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KT302 Blaze King New guy

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by greythorn3, Oct 8, 2007.

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  1. greythorn3

    greythorn3 Minister of Fire

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    Hello all my name is Ray and I am from Anchorage Alaska.. I picked up a KT302 Blaze King from a guy the other day that has some cracked fire bricks, missing ceramic inserta on the front.. I am going to attempt to clean this stove and replace the cracked fire bricks and reaplce the door seal and use it in to replace my wood fireplace.. since my fireplace doesnt do much then give off some radiand heat but is mostly for looks.. Any how i got it for 50$ maybe if its good enough to install after i check it out.. i would liek to think about getting a door with a window on it, or buying ceramic glass and adding a window to the door.. I was raised on farm in Minnesota and all we had was wood for heat but it was a much larger 6' tall wood stove that had a very large capacty and no window HA HA :) but i know nothing about these little buggers.. everyone I talk to in Alaska here says BLAZE KING is the best.. so i got one for a deal.. It will be supplumental heat not for only source... just to being it up 10 or 15 degrees when guests come over or to keep the bills a little down on the gas when it get -20 on the cold snaps

    Thanks for your guys help! Another forum I have joined! cant get ENOUGH info.

    Ray

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  2. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    Welcome aboard,
    I'm not real familiar with Blaze king, but something else to look in your stove is the catalytic converter. I believe most Blaze king stoves have them. If it looks ok, no cracks or falling apart ask the guy how old it is. They usually need replacing every 3-5 years depending on use and abuse. Does it have a manual? If not maybe you can contact Blaze King or find one on the net. It will help you understand the stove and give installation instructions. Good luck.
  3. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

  4. greythorn3

    greythorn3 Minister of Fire

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    ya i downloaded the pdf manual.. it was before cats in them.. hehe i wont be adding a cat either.. old school! hehe ya i seen at ace hardware they have firebricks i can buy to replace cracked ones in mine,, do you really need to replace cracked ones? or doesnt it matter, cause if it dont matter i wont replace them..

    Ray
  5. Gooserider

    Gooserider Mod Emeritus

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    Depends on how bad they are cracked. If it's just hairline cracks, or even cracks that go all the way through, but the peices are all holding together well, it probably doesn't matter. If the cracks are big and the bricks are falling apart, or there is material missing, then you need to worry about it.

    Also in many stoves bricks that are on the sides or top of the stove body are more critical than the ones on the floor. Generally it is reccomended to keep an inch or two of ash on the bottom of the stove, so cracks in the bottom bricks generally get filled in wth ashes. Obviously this doesn't happen with side and top bricks.

    It probably isn't possible to retrofit a cat into the stove you have if it wasn't designed for one, but you might want to consider upgrading the stove at some point in the future - you'll pollute less with a cat, and get more heat out of your wood pile.

    Gooserider
  6. greythorn3

    greythorn3 Minister of Fire

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    i will post some pics of the old bugger tomarrow if i remmeber.. ya some of the bricks chunks are missing i will replace them and the ones that are just cracked in half i might leave...

    Ray
  7. greythorn3

    greythorn3 Minister of Fire

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    ok sorry i forgot about htis, well ive burned it in my back yard to get he old crap out heres some pics of it, still looking for 8 in stove pipe and recomendations of taking out my fireplace to put this wood stove in its place.. heres my wood stove and heres my fireplace i wanna take out to put the wood stove there.. im gonna make the hearth go to the floor so the wood stove can sit on it... also im goign to increase the stone opening size.. this is a fireplace on a exterior wall with a outside chase for it.. please offer suggestions.. im all ears. ive started repainting the stove also..

    Ray

    woodstove when i got it home

    [​IMG]

    first burn in the woodstove in yard..

    [​IMG]

    my current fireplace

    [​IMG]
  8. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Personally, I'd retire the old smoke dragon and get a decent EPA stove or insert. The old BK is going to cost a pretty penny to install and operate. It's meant to be a freestanding stove and looks too large for the space. These old stoves could throw the heat, but ate cords of wood like candy. This looks like a nice setting. It would look better with an insert IMHO.
  9. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    I think for the time, effort and money it would take to tare out the fireplace and safely install that old stove, you could buy a new insert that would burn cleaner, more efficient and save tons of firewood.
  10. wendell

    wendell Minister of Fire

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    +1
  11. Gooserider

    Gooserider Mod Emeritus

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    I agree with the previous posters - that stove is a beast - it will cost you far more in time and materials to adapt your present setup to fit it into the existing space as opposed to putting in a modern insert or smaller EPA stove, and I doubt that you would be happy with the results...

    You don't say how big your fireplace room is, but I suspect that unless it's a really huge room, that stove will drive you out when it's firing well, and you may well lose a large part of your space to the required clearance to combustibles... I think you should take a really serious look at the existing setup and your heating needs and figure out just what would really work for you. I don't think that BK is it.

    That stove looks more like something that would be suitable for use in the middle of a hunting camp or other large space, probably only on an intermittent basis due to it's appetite for fuel...

    Gooserider
  12. Frostbit

    Frostbit Feeling the Heat

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    Welcome Anchorage...I am in Nome.

    I have that era Blaze King, in a Princess model (just smaller) in my cabin. Have run it for 25 years now. The only thing I have replaced is the door gasket. You can get a rope gasket at any stove dealer. I also have a glass-front door for mine, as well as the full steel one. In all honesty, I never use the glass door. Airwash technology back then was poor at best, and it was forever dirty. You may be able to get the door and side ceramics from Blaze King, I don't know. Its worth writing them and asking. If not, you can have a pottery artist make them in whatever color glaze you want to accent your room. Custom as you wish. Mine happens to be a blower model, so the side ceramics have diamond-shaped holes in them for the heated air to pass through to the room, pushed by the blower in back.

    Its a great stove, over-night burns are no problem due to its large firebox.

    I do tend to agree with some of the group that fitting it in place of your insert might pose a lot of work and expense, but that's entirely up to you. I will say that this stove is highly regarded, still, in bush Alaska as a formidable heat monster, and it works very well, still, for a 25 year old unit. If nothing else, make a project out of it. Sand it down and repaint, re-brick, make some nice ceramics up and put it up for sale for what it is. I can pretty much guarantee it would fetch a good price done up nice.

    I have several friends who would buy mine tomorrow for a grand, if I chose to unload it. But that ain't gonna happen. Its a great stove... regardless of the fact it isn't of the new EPA variety.
  13. greythorn3

    greythorn3 Minister of Fire

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    I love the blaze king and the room is pleanty big for it, it burned for over 16 hours outside in my yard at 50 degrees outside.. in the rain and i threw some logs in it and it fired back up and keept going, had it going for almost a week, on not much wood.. mostly fallen tree branches around 3 " in diameter biggest was 6" log of cotton wood.....

    The space is a living room / kitchen, 50' x 30' or so.. the glass fireplace panels in now is 3' x 2' so the stove i have would actually fit width wise, but like i said i would make the hole go to the floor and widen it a foot or so also.. like a cave.. i do all the work myself except the chimeny because i never have done that but with the proper advice would attempt it..

    I do not want an insert, i want to be able to use the wood stove without a blower. its gonna be supplamentary heat to my boiler.. i would love to buy that glass door off you, if you want to sell it! :) my wife likes to look at the fire! hehehe liek he said the blaze king is the king in alaska! my house is a little drafty so if it got to hot i dont mind opening windows in winter.. in fact i would enjoy the fresh air.


    Good advice keep it comming..

    Ray


    stove dimensions are 30h x 31d x 33h of my blazeking
  14. Gooserider

    Gooserider Mod Emeritus

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    Something to be VERY cautious about is modifying your fireplace... If it is a masonry construction, you have to be careful not to do anything that would hurt the structural integrity (especially the ability to support the very heavy chimney...) or that would reduce the thickness of the masonry below what is needed to have safe clearance to combustibles.

    If it's a prefab "Zero Clearance" metal fireplace, the same considerations apply only more so, to the point where nearly any modification is going to void your combustible clearance rating, on both the firebox AND the chimney, though there will be slightly less risk of the chimney collapsing...

    Lowering the hearth on a masonry fireplace is probably not going to be a huge problem as long as you keep the clearances required, and build out the proper distance in front of the fireplace for the hearth width. However I think that if you try that on a pre-fab, or if you also try to widen a masonry unit, it will be easier to tear the entire thing out, chimney and all, and rebuild from the bottom... (Possibly requiring a new / additional footer on top of everything else...)

    Definitely something you would want to talk to a professional about, and probably your local code enforcement person, even if you plan on doing the work yourself.

    This is basically why we are trying to steer you away from doing this - it is going to be a massively difficult and expensive project, even on a DIY basis, and it doesn't seem to make sense to us to go through all that to accomodate a $50 stove, when you could probably put in something brand new that will perform better on less wood for a lot less on the bottom line...

    Gooserider
  15. greythorn3

    greythorn3 Minister of Fire

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    Blazekings are great stoves.. i went to a few store locally today, most new stoves dont even have 8" pipes! and they said cat stoves are NOT the way to go in alaska.. but they did say that i should be able to find a godo deal on some used 8" pipe for my blazeking since people are retrofitting with the new stoves that mostly only use 6" pipe! so thats some good news there!

    I really dont think its going to cost much more then the chimeny.. i play to spend less then 1000$ to get this installed and working great.. and safe also! the fireplace i have no is NOT masonery. most of it is inside a chase on the exterior of the house.. my dimensions of my area were off also its 20 x 40 for the living room / kitchen area.. this baze king is over kill for sure in this area.. but it will get put in the basement later and i will have a new blazeking takes it place.. thats the plan anyhow.

    I did learn somthing new, that putting a free stading wood stove in a alcove it needs a certain ammount of upper clearance also.. some stoves they had needed as much as 84" wow! thats allot, but there were on kinda tall legs.. mine has a short built in stand..

    heres a picture also from where i started painting it, i painted around the rusty areas tell i hit them with a wirebrush. i still need to pick up a door gasket and some new firebricks.

    Ray

    [​IMG]
  16. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    From the looks of your last picture there is a lot of white metal on the side of that stove which is a sure sign of overfiring. Make sure you check all the welds. What size and type of chimney do you have? It's probably not rated for a wood stove so it will need to be replaced, or relined and wrapped with insulation if you can fit it down.

    Instead of wirebrushing or sanding maybe look into sandblasting the whole thing then spray with high temp stove paint.
  17. Gooserider

    Gooserider Mod Emeritus

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    OK, sounds like you are trying to go into an external alcove setup. The good side is that this is probably the most flexible in terms of rebuilding, since you can, at worst simply rip it off and replace it... Downside is that unless carefully designed, you will spend most of your energy heating the great outdoors, and have a relatively hard time getting the heat into the house... (Optimal design is to stick the stove in the middle of the ceiling and go straight up to the roof peak with the stack)

    1. Does the stove have a label on the back with clearances, or does it have clearances listed in the manual for an ALCOVE INSTALL? (Note, not all stoves are legal for alcove installation!) If so, then you are going to need to make your alcove to at least those dimensions, unless making it 100% out of non-combustible materials. If it doesn't have this information, then you will have to use the NFPA "generic" clearances, which are usually MUCH greater (and which not all code enforcement people will accept - I repeat earlier caution about checking with your code officials)

    Note that you will have to have clearances at the front, back, both sides, above, and probably some sort of non-combustible construction of a specified minimum R-value and size underneath. You MAY be able to reduce these clearances slightly by the use of proper NFPA clearance reduction techniques, but those get tricky in alcoves.

    2. There are very specific requirements on how the alcoves must be built - make sure you follow them - this includes what materials you use for framing, insulating, and sheathing, etc.

    3. Insulate the heck out of the exposed sides of the alcove, and make it as air-tight as possible, ditto for your stack enclosure. If not, you will be doing a great job of keeping all the wildlife warm, as your alcove radiates to the outdoors on three sides, and to your house on one.... Be sure to use non-combustible insulation, i.e. rockwool, NOT combustible foams or regular fiberglass. You should also enclose and insulate your stack, which will improve your draft, and thus stove performance, while somewhat reducing the high rate at which this stove will build creosote... It may also help to line the inside walls of the alcove with thermal mass such as stone or brick.

    4. You may need to have a fan or other forced ventilation setup to help get the heat out of the alcove and into the house... It may help if you slope the roof of the alcove and avoid having any sills, etc. sticking down across the front, so as to encourage natural convection airflow. That stove is mostly a radiant heater from its looks, but you are using it in a setup that is more suited to convection heating than radiant.

    Gooserider
  18. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Seems someone is blowing a bit of smoke at this. Have you been to a BlazeKing dealer? Although 6" is definitely more common pipe, the current BlazeKing King still uses 8" pipe. It's not hard to get 8" pipe and if necessary it can be shipped up from one of the standard companies like www.ventingpipe.com or www.dynamitebuys.com . But don't start with used pipe, this is permanent infrastructure. Go with new pipe and stay safe.

    FWIW, there seems to be some pretty loyal following here for the current generation of BlazeKings installed in the far north. Long fires with steady heat seems like a good proposition for cold country.
  19. Frostbit

    Frostbit Feeling the Heat

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    Sorry, Ray, the doors on the King and Princess models are not the same size.
  20. greythorn3

    greythorn3 Minister of Fire

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    ive been pawing this over all weekend, and i think im just going to put it on a interior wall oppisite of the fireplace, then i can run the chimeny straight up to almost teh peak of the ceiling center as suggested.. . and leave the fireplace alone this year, and replace it with a insert in a year or 2.. seems to make more sense right now and will prodive for a quicker installation.. then later in the years i could go thru the floor beneth and put it in the basement with additional double wall pipe.. and chase it in indoors on the wall.. what do you guys think of this crazy new idea? i believe all the seams of the stove are pleanty safe.. i will check them over better once i do a better painting and reline the firebricks..

    Also im not going to have any code people look at nothing...


    Ray
  21. Wet1

    Wet1 Minister of Fire

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    I think your new idea makes a lot more sense.

    Your dealer is an idiot. A new BK King (similar to your stove, but with a cat) still uses 8" pipe, and it's available pretty much anywhere pipe is sold. Also, the newer BK models are the standard for burning up there in cold country... a BK King will easily heat your place with much more consistent temps, burn far less wood, and burn longer on each load.
  22. wendell

    wendell Minister of Fire

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    There's that Alaska spirit! ;-)
  23. Gooserider

    Gooserider Mod Emeritus

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    That makes more sense to me (hardly surprising since I suggested it...) as an inside stove / fireplace is automatically going to be a better performer just because all the heat it puts out goes into the living space instead of outdoors.

    Putting it in the basement is also not a bad idea, IF you have the basement well insulated and are using it as living space that you want to heat anyway... It generally does not work real well when people try to put stoves in the basement with hopes of heating the house by pushing the heat around.

    To check out the stove seams, see some of the earlier threads and wiki articles on checking out used stoves - one of the best ways is to clean out the inside, and put a trouble light in the stove, and look for light leaks...

    Another option is to try using an air compressor or shop vac to LIGHTLY pressurize the stove (i.e. 1-2 psi max) and make sure air only comes out where it is supposed to...

    Lastly, while I tend to share your distaste for code people and mandatory inspections etc., I don't have the same objections to the Code itself... I had a friend that used to describe the Code as "The Book of the Dead" as it was written in memory of all the people that died because they didn't do it like the code said... I would STRONGLY urge you to make all your setup details code compliant whether you get inspections or not, just because I figure it's worth keeping you and your family around... The other reality (which is why I keep telling people to consult with code people) is that in most locations, whether we like it or not, the law requires you to get inspected and blessed by the code guys, who can make you tear everything out if you don't, and also most insurance companies, mortgage holding banks, etc. will also insist on some sort of inspection, and get nasty if it isn't done... If you are going to be forced to get inspected, IMHO it's better to consult with the inspectors ahead of time, before putting out a lot of time and money into something they won't sign off on...

    Gooserider
  24. d.n.f.

    d.n.f. New Member

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    Cat stoves are no good in Alaska? Talk to North of 60 (Yukon). He loves his BK. Maybe things are different in Alaska.
  25. Wet1

    Wet1 Minister of Fire

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    Might want to ask "Wolfkiller" about his BK King (cat model) as well, I believe he's in North Pole.
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