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Knowing when to stand your ground...

Post in 'DIY and General non-hearth advice' started by keyman512us, Sep 3, 2007.

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  1. Gooserider

    Gooserider Mod Emeritus

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    As a comment - I've done substitute teaching, and I have personally asked the kids about getting various substances - ALL said that it was difficult to get booze and tobacco because of gov't regs on ID checks, but the dealers didn't check ID's so it was very easy to get canibas and other harder drugs...

    The War on (some) Drugs IMHO makes the entire problem worse, in much the same way that Prohibition made (and still makes) our alcohol problems worse.

    It runs the price up, and increases the profit margins - this makes it a highly profitable business, worth fighting over, and without legal means of dispute resolution - look at the crime rates during Prohibition, and how rapidly they dropped after it no longer made sense to gun down the competition.

    It forces the customer to deal with underground people, who have a motivation to sell harder (and higher profit margin) drugs

    It runs up the costs for addicts so that they almost have to commit crimes to support their habbits - A hard core addict now needs over $100/day, hard to come by honestly, but I've seen published statements by our current pharmecuitical companies that they could PROFITABLY supply the same addict through the existing drug-store supply chain for $8-10/day, if it were legal, an amount the addict could get by panhandling if nothing else...

    It is dangerous for the consumer - there is no "quality control" - the stuff you buy today might be totally different from what you get tomorrow. This isn't a big deal with pot, unless it's laced w/ something (how do you know?) but with drugs that have potential for deadly overdoses, it is a major problem. Legal suppliers would presumably be forced to engage in some form of "truth in advertising" and QA rating, as well as avoiding dangerous addititves just to avoid legal liability -

    Since dealers are already breaking the law, they have no reason not to deal to kids - if it were legal you could somewhat discourage it by imposing some variant on the 'alcohol model' - a determined kid will get stuff no matter what you do (and it is foolish to pretend otherwise) but I've never been OFFERED the chance to buy black market Buttwiper or Camels, however I get offered illegal drugs all the time...

    That there are legal restrictions on substances encourages "binge drinking" and other abusive behaviour because you need to get all you can when the getting is good, because you don't know when the next chance will come around...

    Etc. Etc. I have never seen a "problem with drugs" argument that was used to push the War on Some Drugs that didn't really work out to be WORSE because they were illegal...

    No offense meant to individual low level LEO types, but I have often thought that the way our system works provides strong incentive on the part of our senior LEO types, Police Union officials, and such to push for laws against some drugs and other "consensual crimes" simply because it allows them to grow their budgets and sizes in order to "deal with the problem".... Besides it's probably safer and easier than chasing the few REAL violent criminals out there!

    Gooserider

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  2. keyman512us

    keyman512us Member

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    ***EDIT***....Well what started out as a "Public Service message" has turned into something else entirely...This is now a request FOR ADVICE...

    Keyman will be requesting advice (please refrain from commenting until the 'picture worth a thousand words is posted....PLEASE!!!!!!!!)

    ...Well WEB, I do enjoy your 'colorfull comments'...And I thank you for bringing some levity to a "somewhat close to home subject for me"....What started out as a "Look...Just take notice"...thread. A spotlight on "Good decisions...and bad ones" has "Morphed into something else entirely"...


    But As I said above it's now a request for advice...Keyman is "looking for a little inspiration...and a little motivation"...

    I've meet a lot of good people here on this forum...

    Whether it's been "in person" or through sharing their thoughts, their advice or just speaking from their own experience...

    I'de like to think I have some good friends here... After this post...I'm going to find out "Just exactly who my TRUE friends are..."

    I'll try to keep this as "On topic" as possible...but where the story starts and where it stops...depends on your perspective I guess...Some I'm going to call this one:

    .......The Story of the '3 Jay L's...'

    (PLEASE...Once again, in all seriousness folks I (Keyman) ask you to choose your words carefully...I'm asking for some advice...Please Refrain from 'chiming in' until the picture worth a thousand words is posted...)
  3. keyman512us

    keyman512us Member

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    ....Without "Turning this into a soap opera" or a diatribe to "refresh everyone's memory"....My original Post:

    ...Someone Motivated me by their willingness to "Take a stand"...

    That person's name...Is Jay Leger.

    "....Oh H^ll no...Some Drunk thinks he's gonna get behind the wheel and put other people's lives in Jeopardy...yeah you bet I'm gonna put a stop to it..."

    That was his response to my question "...BA (Jay's 'nickname': 'Bad attitude'..."

    ...A little history for folks..."We go way back...'back in the day'..."

    ...Years ago "The old 'crew' in G-Vegas" used to hang out "Down on Main Street (Place called 'Lovn Donuts'...Good Times...but they are gone...time marches on...Brooks Pharmacy's parking lot now occupies the site). But we still get together from time to time...

    ...The "...Young'ins Call us 'The old f^rts'..." yeah sure "we got no clue right???"

    I think back to how many times "I've stopped somebody from getting behind the wheel..."

    ..That's why I said:

    I'm sure "Everybody Glanced right over this one..." YUP...Nobody chose to comment...

    ...SO let's Clarify that first...

    ..I'm sure anyone in the "Human services line of work" (choose your proffession, Police officer, counselor, therapist...whatever line of work where you have to deal with people on a day to day basis) can attest to this one BUT from the view of a police officer that has pulled someone over for bad driving??? Some folks shouldn't have been driving in the first place...Talk to a drunk driver "The next day (when sober)" and you would be amazed at some of the stories... well that is of course assuming they are still alive...paints a pretty good picture why they were in "the condition they were in BEFORE they started drinking in the first place..."

    So why bring this up????


    "Moments frozen in time...But time will WAIT for no one..."


    "The other night while talking with (two) friends as (Dr. 'D'..)... the conversation turned to good cheer....just like old times...in more ways than one...I decided to share a story. Three people read the story about a WIDOW...It's a "Tale about how people's actions can be percieved differently... how seemingly INNOCENT actions, if not followed by the right actions can do HARM..."





    ....A woman's HEART is not to be PLAYED around with.

    Some people learn this lesson the hard way...some never learn at all....
  4. keyman512us

    keyman512us Member

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    ....But alas we "All have things to do in life..."

    ...In our daily lives we have to choose which items (tasks at hand) we have to spend our most valuable possesion on...it's a commodity we place little signifigance on...but one deserving our attention. That commodity is called TIME.


    One eternal truth we all know from the moment we are born is that TIME is not everlasting...

    Taking five minutes out of your day for a friend...maybe to take five minutes to talk them out of driving home 'while impaired', maybe taking five minutes to drive them home??? Either or both?


    Five minutes?? Can feel like forever...or it can feel like five years...depends on how long you are willing to WAIT to help out a friend...and it all depends on your PERSPECTIVE. It' a rather unpleasant situation to be in...sometimes you are better off just letting a drunk "rant and rave"...
    Recently I had to drive a 'drunk' home that I had considered a friend...and was "fought all the way" on it. I expected this person to be man enough to apologize or choose some decent words at the least. He instead chose to "break b^lls" about it...Started yelling at me for taking his keys and started trying to push me around...we ended up in a 'tussle'...(wrestling) and I pinned him on the ground...trying to hold back 'beating some sense into him'...The words come to mind:

    "You should live everyday as if it was your last..."

    ...Only words I can think of that come to mind. "Not while I'm willing to take the keys..." but I hope 'his friends' will do the same "if there is a next time"...


    ...I pause and reflect. At one time, at a very low point in my life, "I looked towards spiritual help". While reading an article termed "How firm a Foundation" I needed someone to talk to...So I decided to place a phone call to the author of that article...after an introduction his kind words to me were (percieved to me at the time...I'm just too busy...write me a letter) At the time I wasn't too much in a "good enough condition to write anything...my thoughts weren't too clear...there was something that just wasn't right"...But when a "man of the cloth asks you to do something...perhaps it's wise to do it, even if it's five years later"...If a preacher doesn't have five minutes to talk to someone "who feels or might be deeply in trouble"...



    How LUCKY should you consider yourself that a friend thought enough to take the time to drive you home???



    ....Now my thoughts weren't too clear, as I said...I didn't know how to "Put things on paper...perhaps I still don't...." but time marches on. What was important then might not be so now....Just glad I made it through with little to no help...

    But as they say "G^d works in mysterious ways"...


    At any rate...Back to the story at hand:

    Deja Vu....

    ..Talking with friends...My how the roles do change....I thought the past was put to rest. Someone was lurking in the SHADOWS. As friends were talking and laughing...Someone was lurking going from one parking lot to the other... (almost to the point of STALKING...just can't leave well enough alone BUT in the SHADOWS....going from one parking lot to the other" WHY??? To be noticed? To drive a point across? (Depends on perspective...and perspective comes down to whose eye's you view things through).


    ...A moment "frozen in my mind" was saying "Good night to friends..."





    "....Sometimes all that is needed is a little time and space...Some Men need to be told some don't...depends on exactly what that man has on his mind...":


    ...A person's true judgement of charachter (not that I even remotely want to 'be a judge here') is measured in their words most often times...A man of HONOR would have no reservation of having his actions scrutinized... A person's actions speak louder than their words...




    ....I headed home for a good nights sleep. I passed by someone, (Jay Lan___) sitting alone in his truck...that looked like he needed someone to talk to..."I can't do this...not tonight...I need a good nights sleep...IVE GOT THINGS TO DO" Even in light of the current situation (recent events) I decided to pick up the phone and place a call to (one of two friends I was talking to) to say:


    "I just saw Jay"...

    ....And then what comes next???? (Relax..'Everything is allright'...Or is it???)

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  5. keyman512us

    keyman512us Member

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    YUP....So much for a quiet night "heading home"...

    ...It happened again...YUP came across another drunk driver that crashed. I can't even begin to count how many times I've been through this...Why ME???

    "...All I wanted to do was talk with friends and then get a good nights sleep"

    NOPE...Nothing doing.

    (Look at the two pictures below..."Is the Driver fine...or is she???"...Look at it again..."She walked away" or did she???...The second photo showing the police officer could very well have easily been searching the car after a fatal accident... Where would the driver be then???)

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  6. keyman512us

    keyman512us Member

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    "Go Home...That's all I want to do..."

    So who has said that??

    ...I said that...that night. "I've had a good time with friends (keep the perspective in mind now)"

    I got to "Laugh and have a good time with friends....Everything was right at that moment"

    "Friends in the picture...Friends out of the picture"

    "That Night I found out who my true friends are"

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  7. keyman512us

    keyman512us Member

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    So "What Happened"???

    Well for the driver of this particular car...

    "When I got involved"...

    "I gotta find my phone" she kept saying to me "Miss...The phone is right there in your hand...Do me a favor and SIT DOWN" I said to her as I watched the blood dripping from cuts on her arms and face...

    "I gotta find my phone"... "Miss forget about the phone (as I'm trying to talk to the DISPATCHER and let her know what's going on)... "Yeah...You wanna roll Woods Ambulance there is some PI INVOLVED but the driver is alert and somewhat co-herant"

    "I gotta find my phone".... "Allright that's enough Miss SIT YOUR A^S down and shud-up"...

    ...As she continues to search for something in her car....for what I didn't know at the time...

    "Allright MISS...you got two choices either a ride in the ambulance or..." ...At this point it get's interesting. What she was searching for????

    I think... a little searching and we all found out.

    ...Seems she was crawling around inside the car searching "For her phone" which sounded strange to me because she had her phone right there in her hand...she seemed to be reaching for her pocketbook... which it turns out...

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  8. keyman512us

    keyman512us Member

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    ...."YUP that's it...We're placing you under arrest for"

    ...Seems the reason she "Wanted her phone" was becuase her "Phone (pocketbook) contained a fairly substantial amount of pot"...

    So what happened?

    She (initially) refused the ambulance ride...and was subsequently placed under arrest....The one image that stuck out in my mind though????

    ...The last one below. In the condition she was in...

    ...The bottle was laying there on the ground.

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  9. keyman512us

    keyman512us Member

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    ..."Where were her friends when she needed them most???"

    ...Bet this has been said a few times.

    "...Before you get behind the wheel...ask yourself if you were in a good enough condition to drive BEFORE you started drinking...Then ask yourself the same question AGAIN...Be your own best friend...use your head...if that doesn't work...whether it's a stranger or a friend DON"T ARGUE and don't make a big deal about it with those that care...DON'T BE STUPID...SHUDDUP' AND LISTEN FOR ONCE IN YOUR LIFE!!!...And if need be don't wait to be asked to get involved when you know the right thing to do...

    ...Apply the same standard to all..If you really care about someone (as a friend)you will knock some sense into them.

    "If someone SNAGS YOUR KEYS...wait until you are in the right frame of mind... before you expect to have them back"...then be big enough to either apologize or say "Thank You"...

    "Why won't somebody just tell me what's going on.... Why won't anybody talk to me???"

    ......Maybe even both.
  10. keyman512us

    keyman512us Member

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    ....So this leads me to my next point "Where Keyman asks for advice from his friends???"

    (again hold off on comments until I finish the story)...

    ...Well I typed what I wanted to say and almost ran out of room to type...and the screen froze up.

    ...At any rate, I was at a party and ended up "babysiting" a drunk person (again)...Some words were exchanged, A fight almost broke out and at this point I'm trying to avoid a person that really needs to "grow up"...

    ...First I gotta figure out exactly how I'm going to approach this...so for now I'm gonna figure this one out for myself...

    Gibbon, B11...

    ..Thanks for the kind words...I'm still a little shaken up by the other night.
  11. keyman512us

    keyman512us Member

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    (I'm still a little shaken from everything that has happened)

    ....So in light of "Current Events"...There is a concept that I heard about "In the news" entitiled "If you had One Day"...If you think this thread is 'morbid' actually stop and think of "How Morbid the concept of One Day" actually is... but on that note:

    ..."I'll take a stab at it" so to speak. I guess I would do two things maybe three (at the same time)...Hey this is the age of multi tasking right???

    ...I would continue to 'Pause and Reflect' daily but I would also offer a kind word and perhaps say things that were neglected to be said....

    ....Years ago when I "had to get away from it all" I would drive to Hampton Beach New Hampshire to watch the ocean...often times I shouldn't have been driving to say the least...sober or not... I guess all the times when I wasn't sober I just wanted a friend to care enough to say "Just STOP...think about what you are doing". I wanted someone of the female persuasion (....'my twin' although there was a 'word inserted' subconciously without any recognition on my part...but it sums up how much of my actions could be percieved...despite best intentions)... only one person cared enough to say "D___ Hand over your car key NOW!"

    ...I never argued you're a sister to me....Thank you Mary R. aka 'Red'

    'Back in high school days' I had a very good friend I loosely considered 'my best friend' some people thought 'we were twins' We acted alike, we partied, did 'runs to Hampton' with friends, hung out etc. People sometimes couldn't tell us apart. Getting bagged for skipping school 'during lunch hour' the dean of students would say his name asking if it was my name...thats how closely alike we were.

    My car was a 'red rocket ship' and moved...little more power than a 17 year old kid shoulda had. We 'ran past my house' to a long straight-away. "Wanna see the quarter mile"??? He looked puzzled "Err aghh Yeah Sure..." I positioned the car right on the center line "Do me a favor...put on your seatbelt kid..." and he did. "Hey ain't you gonna wear yours???" he asked.

    Didn't care as long as my 'brother' was safe... "if we crashed on takeoff' I didn't want to be around to deal with the consequences.
  12. keyman512us

    keyman512us Member

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    ...So (That Night in 1991) instead of taking the fork in the road to the right (SR 202 & 2A) we "avoided something unpleasant"... Something 'told us' not to go down that road (Patriots Road). We always felt we had "Guardian Angels" I think it had to do with not being consumed in a fire...probably saved our lives and we knew it...something to be thankfull for.


    Later the next day we found out there was a car crash... Two friends driving in a car somewhere on that road...seems they went off the road and...hit a tree.


    Two lives lost in the blink...(getting hard to write now) but "had we not taken the longer way home...who really knows???"


    ...So I'm at a party (at a friends house...down on 'memory lane'...I just told you the name of the road...Paying attention YET?) And my thoughts are drifting off...don't know why...Something is telling me to get up and "Walk away...just get away from all these idiots"...I'm thinking to myself "I got no car...I didn't feel like driving here today....I knew there was a party later that night...I knew the person who invited me to the party has a policy "No drinking and driving...you leave your keys with her...but was that all I was thinking???" Then someone says "Take Jay's truck (to JBM) and go get some wood to throw into the fire...".....So I grab J__ La__ (who at this point...we'll call 'the drunk') And stuff him into the truck "Yeah Yeah Kid you just want someone to talk to Yeah Yeah, Why won't anybody talk to me....Yeah Yeah, you wanna go down memory lane... I don't need or want to know how to put this POS truck in four wheel drive truck...my last friend with the initials' J-L let me take his truck and his keys anytime I wanted EITHER...besides we're only going up the paved road to get pallets...no four wheel drive necessary....you dumb drunk! I don't care who's truck it is... you're breaking my golden rule...'I'm behind the CONTROLS, no open container in the cockpit'.... Easy to speak words?? How easy would it have been for you to listen??? Did you ever hear a word I said the entire night??? (By the way you almost 'winged me with a pallet'...)

    The wood get's unloaded...

    "Jay needs a pack of smokes" I wonder who that was that said that???

    ...Jay shouldn't have been on the road...he shouldn't have even been allowed as a passenger in the car distracting the driver...but someone said to go"...

    What's your take on this one folks in the 'audience'...??? Think this person just wanted him to leave and quit bothering all the guests at the party??? Maybe the least favorite guest get's tasked with being a taxi driver twice??? (Here is where keyman is looking for your opinion folks)

    Think everyone at the party was sick of 'the drunk' and the way he was acting??? Now keep in mind another 'drunk' wasn't even invited... matter of fact the party was kept 'secret' from him.

    I asked the person that invited me to the party "Why don't you just turn your back on Jay?? Give him some time to think about it??" Fair enough question right?? Somebody needs to show him how to act...."Do you wanna see him in a pine box?? He's gettin' outta hand...everyone is walking away from him..."

    "I just can't do that to Jay"...So this one has been nagging at my craw folks "Why??...You sure didn't have any problem turning your back on me and telling me where to go??? But hey I'm thankfull, probably saved my life". So I would ask this person "Why can't you??" Becuase you care about him too much to 'hurt him' (hey we're big boys little girl...whatever don't kill us makes us stronger)... Or is it because you can't "bear the pain to be without him"??? On the surface that troubles me 'little girl'... Cause' if you're the only one who can "get through to him"...he's ^$cked!!! If he thinks of you "as his momma" you better start acting like one! Cause he's gonna need it...your 'little puppy dog' needs to grow up if he wants to run with "The big Dogs"....Like I always say "If you wanna run with the big dogs...don't................like a puppy"


    Who's standing their ground folks???

    ...So off we go in the truck to get smokes... I ain't letting this person behind the wheel. He can';t even think straight enough to hold a conversation...yeah he'll make it to the store....sure.

    ...The way he has been acting lately??? Shouldn't be behind the wheel 'Sober'...

    Now his POS truck is so scarry I don't want to be in the thing going down the road...Let alone be 'Driving it'... Under 25MPH at night, on a state road...yeah this behavior doesn't scream to a cop "Hey come get us" does it????

    We get to the store..YUP two MSP cruisers right in the entrance to the store. "Time for a missed approach"...alternate place to land. So the whole time he's carrying on "Where are we going I don't have enough gas to get (as he's 'texting and talking' on his cell phone)...Nice "Drinking and dialing" ....

    .....Glad I ain't getting those phone calls tommorow.
  13. Gooserider

    Gooserider Mod Emeritus

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    Sounds like you did right to take care of the drunk, but the general situation sounds like you need to be wondering about who your friends are, and whether the next time they invite you to a party it would be better if you has a "prior engagement" elsewhere...

    I have taken keys on occasion, but I've decided that I feel more comfortable in gatherings where it isn't necessary...

    Gooserider
  14. keyman512us

    keyman512us Member

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    So at what point would you have said "Goodnight little boy" ..........WHACK!!!!!

    Honestly..."How many guy's would put up with this behavior...from a stranger??? Let alone someone you considered a friend???

    "....Why won't anyone talk to me...Why won't anyone..(as he's texting and trying to talk on his phone)... " Keep in mind...You can't keep this kids attention when he's sober....try it drunk.

    ....But hey, somebody drove him home that's all that counts... or does someone 'need more than that' ???

    Hey...I ain't 'snow white'....yeah there's been lotsa times I shoulda snagged someone's keys... But you know what... if I don't think you would hand your keys over willingly when your sober... Why should I bother when you are drunk... If you're that bad...I'll place an anonomous call to the cops instead...

    Hey 'little drunk' what did I do that was so wrong you had to act so immature that night at Dunkin's and "Cause a Scene"??? You couldn't have been "Man enough" to ask to speak about it 'without an audience'???? You just had to push things...You're lucky 'a certain somebody was standing there' because if not...(use your imagination for once 'sport') when you tried to push your way up off the gound from under me and that little 'tussle' of a wrestling match... back when I was 25...(frenchman's temper need I say more)..."

    ....How do you feel now that the whole world knows about it??? Think maybe that day you shoulda been more concerned about "What can I say or even do to make it right"??? Instead of trying to score a date with some convience store worker on her break???

    It get's better though...

    I drive him and his truck to my house to grab my truck...TO TAKE HIM BACK TO THE PARTY.. Now this isn't good enough though "I don't wanna leave my truck at your house I need it in the morning...blah blah blah"...

    SO I go above and beyond AGAIN...Drive him and his truck across G-Vegas (with my mountain bike in the back) so I can get back to my house to get my truck to come pick him up to take him back to the party...Course I made sure to grab the ignition key before I handed him his keys back so he could at least go back into his house...

    ...Then he starts screaming at me halfway down the block (yeah his neighbors must have loved that little outburst...glad he was thinking of others at that point)...


    So then the 'soap opera phone calls start'...everybody calls everybody else because Jay is all upset... "He needs someone to talk to...." Well where were his friends when he needed them most... didn't see anyone offer to drive him home...

    Nobody wanted to 'ruin their own night'??? ...They all didn't seem to mind "that he was gone from the party"... Nobody seemed to care enough to BE IN THE SAME CAR WITH HIM...

    ....They all went into high gear though to make sure his key got back to him though. C.C. I handed you his ignition key.... you remember my exact words to you???

    "I'm giving you this ignition key... it's in your hand...whatever happens frrom here... You answer to Stephanie on it... it's no longer my responsibility to 'babysit Jay'..." and I meant it.

    So what happened?? You gave the key back to Jay...What did he do...went for a ride...

    ...I am no longer 'his babysitter' I'll leave that task to his friends... (if he has any left).

    ...Jay feeling uncomfortable??? How's it feel bud?? Maybe we shoulda talked about it YOU walked AWAY from the 'FRIENDS TABLE' to choose instead:

    Funny how the roles reverse sometimes... Let's compare five years ago...Shall we?????

    Years ago...A friend asked another friend to "Stay Away" Just recently... A friend tried to "bring friends back together (even drove a friend home).." In the past... a friend asked you to speak to someone he couldn't talk to... Why???

    Because he was told to shut his mouth "When I tried talking to h__ about it...the second I mentioned your name... BANG

    ...You never got the message 'little drunk' you gotta be truthfull... all the lies lead up to one big 'train wreck'...

    ...How truthfull and how good of a friend have you been lately??? To yourself?? To others???

    ...On a night long ago I 'Stayed Away'... I asked you to talk to Stephanie for me because I couldn't... five years ago what was I saying to all her friends "It's all about her"....

    How concerned have you been about her lately???

    ..."Tell you're tale Jay" Be honest. You're her best friend (supposedly).

    Are you that dumb to see if she is avoiding YOU of all people maybe there is a problem???

    One day I told you to "JUST TAKE NOTICE" driving down the highway...then what happened that night?

    Bad choices lead to a bad outcome. Just trying to get you to slow down and stop doing things to yourself and others... You really should take other peoples' feelings into account every once in awhile...

    I made a decision long ago... I knew how she felt ABOUT YOU and tried to talk to YOU as a friend, as a brother, as an elder.... so perhaps you would "See the picture in a different light"...

    I had strong feelings for her... The words I asked you to tell her I cannot remember...not important... I stayed away...I gave her time to sort her thoughts... I put my feelings aside for hers... So she could have a little room to breathe and think clearly...

    ...How much time and space were you giving her recently when you were jumping from parking lot to parking lot??? (Ask yourself)Whose thoughts were you more worried about???

    But I'm sure you were worried about HER right??? Jealous of someone being able to laugh and have a good time with friends??? What's ammata' Jay... You want someone to "Just take notice of you....want someone to talk to???

    Want someone to be your friend?? Try BEING one for a change...
  15. keyman512us

    keyman512us Member

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    So 'little drunk'...Do I have your attention yet??? So you wanna talk...Go talk with someone else... you seem to have no problem talking with anyone now to avoid a conversation a mutual friend wants us to have...

    'Give and take'...???

    What's ammata' Jay??? "You can give it but not take it when it comes to criticism???"

    Take??? You got no problem when it comes to the generousity of friends.... You can't give an apology???

    Still not enough????

    I think back to five years ago when you said "Everything was fine then when I mentioned your name...BANG!"

    Well just recently... I grabbed the cell phone to call one of the two friends you have left to let them know "You looked like you needed someone to talk to.."

    Didn't have time... there was an accident where a girl was hurt...

    Was kinda eerie and I'm still shaken up by it...

    Course it's truthfull... Perhaps more so than your words when asked "What Happened" and you said "Everything was fine then when I said your name...BANG!" ...Yeah Jay I'll always remember those words...thanks for telling me that...

    Tell you what sport...I'm going to apologize for being stupid enough to try to talk sense into you over the years as your friend. Don't worry about trying to find words ... Just keep that in mind next time you "Try to manipulate Stephanie with your 'puppy dog eye's...If you haven't learned not to play around with a woman's heart by now...you never will....G______!!! "

    Hard words Jay???..."My bark is worse than my bite"... Now Imagine it's Stephanie's voice...



    "But you don't have time"... Okay The time I wasted talking to you over five years 'talking and walking down the tracks"...It's on the train kid... Don't worry 'train wreck'... You're behind the controls "of the crazy train"...



    ..."I'm joining the birds" before it's too late...



    ...My words to Stephanie (since I can never get one in edge-wise) someone I care about very deeply...I decided long ago to follow my own advice and 'move on with life'...between all the outside forces at work against it... "memory lane and burning bridges" I chose to share that sentiment from an article...becuase the words I just couldn't say... If J__ L____ is your best friend... And always will be...I don't need the head-aches attached...you seem to be doing just fine........ with those you consider your friends....if five years is only worth five minutes...then fifteen years has taken a heavy toll on you....even as a friend.


    "Later Kid!" Maybe you shouldn't still be 'walking the tracks' if you can't hear so good...let alone be behind the controls.... (Joining' the birds') because the DISPATCHER seems a 'little stressed out'...at any rate "I don't wanna see how far down the tracks you get before there's a 'corn field meet'..."


    ....Who is saying what to who? Doesn't matter....not anymore.



    Hopefully the words sink in so when you do find someone you trully care about......suffice to say there will be less painfull decisions for the both of you......

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  16. keyman512us

    keyman512us Member

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    ...Goose, Thanks for the kind words...I'm pretty much thinking that way.

    I'm leaning towards "keeping a distance from 'friends' right now because...collectively if they were to stop and analyze how they are treating themselves and others around them...they might find they are their own worst enemies"...

    I just hate to see "the young'ins" act like they "need a babysitter"...
  17. keyman512us

    keyman512us Member

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    Bottom Line Folks....

    ...If you see friends or family in trouble, take a couple minutes "to get involved"...

    ...A total stranger could be someone else's best friend or loved one.

    Acting like still in High School???

    Depends upon the perspective... A friend was a member of SADD....I was a member of SADD and "Peer Leader"...

    ...After high school life get's tough.

    I can't say how many times I've 'dealt with drunks'....At parties, at my home or someone else's and the worst of all "at the side of the road"...

    If YOUR TIME becomes a factor in having to help who first...ask yourself if they would do the same for you...and go from there.


    The true costs of alcohol....? A happy child, 'streets of dreams', a yearly celebration...depends on one's perspective in life I guess...

    "One's own Celebration? Or that of a friend...

    "Won't be any pleasant one this year......regardless of when it is observed"


    "......................................................................................................Crosses.........................................................................."

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  18. Gooserider

    Gooserider Mod Emeritus

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    I know, it can be a difficult problem sometimes... I call such people "Toxic Friends" - those folks you like, perhaps want to help, but who seem to do nothing but go from one bad situation to another, and cause problems for you and anyone else you introduce them to.

    The question is how far down their hole will you allow them to drag you? When does "compassion fatigue" start to kick in, and make you wonder what ever made you want to help them in the first place, but at the same time you don't totally want to kick them out of your life, because what is the responsibility if they then do something really dumb and hurt themselves or others?

    In one case, we have finally set limits on what we will and won't do for that person, and told him that we felt abused by his demands so these were the limits we were imposing... We still see him, but we also keep a social distance - this hurts but we feel that we also need to protect ourselves.

    Gooserider
  19. keyman512us

    keyman512us Member

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    Goose...
    ...Kind and inspirational words (I thank you)... I'm trying to inspire a friend to choose wisely.

    "Seeing as you are a teacher" (and moderator) Any chance we could get this "Forward to perhaps SADD" to inspire the younger generation a bit???

    ..."How to inspire look towards your inner strength...for the hard road ahead in life"
  20. Gooserider

    Gooserider Mod Emeritus

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    I don't know about SADD - it seems like they don't live up to their reputation - or maybe they do? Seems from what I saw in the Tewksbury schools was that SADD was regarded as a "Drop-a-Dime" group, and it's members were mostly the "good kids" that didn't really need it, while the kids that did had no trust for them, and didn't want anything to do with the SADD students. So when you talk to SADD, you are basically preaching to the choir.

    I think the problem is the official intolerance towards "risky behaviour" these days...

    All the programs of this sort are aimed at eliminating the behaviour totally - not controlling it and directing it safely. It's "DON"T Drink!" not "Don't drink and be stupid" It is DARE that still pushes "reefer madness" and so on. This is ignoring reality - as far back as we can trace human history, people have been seeking to alter their mental state for religious or recreational reasons.

    So we have programs like DARE, that lie to kids about the low risks of pot, which the kids figure out quickly are lies, because they KNOW fellow students that toke and pass... So you've lied to us about pot, why should we believe you when you tell us how bad crack is?

    The town one of my cousins grew up in many years ago had a system - there was a farmer that had a field down by a creek - every Saturday night the local kids would drive down with their collected (illegal) purchases of booze and other things... Round about 10:00, the farmer would show up, share ONE beer, and collect all the car keys, then go off to bed. The kids would party, probably more than they really should, but nobody did any driving till the farmer showed up the next morning and handed out the keys... Did the parents know what was going on? Probably... The cops? Certainly... But a blind eye was carefully kept, because reality was acknowledged - that the kids in question WERE going to get drunk / stoned, but this method kept them off the streets. There was also peer pressure to keep some level of control and not "mess up a good thing" by allowing someone to get seriously injured...

    Today the farmer would be busted for "contributing to the delinquency..."

    SADD tries to keep the kids from drinking entirely - ain't gonna happen! They would IMHO be far more effective if instead they focused on if you must drink, do it responsibly and maybe even set up a few safe fields like that famer did...

    Gooserider
  21. keyman512us

    keyman512us Member

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    My words to Stephanie???

    ...Gonna put this in RailRoad terms 'little girl'... Choo-Choo trains are "Shiny Objects" (kinda like men)...The DISPATCHER keeps the chaos to a minimum when there are a lot of trains....

    ...If the dispatcher runs across an "out of control train" the decision is made to switch it to a dead end to protect the others...

    You got a 'train wreck on your hands' sooner or later... sooner or later it will have a cost if it doesn't already...


    Be Strong...
  22. keyman512us

    keyman512us Member

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    That's a good way to look at it....

    I don't want to get dragged down any further than I already have been...

    I'm gonna "keep a distance"... From 'toxic friends'....

    Thanks...
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