in hearing more stories of what others have done to solve this problem.
Finally, thanks to the Webmaster and those who moderate and contribute regularly to the site. I've been checking it on and off over the years and feel that I've learned a lot. In fact, many of the ideas I eventually put into service on my setup, I got from Craig and others here at Hearth.com. Well, that's if you *like* the ideas. If you don't, then they're mine, all mine!
Gooserider
Mod Emeritus
As I said, really nice job, you definitely did a good job of applying the lessons that we try to teach on here. We appreciate the credit you give us, but you did the work, and it clearly shows you were paying attention.
As to getting more heat out - Outside air kits get mixed reviews, I think they are a good idea overall when they can be done without excessive effort, but wouldn't expect a huge amount of benefit from them...
What I might be tempted to look at is to see how hot the outer shell of the insert gets, and depending on how much heat it is putting out, possibly adding a small fan between the insert shell and the fireplace wall - sort of a secondary heat exchanger to get what makes it past the first blower.... Might or might not work, I don't know how much heat there would be there to recover.
Gooserider
As to getting more heat out - Outside air kits get mixed reviews, I think they are a good idea overall when they can be done without excessive effort, but wouldn't expect a huge amount of benefit from them...
What I might be tempted to look at is to see how hot the outer shell of the insert gets, and depending on how much heat it is putting out, possibly adding a small fan between the insert shell and the fireplace wall - sort of a secondary heat exchanger to get what makes it past the first blower.... Might or might not work, I don't know how much heat there would be there to recover.
Gooserider
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