Keeping JOTUL hot during Freezing Temps!

[Soadrocks]

It's me again! The Rochesterian Rookie. I'm here again asking for help from the pros.

My conundrum. It's pretty gosh darn cold here in Rochester, NY. We're 24/7 burning with the Castine (furnance is set at 50). Jotul is in the basement (Finished basement, insulated, carpet/pad, the whole nine yards).

Here is the issue:

I get a decent amount of hot coals, load it up like a puzzle...keep the door open a bit for it to get going, lock the door. Wait for the stove to get to around 520, 525, and then turn down the air, when it peaks around 600, ill go about 1/2, or little less than half on the air, and then about 15 minutes later I'll go to about 85% down and the laser light purple flame show begins. I'm good for about 2-3 hours. But, at like 4 hours, the temps on the stove top read at 400 and declining. I can't reload now because if I do , I'll get a huge load of coals, and we obviously don't want. But, when I wait, the temps just decline for the next two hours or so before the coals die down. When this happens the place starts to get cooler....

Is this just part of the cycle or is there this "magical sweet spot" with the air lever that can maintain a hot fire at 500 degrees for 4-5 hours consistently that I'm not aware of.

Any tips, suggestion, or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Scott

 

[wahoowad]

You have the normal cycle going on my friend. Those coals are just the bottom side of your burn cycle and not much you can do about it. You are correct, if you reload too soon you will just build coals upon coals. As your temps drop (say below 400) you can start opening up the air again a little bit to burn those coals down. I rake mine to the front where they will get the most airflow across them. They used to frustrate me but now I give em a little air and just appreciate the heat that comes of em.

 

[Hanko]

Thats pretty much what you get with that size fire box. Sounds like you stove might be undersized. I dont think you mentioned how big your house is, or I should say what the sq ft area you trying to heat.

 

[westkywood]

I'm by no means a "pro" , but yes it is a cycle you just have to live with. I'm burning my coals down right now after being gone for 6 hours. I put 2 or 3 small splits in there ( n/s ) open the air all the way and let it burn down the coals. You're situation is normal.
In my opinion you shouldnt have to leave the door open to get it going.( If you have the right setup. )My stove actually burns better with the door closed, plus I get more heat from the splits that way.
Do a search on this subject. You'll find lots of threads on this subject.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Don't cut the air back so much.

You are naturally going to have a peak in temp and then a decline. Sacrifice length in burn time for stovetop temp. Build up your coals for your overnight burn.

Matt

 

[begreen]

Sounds like you are doing things right, but reaching the limits of the stove size. Your experience is similar to mine. With soft maple, I could never maintain the F400 at a high temp for more than 2-3 hrs. There just isn't enough fuel if you are trying to keep the stove top at 600-650 for an extended period. When you are pushing the stove and the temps decline to 400, move the coals to the front of the stove and open up the air to burn them down. Let the furnace run a few times a day. It will take the pressure off.

 

[Wet1]

Sounds to me like you need a bigger stove. And BG, it's NOT okay to let the furnace run even once, let alone a few times a day! :cheese:

 

[CO2Neutral]

We heat 100% with wood stove. Baseboard electric hasn't come on in two years. I'll second the above comments because I know that our old stove couldn't keep up with our house and with our new Fusion we still have to "pull the goalie" sometimes to get remote rooms heated to 72F but it just means I have to actual increase the throttle to 10-20%. our old stove was a continuous battle to keep even temperatures and mornings were chilly -- no longer.

My vote is to go bigger next time -- sell it for a good price and get an Oslo!

 

[EatenByLimestone]

There is nothing wrong with running the furnace when we get a cold snap. If the stove keeps the house at temp 80% of the time you will use much less gas or oil to heat your home.


Matt

 

[Soadrocks]

Thanks guys for the feedback!

We have a ranch...upstairs is a little over 1000 SQ feet.

The finished basement where the stove is a little over 600 square feet.

We contemplated the Oslo, but we didn't want to sweat ourselves off. We're in the long haul with the Castine. Right now, I have a good set of coals going, waiting to burn down, the thermometer on stovetop reads a little under 400. Upstairs is 60 degrees and down here it's 70 degrees from the spot furthest from the stove....TV sitting area is at 75 degrees. I'm in boxers and a T-shirt, but there are times I wish it was a little warmer especially after a long day at the dog park with the St. Bernard and it's freezing.

We love the Jotul, and if we could do it again, we'd prolly go with the Oslo, but we're hoping the Castine gives us 25 years of love!

Thanks again! Due to the advice, I have raked my coals to the front, opened up the air, and will get the stove temps up higher next load before going back on the air. Thanks again. I love this site!

 

[Soadrocks]

Our goal is to get through the winter without the furnace kicking on. Our last RGE Bill was under $60 (gas + electric)...last year, it was close to $240.

 

[woodjack]

At this point, I think the solution is closing every gap you can find that's letting cold air in. Work like a detective to fill air gaps and insulate insulate insulate. My house does not hold warm air (very high ceilings, lots of windows, poor insulation, air holes to outside). When I first moved into my house I couldn't even get it warm on a cold night. It's amazing how much improved it is from tightening the envelope. It still gets cold as the stove cools, but now I use less wood and have a much more stable temperature. It's not that your house is not getting warm. The warm air is leaving.

 

[cycloxer]

You aren't running enough air towards the end of your burn. If you have the EUR primary air plate, put that in. Then as the stovetop temp gets below 500°F you want to keep increasing the air over the burn until you get to 100% air. The goal is to try to keep the burn temp in the 500-600°F range. A spike to 650 is okay. I am able to further improve my burn as I have added a blower to the stove allowing me to run even higher air settings while lowering the stove top temp roughly 100°F. If you do this, you can burn 24/7 w/o building up coals. The Castine just doesn't burn that well at 400°F and as you have discovered, you build up coals. When you hit 400°F you want to be at max air. The EUR plate allows more air into the stove at that temp to help complete the burn of the coals.

I am heating 1,100 sq. ft. with my Castine and it works just fine, BUT I operate my stove like a locomotive engineer. If you want to set-it-and-forget-it, you need to step up to the Oslo.

 

[rustynut]

soadr,
yum on those quesadillas.........
been looking at a pile of coals here as well lately... What i've been doing (when i'm not cooking) is pulling them in a line and putting another log on top, then opening up that air a bit. seems to be holding the house temps while burning down those coals.
rn

 

[begreen]

Sounds to me like you need a bigger stove. And BG, it's NOT okay to let the furnace run even once, let alone a few times a day! :cheese:

Why not? It ain't religion. It's about keeping your family warm.

 

[Linesider]

You aren't running enough air towards the end of your burn. If you have the EUR primary air plate, put that in. Then as the stovetop temp gets below 500°F you want to keep increasing the air over the burn until you get to 100% air. The goal is to try to keep the burn temp in the 500-600°F range. A spike to 650 is okay. I am able to further improve my burn as I have added a blower to the stove allowing me to run even higher air settings while lowering the stove top temp roughly 100°F. If you do this, you can burn 24/7 w/o building up coals. The Castine just doesn't burn that well at 400°F and as you have discovered, you build up coals. When you hit 400°F you want to be at max air. The EUR plate allows more air into the stove at that temp to help complete the burn of the coals.

I am heating 1,100 sq. ft. with my Castine and it works just fine, BUT I operate my stove like a locomotive engineer. If you want to set-it-and-forget-it, you need to step up to the Oslo.

With this method, are you burning through a lot of wood? You maybe sending a lot of heat up the chimney? I pack the stove, get a good burn 550-600, then shut her all the way down, I have a strong draft, so I close my pipe damper all the way and regulate with the air plate. After install of the damper, I feel like I'm benefiting from more heat coming into the house, if I am around to tend to the stove I could heat two floors of a 100 year old 1400 square foot house with the 3cb. I do have to keep up with it. I also end up with some coals, but rake them forward and then load up with some pine once a day and let it rip, knocks the coals right down.

 

[cycloxer]

No. The optimum burn temp according to Jotul is 400-600°F and I concur. If you shut off the primary air all of the way and the temperature drifts below that zone, sure, you will burn longer, but you aren't extracting any more Btu's out of the wood. All you do is smolder which is inefficient. Adding more primary air as the charge of fuel burns down is actually a good thing as you are allowing the fuel to complete the burn and the stove stays in the sweet spot longer. If you don't, you end up with a box of charcoal as the original poster is experiencing.

I suppose if you ran the stove as a raging inferno at 700°F all of the time that would be the case, but that's not what I am doing. I am looking at the stove right now and it is burning at 500°F with my blower on medium. I have a nice glowing fuel charge with flames on the secondaries, but they are not raging. The flames are moving at a slow-moderate pace. It looks pretty efficient to me - moreso than the smolder you get below 400°F.

 

[nojo]

When you guys say your stove is running at 500. What do you mean? A magnetic thermometer 18" up the flue pipe, a thermometer on the stove top??

I have an oven thermometer on my stovetop and a magnetic flue thermometer. The stovetop one can read 400-500 and flue one will read 300 or so.

How are you guys figuring this?

PS my trailblazer has like a 1.1 cubic foot firebox and I've got 1800ft here of partially insulated space with no attic/roof insulation yet. grr. Sometimes I feel like if im standing in front of it, thats all it will heat. But the upstairs gets decently warm.

 

[fraxinus]

I'm generally very satisfied with my new Jotul F600, but the thing I miss the most from the old Defiant is the thermostatic air control. The Jotul has no system that increases air flow as the stove cools, so you must do it manually. Since most of the air in the Firelight, Oslo and Castine (maybe other Jotul models as well) comes through the four openings in the "doghouse" at the front center, the rear of the firebox is always the coolest area. This inevitably leads to a build up build up of unburned coals at the stove's rear and back sides unless the air control is almost fully open. My experience with maintaining a stove top temperature of 500 to 550 degrees is exactly the same as the original post; after 2 to 3 hours it becomes necessary to manually open the air control.

I don't think it would be impossible to retrofit a thermostatic control to the air entry point on the stove's bottom. With such a device you could leave the front air control all the way open all the time and control the air at the entry point. I'm not ready to do this, but am giving it some serious thought for next year. If my stove were in a less accessible place like the basement instead of the living room, I'd be even more determined to do this. I'm sure, however, there would be warranty isssues with such an addition.

Finally, can anyone tell me where the Euro plate is available?

 

[ansehnlich1]

Ya know, each stove installation is different, and sometimes that difference is HUGE, including how a chimney drafts. One chimney may draft awesome while another is sluggish, having a dramatic effect on how a stove operates.

That being said, in my OSLO, when I want to burn down coals, I'll rake 'em to the front and burn single splits on top the pile, usually takes 2 or 3 splits, one at a time, to get 'em to burn down.

Or, I'll rake 'em to the front and just open the side door about an inch, close the primary air, and let that air suck in the side door across the coals, that burns 'em down in an hour or so.

Your mileage WILL vary

 

[Skier76]

When you guys say your stove is running at 500. What do you mean? A magnetic thermometer 18" up the flue pipe, a thermometer on the stove top??

I have an oven thermometer on my stovetop and a magnetic flue thermometer. The stovetop one can read 400-500 and flue one will read 300 or so.

How are you guys figuring this?

PS my trailblazer has like a 1.1 cubic foot firebox and I've got 1800ft here of partially insulated space with no attic/roof insulation yet. grr. Sometimes I feel like if im standing in front of it, thats all it will heat. But the upstairs gets decently warm.

Get a magnetic one for the stove top. I think there was a post here last week about the difference between a magnetic one vs and oven one. I want to say the temp varried by 100+ degrees.

 

[cycloxer]

When you guys say your stove is running at 500. What do you mean?

We're talking stove top temp measured in one of the corners w/ a magnetic thermo.

 

[cycloxer]

...the thing I miss the most from the old Defiant is the thermostatic air control. The Jotul has no system that increases air flow as the stove cools, so you must do it manually.

Yes, this is actually how the Jotul burns. If you leave the primary air at a very low setting, the stove won't get enough air to burn up the coals as the load burns down. The EUR inspection cover helps a bit in this regard as it allows you to increase the primary air setting to 2X that of the USA cover.

I don't believe the Oslo uses the same part as the Castine and I'm not sure if they have a EUR version.

 

[nojo]

When you guys say your stove is running at 500. What do you mean?

We're talking stove top temp measured in one of the corners w/ a magnetic thermo.

My stove has a step I have had my thermometer on the step by the pipe collar. Should I move it to the corner on the step?

 

[woodjack]

My thermometer is in the center of the stove top, in front of the flue. I'm not sure, but I'd guess that's where most people have it.