King 5500M Room Fan Blower Issues/Stove Overheating. 5510 Owners feel free to chime in please.

[Rebel]

Hello everyone, I am new to posting on the site however not new to viewing the Forums.

My problem is the stove sometimes gets very hot to where you can smell it. The Room blower (which always have on 9) will then shut down. Stove will continue to run and build up heat. The stove will let out a popping D-o-n-g sound. The first time it did it, I thought it might be normal. So I let it run it's course a bit and figured it was just too hot and shut it off. After fire being out a while and it cooling down, the room fan kicked on for a couple minutes then after the room fan shut off the stove would spill out pellets and probably would have dispense the whole hopper had I not unplugged the machine. This routine has happened to me 3 times. First time I was not aware of the ash doors on the back wall to the left and right and that they needed cleaned out. So I gave the stove a thorough cleaning and it worked fine. Second time it happened, I was confused because I had been keeping the stove well cleaned. Turned out a lot of ash built up in the Clean out T (clean out T is the only 90), so I cleaned that out and also the exhaust pipe with a fancy brush that came with one of my vacuums. After letting it cool whilei started it back up and it worked fine. Well i didn't need the stove for a while so it stayed off, we've only been using it as needed on those freakishly odd cold nights. Well just recently i went out and bought the only brand i have really liked in the thing (tried Lignectics first, Pennington's Nature's heat, and Allegany's) which is Lignetics. Put 3 bags in the hopper, it burnt all day and through the night, next morning i shut it off due to it not being needed. later that day after the sun started going down i turn it back on, and it ran all night and through the next day. We left about 7:00pm and came home about 11:00pm to find it overheating again, I shut it down, It popped with a D-O-N-G, cooled down, Room fan came on and started dumping pellets. I unplugged, Vacuumed out the 1 1/2 inches of ash out if the bottom, Vacuumed out 1 inch of ash behind the ash doors to the left and right. Things just didn't add up It had only been burning 48 hrs worth and definately not enough Ash to be a problem. I thought it was the clean out T. There was only about an 1/8th of an inch in there.

So my question is, has anyone else had a problem like this? What remedied the issue? Is it a bad room fan?


The stove is still practically brand new, it's only burned about 600 lbs worth of pellets.

 

[Rebel]

I forgot to mention this is all done on Heat range 2 . Feed rates set at 1.75 and 4.55 (only thing i found that doesn't let the flame go out of dump too much pellets in) with draft fan at 3. Exhaust pipe is stand for the stove and runs out the wall behind it into a t clean out and vertical about 2 - 2 1/2 feet.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Hello everyone, I am new to posting on the site however not new to viewing the Forums.

My problem is the stove sometimes gets very hot to where you can smell it. The Room blower (which always have on 9) will then shut down. Stove will continue to run and build up heat. The stove will let out a popping D-o-n-g sound. The first time it did it, I thought it might be normal. So I let it run it's course a bit and figured it was just too hot and shut it off. After fire being out a while and it cooling down, the room fan kicked on for a couple minutes then after the room fan shut off the stove would spill out pellets and probably would have dispense the whole hopper had I not unplugged the machine. This routine has happened to me 3 times. First time I was not aware of the ash doors on the back wall to the left and right and that they needed cleaned out. So I gave the stove a thorough cleaning and it worked fine. Second time it happened, I was confused because I had been keeping the stove well cleaned. Turned out a lot of ash built up in the Clean out T (clean out T is the only 90), so I cleaned that out and also the exhaust pipe with a fancy brush that came with one of my vacuums. After letting it cool whilei started it back up and it worked fine. Well i didn't need the stove for a while so it stayed off, we've only been using it as needed on those freakishly odd cold nights. Well just recently i went out and bought the only brand i have really liked in the thing (tried Lignectics first, Pennington's Nature's heat, and Allegany's) which is Lignetics. Put 3 bags in the hopper, it burnt all day and through the night, next morning i shut it off due to it not being needed. later that day after the sun started going down i turn it back on, and it ran all night and through the next day. We left about 7:00pm and came home about 11:00pm to find it overheating again, I shut it down, It popped with a D-O-N-G, cooled down, Room fan came on and started dumping pellets. I unplugged, Vacuumed out the 1 1/2 inches of ash out if the bottom, Vacuumed out 1 inch of ash behind the ash doors to the left and right. Things just didn't add up It had only been burning 48 hrs worth and definately not enough Ash to be a problem. I thought it was the clean out T. There was only about an 1/8th of an inch in there.

So my question is, has anyone else had a problem like this? What remedied the issue? Is it a bad room fan?


The stove is still practically brand new, it's only burned about 600 lbs worth of pellets.

How clean is your convection blower? They get dust bunnies and accumulate bear fur and when plugged up don't do a good job of moving air to cool the stoves heat exchangers. When they get too hot they self protect by stopping. This happens enough and the lubricant leaves the bearing etc ... A lot of convection blowers require regular lubrication.

Also call USSC and talk to a tech. Those controllers can be set to dispense too much fuel and over fire the unit. While talking to them ask them how the stove should behave when overheating. Be sure to tell them everything you told us.

 

[Rebel]

How clean is your convection blower? They get dust bunnies and accumulate bear fur and when plugged up don't do a good job of moving air to cool the stoves heat exchangers. When they get too hot they self protect by stopping. This happens enough and the lubricant leaves the bearing etc ... A lot of convection blowers require regular lubrication.

Also call USSC and talk to a tech. Those controllers can be set to dispense too much fuel and over fire the unit. While talking to them ask them how the stove should behave when overheating. Be sure to tell them everything you told us.

I don't see how the Stove's convention blower would need cleaned due to it being new still and not even burned a ton of Pellets, heck it just REACHED over a 1/4 of a ton. If i need to take this thing apart in the middle of winter to Clean ever bit of the stove over a 1/4 of a ton of pellets there's something wrong with that picture.

And when you mention regular Lubricating, how much is regular?

 

[Rebel]

Also, how could it dispense too much pellets at Almost factory setting? Factory setting for low feed rate is 1.75 and Highest feed rate setting for factory is 4.50

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Also, how could it dispense too much pellets at Almost factory setting? Factory setting for low feed rate is 1.75 and Highest feed rate setting for factory is 4.50

Well let's see do you have a dog, perhaps two dogs, twice as much fur half the time required to plug up the blower ....

Did you verify that the controller is actually set as the factory says or are you going by what the manual says?

Is all of the firebox insulation still there?

The required lubrication schedule is normally 6 months.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Also, how could it dispense too much pellets at Almost factory setting? Factory setting for low feed rate is 1.75 and Highest feed rate setting for factory is 4.50

Auger at other than the RPM of what the controller is expecting. It is a timed feed and it is loaded auger volume not actual weight.

 

[Rebel]

Per the Manual If i push both Aux buttons at the same time the Control Panel sets all setting back to Factory settings, which is 1.75 low and 4.50 high

Sorry for all the questions, just find this all a bit hard to swallow since it's a new stove and all the stuff you're asking should be redundant.

Yes I have a dog, but he is Short haired and shedding is very minimal to other breeds.

Also, why wouldn't all the firebox insulation still be there?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Per the Manual If i push both Aux buttons at the same time the Control Panel sets all setting back to Factory settings, which is 1.75 low and 4.50 high

Sorry for all the questions, just find this all a bit hard to swallow since it's a new stove and all the stuff you're asking should be redundant.

Yes I have a dog, but he is Short haired and shedding is very minimal to other breeds.

Also, why wouldn't all the firebox insulation still be there?

Look, you are asking the wrong person.

I'm asking you because you have the stove and a very serious problem, one that has shown up here more than once.

We have seen a very small dip instead of rise in the horizontal portion of a vent cause the thermal in the exhaust blower shut a stove down. The reason the very small dip caused the problem was because a bit more ash collected there, that coupled with back pressure from wind in the vent was all it took to heat the exhaust system up.

 

[Rebel]

Look, you are asking the wrong person.

I'm asking you because you have the stove and a very serious problem, one that has shown up here more than once.

We have seen a very small dip instead of rise in the horizontal portion of a vent cause the thermal in the exhaust blower shut a stove down. The reason the very small dip caused the problem was because a bit more ash collected there, that coupled with back pressure from wind in the vent was all it took to heat the exhaust system up.

Took off side panel, still looks new with a tad bit of dust in the bottom of the machine, however No dust within the motors (both Exhaust and Room Fan [Convention Fan]) Fuses are all fine as well.

All firebox Insulation is still there.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Ok,

Is the horizontal portion of your vent on level or is there a rise in it? There should be a minimum of 1/4" per foot of rise.

Do you know what the RPM of your Auger is supposed to be?

Also what mode are you operating it in Automatic or Manual?

 

[Rebel]

Stove is Run on Manual, Heat Range 2. Low Feed Rate 1.75 High Feed Rate 4.55 (factory is 1.75 and 4.50), Draft fan on 3. (Setting for draft fan are left at Factory setting). Vent pipe goes out 2- 2 1/2 feet to a clean out T and then 2 - 2 1/2 feet vertical. Still needs 1/4 inch rise? Manual said nothing of the sort.

Also there is no OAK. My house was built in the 1920's still lath and plaster so it has plenty of air to pull from inside.

 

[imacman]

Has the convection fan /motor unit been removed from the stove to check for excessive ash/carbon build-up on the vanes? I agree that it seems too early for that, but you never know. While that unit is out of the stove, check the rest of the exhaust passages from there to the exhaust pipe, and also as much as you can back into the stove.

 

[Rebel]

Has the convection fan /motor unit been removed from the stove to check for excessive ash/carbon build-up on the vanes? I agree that it seems too early for that, but you never know. While that unit is out of the stove, check the rest of the exhaust passages from there to the exhaust pipe, and also as much as you can back into the stove.

Not sure what you mean by veins, but I pull the side panels off and to where you can see the intake side of the fan. And there's not enough ash/dust to create a problem.

 

[imacman]

Has the convection fan /motor unit been removed from the stove to check for excessive ash/carbon build-up on the vanes? I agree that it seems too early for that, but you never know. While that unit is out of the stove, check the rest of the exhaust passages from there to the exhaust pipe, and also as much as you can back into the stove.

Not sure what you mean by veins, but I pull the side panels off and to where you can see the intake side of the fan. And there's not enough ash/dust to create a problem.

OOOOPS...I meant the combustion blower unit. And the fan blades on it are referred to as "vanes".

I was just thinking that maybe the blower wasn't getting enough of the hot gases out of the stove due to poor performance (dirty).

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Stove is Run on Manual, Heat Range 2. Low Feed Rate 1.75 High Feed Rate 4.55 (factory is 1.75 and 4.50), Draft fan on 3. (Setting for draft fan are left at Factory setting). Vent pipe goes out 2- 2 1/2 feet to a clean out T and then 2 - 2 1/2 feet vertical. Still needs 1/4 inch rise? Manual said nothing of the sort.

Also there is no OAK. My house was built in the 1920's still lath and plaster so it has plenty of air to pull from inside.

Every horizontal piece of venting must have at least 1/4" per foot rise, you need to use the vent manufacturer's manual. Horizontal runs provide a lot of air flow resistance because the hot exhaust gases want to rise and are being blocked from doing so, as a result a lot of fly ash drops out in those sections.

Since we are talking about venting is your vent into the prevailing wind at your location?

Since you are in manual, how is your damper set and please describe your flame, color and activity?

I'm not going to get into OAK or no OAK discussion we have already had that here the last few days , if the manual says you must have then you must have one.

What imacman is asking about is worth checking into as well as if you get the exhaust being slowed down by the venting system it is possible for the heat to show up as an increased temperature in the stove shell and thus the convection air intake.

 

[Rebel]

Pull the Side panel off, pull the Combustion Blower out (just a matter of loosening screws and giving it a right turn and it popped right out. Veins had some ash build up but again nothing to create a problem. Cleaned them off, check inside was significantly pretty clean. As i put my hand in where the motor goes i could feel a cold breeze coming from outside. could this possibly be my problem? Also would the 1/4" rise eliminate that problem?

Flame is always bright orange like any other lit stove i've seen pictures of on here. It usually not lazy unless the fuel is getting close to depleting before the augur can give it some more.

As for a damper, the only thing the manual says about it is to not install one. due to it being regulated by the Combustion/Draft blower.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

If that air is coming in the vent yes it could be part of the problem you are having it indicates that your vent is into the wind which isn't really good, would you please take a picture of your vent termination on the outside of your house and post it so we can see it.

I don't have the manual for your stove in front of me, however a lot of USSC stoves have a damper in them on the incoming air side and in manual mode they get used where as in automatic mode they are left 100% open.

Maybe later I'll see if I have a copy of the manual on the machine here and do a bit more reading.

I'm just about to pack it in for the evening.

 

[Rebel]

Manual can be found here https://www.usstove.com/index.php?route=product/download/download&download_id=17 I have refered to it a lot in having the stove, IMO it's a crap Manual. Doesn't even tell how to set the Feed Rate/ Draft Fan on it.

There are only 3 motors in this stove. The Room Fan/Blower, The Draft Fan/blower and the Augur motor. On the control board there are only 3 select able settings, Heat Range (Feed rate), Room Fan (Convention Blower), and Draft Fan (Combustion Fan).

So I have no Idea what you mean by this Damper. If the Draft Fan control is what the damper is, and auto mode running at 100% would greatly reduce my heat by blowing it out my exhaust vent.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Manual can be found here https://www.usstove.com/index.php?route=product/download/download&download_id=17 I have refered to it a lot in having the stove, IMO it's a crap Manual. Doesn't even tell how to set the Feed Rate/ Draft Fan on it.

There are only 3 motors in this stove. The Room Fan/Blower, The Draft Fan/blower and the Augur motor. On the control board there are only 3 select able settings, Heat Range (Feed rate), Room Fan (Convention Blower), and Draft Fan (Combustion Fan).

So I have no Idea what you mean by this Damper. If the Draft Fan control is what the damper is, and auto mode running at 100% would greatly reduce my heat by blowing it out my exhaust vent.

The draft fan is aka as the combustion blower and it is not a damper. I just downloaded the manual for your stove. I'll read it tomorrow.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Here is a post you need to read it goes to the heart of the factory set rate according to the tech /delivered actual low firing rate on one of USSC's devices in this case a 6500 IIRC the factory tech said 6.5 lbs per hour was how it left the plant and it was actually 7.36 lbs per hour at https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewreply/953394/ now you have the procedure to actually look at the low firing rate set in that controller.


I'm still going down through the list of things that can lead to an over temperature situation and believe it or not there are other things, such as blockage of the stoves shells air slots by anything that might interfere with air flow into the shell.

 

[Rebel]

Here is a post you need to read it goes to the heart of the factory set rate according to the tech /delivered actual low firing rate on one of USSC's devices in this case a 6500 IIRC the factory tech said 6.5 lbs per hour was how it left the plant and it was actually 7.36 lbs per hour at https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewreply/953394/ now you have the procedure to actually look at the low firing rate set in that controller.


I'm still going down through the list of things that can lead to an over temperature situation and believe it or not there are other things, such as blockage of the stoves shells air slots by anything that might interfere with air flow into the shell.

Awesome find Smokey, I appreciate you going through the trouble of finding my problem. I didn't think to check the forums for anything other then the 5500M and 5510 stoves, I never would have thought that the 6500 had the same Control board. My control board only allows me to go up to a 5.00 lbs/hr setting for the highest. Even though the USSC states on the website it ranges from 2.00 to 6.00. Iam going to email them and see if i can't get a true answer on coming from the factory settings. And if that doesn't help, I will give them a call.

In the mean time, I am going to set the highest setting to 5.00 and lowest to 1.75 to give a bigger spread of the the 5 heat range setting. Another thing is if 1.75 and 4.50 were not factory settings then the draft fan scale might be off as well. So i'll be sure to add that into my email. Thanks again Imac and Smokey.

Also Smokey, you mentions things like blockage of the stove shells air slots.? What exactly are they?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Those are all of the gaps in the stove shell that let air into the shell, on most stoves there are a number of slots, louvers, or drilled holes in places on the shell that surrounds the heat exchanger. These are normally located somewhere close to the convection blower. This is where the room air enters the stove so it can be heated. All any of these stoves are is basically two pipes one handles the room air circulation in the blower, around the fire box and back out into the room, the other piece of pipe has a big bulge in the center called the firebox where the fire is, this sucks air in through the burning pellets and pushes it out the venting.

They are really simple devices, unfortunately the bells and whistles and a lot of other extraneous things get in the way.

Assuming things when trying to get a stove fixed is one of the biggest things to get in the way.

We still haven't nailed this, likely it will be a couple of things and I'm still concerned about the stoves response to the situation. I've seen the consequences of over fired devices they aren't pretty.

You are not the only 5xxx owner with issues in this area.

There was a member by the name of man-machine who was having trouble get an old timer up and running you might want to read through it especially the part when he had the insulation kind of off and fired it up https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/48836/

Here is a post you need to read it goes to the heart of the factory set rate according to the tech /delivered actual low firing rate on one of USSC's devices in this case a 6500 IIRC the factory tech said 6.5 lbs per hour was how it left the plant and it was actually 7.36 lbs per hour at https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewreply/953394/ now you have the procedure to actually look at the low firing rate set in that controller.


I'm still going down through the list of things that can lead to an over temperature situation and believe it or not there are other things, such as blockage of the stoves shells air slots by anything that might interfere with air flow into the shell.

Awesome find Smokey, I appreciate you going through the trouble of finding my problem. I didn't think to check the forums for anything other then the 5500M and 5510 stoves, I never would have thought that the 6500 had the same Control board. My control board only allows me to go up to a 5.00 lbs/hr setting for the highest. Even though the USSC states on the website it ranges from 2.00 to 6.00. Iam going to email them and see if i can't get a true answer on coming from the factory settings. And if that doesn't help, I will give them a call.

In the mean time, I am going to set the highest setting to 5.00 and lowest to 1.75 to give a bigger spread of the the 5 heat range setting. Another thing is if 1.75 and 4.50 were not factory settings then the draft fan scale might be off as well. So i'll be sure to add that into my email. Thanks again Imac and Smokey.

Also Smokey, you mentions things like blockage of the stove shells air slots.? What exactly are they?

 

[Rebel]

Ok, borrowed a Cannon Rebel Camera from a buddy of mine so hopefull I can get some pics out to you. I need to shut it down today for maintenance.

Haven't had the chance to call/email USSC yet due to family Halloween event. (We're huge into pumpkin carving.) But i plan to Email them asking for What the stove is supposed to be set at coming from factory and ready for use in the home. Right now the stove is running well on 4.25 lbs/hr Highest and 1.75 lbs/hour Lowest. Draft/Combustion fan running on setting 3 (Once called the USSC and they suggested 1-2 settings higher on the draft then the Heat Range Setting (feed rate).

Smokey, you're always talking about Snap discs in stove that pop when stoves overheat to protect it and that they need lubricated. Where are these generally located the only thing i see that compares to that is the "Pressure Switch" per the Manual.

Also, the manual does not show a heat exchanger and only talks about it briefly:

"As pellets enter the burn pot and ignite, outside air is drawn across the fuel and heated during the combustion process which is
then pulled through the heat exchanger by the exhaust motor or draft fan. As the stove heats up, room air is circulated
around the heat exchanger by means of a room air blower, distributing warm air into the room."

But the the combustion fan/ Draft fan goes almost all the way to fire box, only thing stopping it is one of the small Ash doors to the right. Does appear to pull any air across the heat exchanger.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Ok, borrowed a Cannon Rebel Camera from a buddy of mine so hopefull I can get some pics out to you. I need to shut it down today for maintenance.

Haven't had the chance to call/email USSC yet due to family Halloween event. (We're huge into pumpkin carving.) But i plan to Email them asking for What the stove is supposed to be set at coming from factory and ready for use in the home. Right now the stove is running well on 4.25 lbs/hr Highest and 1.75 lbs/hour Lowest. Draft/Combustion fan running on setting 3 (Once called the USSC and they suggested 1-2 settings higher on the draft then the Heat Range Setting (feed rate).

Smokey, you're always talking about Snap discs in stove that pop when stoves overheat to protect it and that they need lubricated. Where are these generally located the only thing i see that compares to that is the "Pressure Switch" per the Manual.

Also, the manual does not show a heat exchanger and only talks about it briefly:

"As pellets enter the burn pot and ignite, outside air is drawn across the fuel and heated during the combustion process which is
then pulled through the heat exchanger by the exhaust motor or draft fan. As the stove heats up, room air is circulated
around the heat exchanger by means of a room air blower, distributing warm air into the room."

But the the combustion fan/ Draft fan goes almost all the way to fire box, only thing stopping it is one of the small Ash doors to the right. Does appear to pull any air across the heat exchanger.

I don't believe I ever have said anything about lubricating snap discs, blower motors yes snap discs no.

Your stove has a temperature probe that attaches some where either the exhaust system or heat exchanger, and if it is where it should be the controller will give a flashing indication if the unit is overheating it uses a two stage overheating strategy, a lot of stoves use thermo snap discs to handle over heating. If your blower motor has thermal protection (highly likely) then it will thermal off to protect itself this blower needs to be cleaned and lubricated (if it has provisions to be lubricated) with the blower motor manufacturer's recommended oil.

The heat exchanger is a large metal thing that is actually part of the firebox and part convection air manifold. The combustion fan pulls air through the firebox, the burn pot is inside the firebox.