keeping up with the polar vortex

[infinitymike]

So here it is 16 minutes later and the T-stat is satisfied and the WG shut down.
16 minute cycle in 3.5 hours.
I'll let ya know when the next cycle is.
Either the house will demand or the 30* differential will call.
Hmm which will it be!

 

[infinitymike]

31* outside and exactly 2 hours later the 1st floor zone was demanding. Wood Gun cycled on for about 15 minutes and shes done.


Not really a polar vortex today.

 

[Fred61]

Storage is still on my wish list, but unfortunately it's far down on the list since kids college tuitions, mortgage, food and other things come first!

Been there!

 

[maple1]

Been there!

Living it!

 

[KenLockett]

Please don't take the "storage...no storage" as an "us VS them" dispute. It's not "HA HA HA I have storage and you don't. The people that took the plunge and installed storage are just trying to send the message to those who have not installed it what it has done for them. At least that has been my mission. I don't care if you have storage or not. It's difficult to see the virtues until you try it. I'm not trying to sell it to you. Just trying to help.

If you believe that lighting a fire every day is tedious then you are not going about it correctly. I've mentioned it several times here that I attempt to leave charcoal in my firebox at the end of my daily burn. Next day's lighting procedure is: rake the coals over the nozzle, load as much wood as you want or need, close firebox door, light charcoal up through nozzle for 30 to 45 seconds, remove torch, close door, start fan and walk away. I know it sounds like a long procedure but it's only 30 to 45 seconds longer than adding your fuel load. I do it every day in the coldest months. It's easier than putting my socks on.

The Wood Gun is even easier. If you have 2 or three coals laying on the nozzle just wad up a couple pages of newspaper, light it and throw it over the coals. Presto you're ready to add wood. That fast moving draft will have those coals glowing in no time and that's all you need if at least one of your logs makes contact with the coals.

One advantage that I haven't put forth is that I can take down and clean my boiler any day of the week. If I find myself with a few extra minutes I can open it up, remove the turbs and brush the tubes. It's usually cool by morning so I basically have all day up 'til 4:00 PM when I usually start my daily burn.

Fred, just out of curiosity, if there are coals left behind after a burn to some degree would that not be similar to idling especially if there is sufficient draft to keep them glowing. Would this create creosote as well. I'm curious on my end since I am often tempted to simply shut-off the draft fan after a full burn (to clean for example) while there are still coals glowing to preserve and not have to relight. I usually worry though and let the fan fun until the coals are essentially extinguished.

Your point of view is appreciated. Based upon my time on the forum I understand the pro's and con's of storage/no storage. However, there are varying degrees of opinion on here regarding best practices for wood burning. There are some viewpoints from members on the forum that tend to imply that those who do not use storage are being irresponsible with respect to the environment and emissions. Of course everyone is entitled to ones opinion so I try to take it with a grain of salt. It seems that everyone who is active on the forum is generally respectful but there are times I sense an underlying sense of judgement. Hope this doesn't open a can of worms. Just voicing my impressions and opinions.

 

[BrotherBart]

Here in Maine we call a Polar Vortex, "Winter"

It would have been interesting if it had the 20 year effect on Maine that it had on most of the rest of the country. That would have been some nasty cold weather.

 

[BoilerMan]

When it was colder last week, ie. -32 night and -10 during the day all I do is use Hard Maple and Yellow Birch instead of the Aspen I've been burning. I'll generally throw 3 or 4 splits of Aspen in on the coal bed before going to bed which is not part of the normal routine. Nothing out of the ordinary for us for this time of year, heck my Ranger still starts w/o a block heater.......

TS

 

[BoilerMan]

Ok and to be completely fair, when it's way below zero for days at a time, I'll build a fire in the LR stove for some nice warmth that only a wood-stove can give. But I can't burn oil to heat the house (never piped it up) and there are some days I wish I could, especially when I have to work late. The stove is so quick to heat up.............the slab and even the boiler, not so much.

TS

 

[Coal Reaper]

I think all woodgas is expelled by the time splits turn into coals. I have no creosote buildup in in exchange tubes or chimney. I have my fan shut off when stack temp falls to about 100*c. This leaves enough charcoal to very easy light the next fire. It is exactly as simple as fred explained.
Boilers without storage and even WGs for that matter are expected to run thier best during high demand periods. Less idling and cycles. Storage on the other hand really shines in shoulder season when non-storage systems might have temp swings in the house or be idling or prone to blowback or whatever you WG guys call it when you get an explosion out the intake. I was originally curious how storage system are making out in these high heat demand times when there is no fire burning. During not so cold parts of the season we run our storage tank temps down lower but just cant get away with it as easily when the heat loss is greater. Once my supply temp falls to 140*f the house temp starts to fall when its this cold.

 

[jebatty]

During two of the -30's periods we had I was out of town for the entire time. I heated storage up to 190F before leaving and set the electric backup heat at 44F air temperature. On the cold period over Christmas I left on Dec 23, the shop was maintained by storage until Dec 29 when a small amount of electric heat was used, Dec 30 and 31 used 109 kwh of electric heat, and then I was back home and electric heat was off. Cost of the electric kwh: $12.00.

Electric was set at 44F, and the shop temp and floor temp was 44F when I returned. And I went through lots of wood reheating the floor and bring it up to temp and the 1000 gal storage tank up to temp. The storage had cooled down only to about 90F because I have a temp controller on storage that stops the draw from storage at about that point. That's to make sure no matter what happens storage never will be at risk of freezing, but all the other plumbing and boiler are allowed to cool down to air temp, which was 44F.

 

[jebatty]

Low temp radiant excels with storage. I supply 100F water to my in-floor. 1000 gal of 190F water will last 2 days or longer, depending on demand/outside temperature. During demand periods my Tarm (140,000 Btuh rated) will fully meet the in-floor demand, about 35,000 Btuh, and charge the tank at the same time. As often noted, the lower the temp of usable water, the easier it gets to operate a wood boiler with storage: maximum boiler burn rate without idling; potentially long periods between burns.

 

[Fred61]

Fred, just out of curiosity, if there are coals left behind after a burn to some degree would that not be similar to idling especially if there is sufficient draft to keep them glowing. Would this create creosote as well. I'm curious on my end since I am often tempted to simply shut-off the draft fan after a full burn (to clean for example) while there are still coals glowing to preserve and not have to relight. I usually worry though and let the fan fun until the coals are essentially extinguished.

Your point of view is appreciated. Based upon my time on the forum I understand the pro's and con's of storage/no storage. However, there are varying degrees of opinion on here regarding best practices for wood burning. There are some viewpoints from members on the forum that tend to imply that those who do not use storage are being irresponsible with respect to the environment and emissions. Of course everyone is entitled to ones opinion so I try to take it with a grain of salt. It seems that everyone who is active on the forum is generally respectful but there are times I sense an underlying sense of judgement. Hope this doesn't open a can of worms. Just voicing my impressions and opinions.

I believe that once your wood is burned down to the charcoal stage the volatiles that contain the gasses and moisture are pretty much depleted. Take for example your charcoal grille. Once the material is glowing there is no smoke which is the vehicle that carries all that nasty stuff.

I do this every day and get no creosote build-up. When I do visit the boiler at the time I assume the wood is depleted and I find an unburned piece the size of a banana still smoldering and smoking on top of the bed of coals, I shut her down anyway since I don't want to make another trip to the boiler. My justification being that it may deposit some creosote on the burn box but not enough so that I would notice if you know what the walls already look like. I also assume that if the smoke is drawn up the stack, it first must travel through a four inch deep bed of glowing coals which should pretty much ignite any of the gasses. The fire tubes in my boiler never show any signs of creosote.

So at this point in my explanation I look up and re-read your post. It appears that you're wondering if this is polluting the atmosphere. I don't know. What's your take on it?

Just to get off subject for a minute. I don't want to derail this thread because it is interesting. When you described yourself as a work at home engineer it caused me to recall another work at home engineer that I made friends with back in the 50s when I was a petroleum transfer technician (pumped gas). His office was separated from his home and needed it's own heat. He devised a feeding system that carried reject clothespins into a wood stove. These were rejects from an American factory that were better than the best Chinese ones you can now buy. They were maple and had been tumbled so the flowed like water.

 

[Coal Reaper]

His office was separated from his home and needed it's own heat. He devised a feeding system that carried reject clothespins into a wood stove.

That is glorious!
Well, i am off to the bahamas until monday night late. Gonna try not to think about heating but the house is running on oil for this period. Tstats dropped to 55, storage being warmed at 3gpm while OB fires so hopefully wont have to work to hard to bring everything back tofull temp. Tanks were 190 avg when i left yesterday. At least it warming up for the weekend...

 

[Fred61]

Low temp radiant excels with storage. I supply 100F water to my in-floor. 1000 gal of 190F water will last 2 days or longer, depending on demand/outside temperature. During demand periods my Tarm (140,000 Btuh rated) will fully meet the in-floor demand, about 35,000 Btuh, and charge the tank at the same time. As often noted, the lower the temp of usable water, the easier it gets to operate a wood boiler with storage: maximum boiler burn rate without idling; potentially long periods between burns.

I have my drawdown limit on storage set at 100 which will allow me to maintain house temperatures when outside is in the high 20s and low thirties but when outside is zero or below and late afternoon comes and zones are calling and storage is at 120 it seems to keep the thermostats satisfied but the radiant output doesn't seem to overcome the radiant from windows, etc. and my body feels cold. I haven't run that condition for any length of time since it usually occurs about boiler firing time.
EDIT: Forget DHW when temps are at 100 degrees!

 

[DBNH22]

It would have been interesting if it had the 20 year effect on Maine that it had on most of the rest of the country. That would have been some nasty cold weather.

I think many people that have never experienced a New England Winter, particularly a northern New England winter, have no idea how brutal and long they can be. After hearing about all the cold weather in MN I actually looked at a map. I'd never actually realized much further north MN, WI, ND and part of MI are compared to Maine, NH and Vermont. As a native New Englander who's never experienced a winter in MN, WI etc.. I always just assumed we had bragging rights when it came to the toughest winters. has anyone experienced both? How do they compare?

 

[mwk1000]

thats the same thing i was trying to explain. see pic. boiler supply come from far left. goes to house on the right.

Ah, didn't get it the first time. Got it now.

As a native New Englander who's never experienced a winter in MN, WI etc.. I always just assumed we had bragging rights when it came to the toughest winters. has anyone experienced both? How do they compare?

I live in MI and work in MN for the past few years, One time I was complaining about the 20 degree weather we were having in MI. on the phone with a bunch of folks from MN. One guy said , " Is that -20 or 20 ?" --- I never complained again ! I have had a few -30 or worse days that are just not something most of us are used to. They seem to take it in stride and keep movin

 

[__dan]

I have not noticed any difference in my routine. Second year with the Froling and I'm still burning the low quality cordwood first. Had some really punky, light, damaged wood in the piles. What made the biggest difference this year was getting the piles up on pallets, much dryer! Also made a stack under the porch and that stuff burns like a dream, but it was still the uglies. I'm looking at stacks in the yard of beautiful css red and white oak for burning 2 years out. The Froling is not at all fussy about burning the low quality junk cordwood.

I need a woodshed. Tarps blew off the first stack and it got a little rained on.

In the cold I was burning ~ one 32 gallon Rubbermaid trash barrel of the low quality punked stuff daily. Just dipped into my second stack for this year and there's some nice hardwood splits in there. Don't have a scientific measurement, just by eye burning what I had budgeted for the year, but I don't see myself much over 3 cord for the entire year. And that's half junk tree remains.

In Ct it's pretty common for the jet stream to dip south in the winter and we get the cold air from Canada. What made the difference this time was the deep dip of the jet stream with the hard cold penetrating all through the South from Missouri to Georgia..

 

[Coal Reaper]

Its back!

 

[MarkW]

Wonderfy, isn't it. House is warn but boiler is hungry.

 

[cookiemonster]

how did everybody do handling the polar blasts that you are not used to?
i think i used a design temp of 10*F and expected to load my boiler (~60#'s/loading) 3 times a day at these times. we are coming out of a 3 day period of near 0 temps, with a negative windchill. we saw a high of 8*F yesterday with winds 23mph gusting to 36mph. i know this is nothing for our northern friends with crazy insulation but here in new jersey we just ussually dont see more than 24 consecutive hours under these conditions. i did fine with 3 loads the first day. yesterday i fired in the morning. 12 hours later when i got home from work 1000 gallon of storage tanks were depleted and house had dropped 5 degrees. 3 loads later the house had climbed only 3* by the next morning. thats 240#'s of wood for a 24 hour period. after a load this morning the wife reported that the house is now back up to temp. outside temperatures are climbing and it is sunny with no wind. my oil boiler would have had a very difficult time maintaining as well. even with 180*+ water coming from boiler/storage, it takes a great deal of effort to bring house temps back to where they should be. lesson i guess is to try to not let storage temps fall too low when it gets this cold. just hard being out of the house 12 hours during the day. again, these are extreme circumstances for our area. wind kills the heat loss in my house. i need to address air infiltration issues better. is what i am experiencing out of the norm for guys in my region with similar systems?

Vortex shmortex. Been using my Harman SF-360 for all of my heating and hot water needs from Nov. to March. My Buderus oil is powered off. Burning premium anthracite coal. This thing is great. Long burn cycles. No problem......( and I have half of the firebox blocked off). Ha

 

[jebatty]

Losing count on this season's "cold snaps." I think we just ended #5 on Thursday, Friday temps reached into the +20's, but today starts another one with the real cold starting Sunday night (-29F and wind) with temps not getting above 0F for several days. 9 days so far in Jan when the temps never got above 0F.

The living room wood stove installed in 1990 keeps the 1500 sq ft house warm, regardless of the cold outside, but I think this Dec and Jan have been the longest continuous periods of burning, literally 24/7, that the stove ever has seen. Wood supply remains good, foresee no shortage.

 

[Fred61]

Losing count on this season's "cold snaps." I think we just ended #5 on Thursday, Friday temps reached into the +20's, but today starts another one with the real cold starting Sunday night (-29F and wind) with temps not getting above 0F for several days. 9 days so far in Jan when the temps never got above 0F.

The living room wood stove installed in 1990 keeps the 1500 sq ft house warm, regardless of the cold outside, but I think this Dec and Jan have been the longest continuous periods of burning, literally 24/7, that the stove ever has seen. Wood supply remains good, foresee no shortage.

I suspect we may get some of that warm bubble today. At bedtime last night it was +4 and this morning it was +10.

I had a little talk with my boiler last night when I wheeled my cart of wood in for my daily fire. I told it that it's all you're getting tonight so use it wisely.

 

[jebatty]

... and what did the Boiler say? beeteeuuu, beeteeuu, bbbettteu and hhhhh!

 

[Fred61]

That could have been what it said. All I could make out was uuuu. Don't know what came before that.

 

[MarkW]

I suspect we may get some of that warm bubble today. At bedtime last night it was +4 and this morning it was +10.

I had a little talk with my boiler last night when I wheeled my cart of wood in for my daily fire. I told it that it's all you're getting tonight so use it wisely.

We have +14 now!
I'm so excited that Ijust can't hide it. I'll make it on storage all day and I think I like it!