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Kioti tractors

Post in 'The Gear' started by wingsfan, Feb 21, 2012.

  1. wingsfan

    wingsfan Feeling the Heat

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    Anyone here have a kioti tractor? If sio how does it perform? How easy or hard is it to get parts for if you need them? We have been thinking of getting around a 30 -35hp tractor with a loader and the wife seen an add for a kioti and the price was way lower than a deere od kabota ( which I perfer), but if they hold up and the wife likes them a tractor is a tractor,,,,,,,,,,,,,right?...Just lookin for some reviews, all the reviews I have seen so far have been good ones. We will use it to brush hog, moving dirt for the yard and help my back moving variuos items the wife thinks I sould be able to move by myself.(wood, rocks,and other heavey things).

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  2. Highbeam

    Highbeam Minister of Fire

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    I have had a CK30 for about 5 years now and about 1100 hours of land clearing and mowing. It was about 4000 cheaper than an inferior model of Kubota. Parts have always been available and nothing special when repairs have been needed. I just haven't had to buy anything for it in so long. PM me if you have any more questions. I trailer the machine to my rural property so it is either working hard or sitting. Dang thing weighs 4500 lbs with loader and a mower so it is not a light weight machine.
  3. MasterMech

    MasterMech Guest

    Oh goody, CUTs! (Compact Utility Tractors)

    I don't own one but I used to take 'em apart for a living. Still do but it's not my primary job currently.

    If you're comparing against Deere's 3x20 series machines or Kubota Grand L 40 series machines then I'm sure the price difference is indeed big. Some may argue this but IMO the finer details do count so a tractor is not just a tractor. The biggest points on these units are Engine HP, Trans type, and Hydraulic System. Most brands are damn close on the first two when comparing apples to apples but that last one is a different story. You can have all the HP in the world but if you have a slow or worse, inefficient, hydraulic system then loader/backhoe work will frustrate you.

    You didn't mention which style of trans you were looking for but IMO unless you someone is giving you a free tractor, you want the hydro. There is no substitute for loader work and they hold up much better long-term. That dry clutch on a non-hydro tractor is a $3-4000 ticking time-bomb for maintenance. Of course how long it lasts depends on operator habits more than anything but if it's used on a loader tractor, then you WILL have to replace it eventually. Also on both Deere 3x20 and Kubota Grand L 40 series hydros, they're electronically controlled with some sort of torque management software that makes running the hydros at their full potential super easy and there is NO pedal feedback like there is for a mechanical hydro linkage. One thing I will ding Kioti for is the hockey-stick treadle pedal control on the HST. Kubota used to use the same part and switched to something much closer to Deere's twin touch pedals. The treadle pedals are IMO very awkward to use unless you have a size 19 shoe.

    Engines have never been a weak point on any of the three brands we're talking about here but Kubota has been caught "rounding up" before. :lol: Saw that demo in person!

    Kioti's loaders are a bit light on lift capacity (1150lbs) compared to Deere's 300CX (1600lbs) or the high cap option for Kubota (1800lbs!). Damn website won't give me a current model # and I can't remember it. >:-( All three are easily removed/"parked" with Kioti and Kubota looking to have identical mounting setups. Deere's loaders are ridiculously easy to park and swap front attachments on right out of the box. They have Deere's proprietary quick-connect setup stock but can also be setup with skid-steer attachment carriers which really opens up your attachment/bucket options. One nice feature of Deere's loaders are the pivot pins in every joint. They're cammed into the bushing so they always remain stationary forcing the joint to rotate around them and encouraging proper wear of the pin/bushing. They also have the grease fittings recessed into the ends and that makes lubrication a snap. The fittings are usually clean and never get snapped off from normal loader use. That's a very common problem especially for the ones located on the bucket pivot pin. Also you don't have to reposition the loader to get at the fittings. One-quick walk-around does the trick.

    Deere just plain does attachments better than anyone else. Especially with regard to loaders and backhoes. They fit better, attach easier, and parts are a non-issue in my experience. Most of the other manufacturers sub-out these things or use a universal attachment that is adapted to fit. Sometimes that gets messy.

    Deere also wins the hydraulic test with highest total pump flow. (Deere 13.9 vs Kioti 12.7) but I'm having trouble finding the spec on the implement pumps which are the ones that matter. Most tractors have two pumps now, one for steering and the other one for everything else. When I had access to all the dealer info, it was typical for Deere to have a bigger implement pump than competitive machines with similar total GPM ratings. Therein lies the secret of superior loader/backhoe cycle times! Also would be a consideration if you wanted to run say, a log splitter, off of the tractor hydraulics via a Power Beyond kit.

    To be continued!
  4. MasterMech

    MasterMech Guest

    Kioti seems to be building what Kubota did 10 years ago. That’s not a bad thing.

    Having had both green and orange tractors in many, many pieces, I can say they are both quality machines and I can find very little to pick on internally for either Kubota or Deere. Kubota’s external hydraulics used more hoses than I liked. They were an occasional maintenance point/failure and hoses always rob more power than hardlines. IIRC on everything on Deere’s recent CUTs (at least as far back as the 4x00 series) are completely plumbed via hardlines, which also helps keep heat/friction losses to a minimum.

    I also noticed differences in the electrical systems concerning the quality/type of connections used. For the most part Deere used WeatherPak connectors which are water tight and very reliable plus easy to disconnect for service. Kubota had more traditional blade-type terminals in open plastic connectors. Plus for heavy maintenance you had to disconnect all of the connections (bolt/screw type) from the engine and controls, pull the whole harness back to the rear of the tractor and then you could “split†the machine for access to the clutch/trans.

    Operator platforms and fit/finish were strong points for green machines too. I know everybody poo poos plastic but the uber-high quality stuff on the 3x20 series and 4x20 series tractors is amazing. It’s flexible at all temps, very very durable and green all the way through so scratches don’t look awful. It’ll never rust, dent or bend. It’s not painted so minor scuffs/scratches will not affect it’s long term aesthetic or durability. It's amazing how well a pressure washer will clean up a Deere that's piled high with mud and horse manure. I used to hate assembling new Kubotas because of the painted steel fenders and decks. It was waaaaay to easy to scratch paint while mounting parts to the tractor so it cost us (the dealer) to repaint parts on brand-new machines. Park a 10 year-old Kubota next to a 10 year-old Deere and assuming both machines have been used similarly, the differences are obvious.

    Of course green paint wins the resale game every time (by far!) too so that's a consideration if you ever see yourself upgrading or selling the machine down the road.
  5. oldspark

    oldspark Guest

    MasterMech-who builds the JD tractors you are talking about?
  6. MasterMech

    MasterMech Guest

    Deere builds every thing from the 3x20 tractors on up. The little ones, 2000 series, and I believe, but cannot confirm, the new 1000 series subcompacts are upgraded Yanmar machines. I do not know for sure where final Deere-ification is performed (Augusta GA?, According to the serials that start with LV.) The engines on the 3x20 series are Yanmars, Kanzaki Transmissions for the hydros, The 4x20 series are Deere engines and Kanzaki trans there too I think. 5000 Series are all Deere as far as I know. 3's, 4's, 5's are built in Augusta GA, 6's are Mannheim Germany, and 7's 8's & 9's are Waterloo IA to the best of my knowledge. Factory Cabs for the 3x20 and 4x20 series CUTs are built in Waterloo (Same plant they build the Ag tractor cabs in.) and shipped to Augusta. At least that's how they started doing it. Attachments like Loaders, Backhoes, Front-mount snowblowers, and all other Deere built attachments are built in Wisconsin at Horicon Works. Most of their 3pt attachments are supplied by Frontier (a subsidiary of Deere) and those are built by various vendors including but not limited to Harley, Danuser?, Landpride, and Woods. You can figure it out via the model # of the attachment but I don't have the list/breakdown anymore. If you're still with me, D100 series tractors are built in Greeneville TN BY DEERE :) (as all Lightning platform tractors have since introduced in 2003 as Sabre/Scotts, believe '04 was the first year for Deere branding.) X300 thru X700 :coolgrin: machines are built in Horicon Works as are most if not all of their commercial mowing equipment models. Deere does still do some private labeling, their snowblowers are built by Briggs And Stratton Power Products (as are Snapper and some Simplicity units), the residential (not the W models) walk-mowers are Snappers, and Briggs supplies pressure washers that you see at HD and Lowes. An excellent company called Mi-T-M (Mighty M) builds the rest of Deere's small equipment line, including water/trash pumps, more pressure washers, and generators as well. They also supply a lot of John Deere branded toolboxes, tools, air compressors, BBQ grills, heaters, pellet stoves, and wet/dry vacs.

    BTW: 2012 is the last year for Deere walk-mowers and snowblowers. Starting this year Deere dealers were given the option to carry Honda Power Equipment.

    Most of what you see/buy/use here is built in the USA but John Deere is a global company that manufactures/markets their products in several different countries around the world.

    If anybody spots errors in my info then please let me know as this was rattled off the top of my head!
  7. oldspark

    oldspark Guest

    I guess my point is some of the Green Paint you pay for comes from Japan.
  8. flyingcow

    flyingcow Minister of Fire

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  9. Highbeam

    Highbeam Minister of Fire

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    Very true, many folks don't realize that john-deere sells many many korean/chinese machines. Pretty sure everything a homeowner would buy is non-american. I've been told to get over this "made in america" kick and realize that we live in a global economy. My grandfather would never buy a japanese (foreign) television, no choice now.

    What size of machine are we talking about here? 30 hp? 50 hp? 90 hp? Makes a big difference.
  10. MasterMech

    MasterMech Guest

    I believe the OP is looking for something in the 30-40hp range based on his intended use.

    Where do you get Korean? JD has business in China but I'm not aware of any models being exported to the US, yet. FWIW: Kioti's are Korean.

    "Everything a homeowner would buy" is built in Greenville TN, Horicon WI, or Augusta GA. My geography teacher confirms that these places are still part of the USA. One might argue that 1000 and 2000 series tractors (18 - 30 HP, Sub-compacts and Small-frame compacts) are more Japanese (Yanmar/Kanzaki) than American but they are still assembled and painted right here in the USA. They are not carbon copies of Yanmars painted green, as they have features that are not present on a basic Yanmar. (Usually improved hydraulics and operator platforms/controls plus the hoods and fenders are unique to Deere.)

    I enjoy buying American and do so whenever their is a domestic product available that is of superior quality. Unfortunately, in my business (Outdoor Power Equipment Repair) American brands are keeping me busy and well fed. The MTD brands (Troy-Bilt, White, Yard-Man, Yard Machine, Cub Cadet [say it ain't so!], Ryobi, and of course Craftsman) Murray (before they folded), Briggs and Stratton, Tecumseh (before they went under as well, and others are widely considered "inferior" to the likes of Honda, Kawasaki, Robin Subaru, Stihl, Husqvarna, which are all brands that are considered "foreign" whether they manufacture some of their product in the USA or not.

    HighBeam is right in that you don't get much choice these days if you truly want to "Buy American." Find a lawn tractor with a Kohler or Briggs engine that doesn't have a Kanzaki Tuff-Torq transaxle under it. MTD is your best bet there but I thought we were after a quality machine that was going to last forever? :-S

    I have some of that green paint at home, I'll have to look and see where it was made but I'm pretty sure it wasn't Japan. ;-)
  11. wingsfan

    wingsfan Feeling the Heat

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    Thanks for all the info. Looks like we are going to look at the kiotis this saturday.Mastermch, that is one nice write up with alot of helpful info. Gives me some things to look for.Thanks again.
  12. oldspark

    oldspark Guest

    Mastermech-looked into tractors a while back and a bunch of the smaller JD have overseas parts in them, buying American aint what it used to be, I ended up with a ford and it aint American either, many people are shocked that Yanmar makes some of the JD stuff, Yanmar tractors have a very good reputation also.
  13. DanCorcoran

    DanCorcoran Minister of Fire

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    Manufactured goods are being built globally. America is becoming multi-racial and multi-cultural. Sigh...I think I'll have another glass of Scotch.
  14. oldspark

    oldspark Guest

    I thought about the Kioti tractors but they have not made it to the midwest yet, finially decided a new one was more money than I wanted to spend since I needed attachments for it also.
  15. ironpony

    ironpony Minister of Fire

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    but none of the other countries will let Americans or American products in

    go figure
  16. DanCorcoran

    DanCorcoran Minister of Fire

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    Uh, I think we've been exporting for the last 100 years. Another glass of (imported) Scotch...interesting to read about the Kioti tractors. I'd only heard of Kubota.
  17. MasterMech

    MasterMech Guest

    Kioti is certainly an "up and coming" brand. Getting very popular around here.
  18. Larry in OK

    Larry in OK Member

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    I've got a Kioti CK20S. It is their smallest model. I've had it a little over a year now and the only problem I've had with is it is a bolt in the loader joystick backed out. The dealer gave me the entire loader joystick rebuild kit to fix it. a drop of locktite has prevented any further problems there.
    I pull a 4' PTO tiller with it and it handles it with authority in my clay soil. The loader is rated at 1000# to full lift and has done everything I've asked it to do.
    In my opinion Kioti is a good machine.
    When it comes down to the bottom line your dealer will make or break the brand for you whatever color you buy.
  19. KodiakII

    KodiakII Feeling the Heat

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    They are crap! Do yourself a favor and buy a Kubota or a Bobcat. Remember the caveat- you get what you pay for!
  20. Highbeam

    Highbeam Minister of Fire

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    Listen here Kodiak. Bobcat tractors are made by Kioti. Are you serious? Did you really just step into that pile of poo?
  21. oldspark

    oldspark Guest

    Ok you need to back that up with facts, not fair to do a "fly by" and go hide, I have seen posts like this before about Kioti tractors on other forums and they could not back up what they said.
  22. wkpoor

    wkpoor Minister of Fire

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    Under a 100hp will all be built over seas. Its crap but the fact. I don't endorse JD but if you want the best insurance to be able to service it 20-30-40 or more yrs fro now that will be the brand. Several yrs ago I almost bought a Long. Dealer even said no guarantees. He was right as they went under. I do like many of he features on the Kioti but me personally wouldn't take a chance unless I had money to blow. Here today gone tomorrow. Kobota has proven their a long term company so that would be where I would gamble.
  23. peakbagger

    peakbagger Minister of Fire

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    Back when the US was starting to trade with the soviets, the ruble was worthless. US company's would sell products to the soviets and get paid with goods made somewhere in the soviet union. The US supplier would then sell the soviet goods wherever they could. I beleive Belaurus tractors were sourced that way. They had the reputation of being very rugged but with lots of quality issues. A friend looked at one and the dealer threw in a case of spare parts that would almost build another tractor. He was told up front that there was no long term support. They did have nice paint jobs and were dirt cheap.

    I think Northern Power used to get some of these soviet tractros long ago when they were starting out.

    If someone figures these off brands are disposable that got what they paid for but good luck if they want to keep them long term.
  24. oldspark

    oldspark Guest

    Dont think Kiotis are disposable.
  25. KodiakII

    KodiakII Feeling the Heat

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    Not hiding anywhere, just waiting for the shidt to hit the fan. Their "skid steer" is absolute junk, and their tractors are not far behind. I have a very close relative who works for a heavy equipment dealer, they won't work on them because parts are nothing but a head ache to try to get and for that reason they won't even take them in on trade. Broken down motors, cracked loader arms...they have seen it all. You Never see one in the trailer of a landscaper for a reason!
    There you go have at her boys! Say what you want buy what you want, but you will never change my mind!!

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