can anyone tell me if they also use a laddomat in their system? I seem to be having some issues getting enough of the cold water into my eko, my boiler wan't to go idle before the tanks are fully charged.
laddomat operation
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To me that sounds proper. All available heat is making it out of the boiler till the temps equalize.
I think I misspelled a word before. My boiler likes to idle before the tanks are charged.
Today it seems to be cruising along, just a degree or two under shut down of the fans. I may need to tease the Eko's controller's temp probe with a bit more insulation to keep it running...
Today it seems to be cruising along, just a degree or two under shut down of the fans. I may need to tease the Eko's controller's temp probe with a bit more insulation to keep it running...
That is a a bit different but might not be wrong. I am guessing you have the Laddomat 21? What temp element in it?
Yes, it is the 21, but i'm not sure whitch element is in there, and I can't find the other one that comes with it. I'm looking desperately so I will know...
If it is running that hot it sounds like a high temp stat is in it, might be better with a 63° stat.
BrownianHeatingTech
Minister of Fire
You may not be getting enough flow with that.
I know Tarm won't sell them on boilers over 40kW, because they are only available with one pump size, and it really doesn't make the GPM for larger boilers.
The Laddomat manual claims it can handle 80kW, but if you do the math based upon the pump curves, that's probably only possible if you have the Laddomat wedged directly between the tank and the boiler, with essentially no piping between them - any appreciable amount of head loss in the connecting pipes quickly puts the flow rate too low.
Joe
I know Tarm won't sell them on boilers over 40kW, because they are only available with one pump size, and it really doesn't make the GPM for larger boilers.
The Laddomat manual claims it can handle 80kW, but if you do the math based upon the pump curves, that's probably only possible if you have the Laddomat wedged directly between the tank and the boiler, with essentially no piping between them - any appreciable amount of head loss in the connecting pipes quickly puts the flow rate too low.
Joe
I am wondering the same thing. Even though my boiler sets about 1foot from my tanks, I have several elbos on the run. I am watching heat just sort of sit at the boiler. Now, I did upgrade this year from 1" pipe to 1 1/4, this goes around my Eko, then feeds 1" headers for the dual 500 gal tanks. Also it should self circulate upon power outage. However, I unplugged the laddomat from power to see if it would, but the temp got up to 205, so I plugged it back in. It was still only my 3rd fire at the time, maybe I still had some air lock. I'd like to try that again soon.
Im still looking for the other valve piece....
Im still looking for the other valve piece....
BrownianHeatingTech
Minister of Fire
barnartist said:
You can check the temperature on the supply and return pipes, and measure the temperature change in the tank for an hour. Temperature change in the tank gives you btus, and the temperature difference between the supply and the return, coupled with the known btu load, will give you the flow rate.
Even without measuring the tank, knowing the temperature drop would help. If it's less than 30 degrees, you're "probably" okay, but 20 would be best.
barnartist said:
Do you know the actual model number? Because the models that end in S don't self-circulate...
Joe
I'm not sure I can get the known BTU load, But I will try and record the other measurements soon. The laddomat's gauges are in C.
All I could get from looking at the devise is laddomat 21, but it does say speed 3 runs at 93 watts, and it says min. 2200, but it does not say what that means.
BrownianHeatingTech
Minister of Fire
barnartist said:
The temperature rise in the system over a given period (eg, one hour), with an approximately-known mass of water will tell us the btus, as long as you are only heating the tank, not any zones.
barnartist said:
Take a look at the documentation here:
http://www.acaso.se/english/termovar.htm
Does it have the access cover in the side, between the two lower thermometers? That would exist if it's a model that can self-circulate.
Joe
My model is different. Green in color, did not come with that nice insulation either. I did though find the maunual for it though, and it is suppose to self cirulate. I tried it again today- cut the power with a nice coal bed in the chamber. after an hour, I plugged it back in when I went from 175 to 200.
I will try to figure my output soon. If it looks like the laddomat is restricting the boiler, what would be the next step?
I will try to figure my output soon. If it looks like the laddomat is restricting the boiler, what would be the next step?
I think the link to the termovar is not for the laddomat. Here is a link to the laddomat 21 owners manual.
http://www.newhorizoncorp.com/PDF/Laddomat 21 Manual.pdf
http://www.newhorizoncorp.com/PDF/Laddomat 21 Manual.pdf
This would be the link http://www.newhorizoncorp.com/PDF/Laddomat 21 Manual.pdf
This is what I have exactly.
While things seem to be operating smoothly, I wonder if this little guy is doing it's job entirely.
Thank you all for looking into this...
This is what I have exactly.
While things seem to be operating smoothly, I wonder if this little guy is doing it's job entirely.
Thank you all for looking into this...
that is weird it will not let you post the entire link, so you will have to manually go to the New Horizon site.
I am Mr. mom today, and it is 55 degrees here, so I have yet to build a fire since last night at 10:30. I was going to wait and let my tank temp drop down to 150 (in the middle) and see what it takes to recharge it. Letting it only drop to 165, I only need 3 hours to get it back to 180 (again in the middle, because this is the only spot I put a gauge).
I can hear the water circulating clearly when the boiler is shut down, and the laddomat is running. Unplugged though I hear nothing and the gauges on the laddomat all get to a very similar temp-the gauge that is at the point where the cold tank bottom comes in does stay similar to the tank temp, but I think this is because the water is just touching the gauge, and not circulating. After a while with the laddomat off, and then fire it up, all of the gauges immidiatley change readings...
I am Mr. mom today, and it is 55 degrees here, so I have yet to build a fire since last night at 10:30. I was going to wait and let my tank temp drop down to 150 (in the middle) and see what it takes to recharge it. Letting it only drop to 165, I only need 3 hours to get it back to 180 (again in the middle, because this is the only spot I put a gauge).
I can hear the water circulating clearly when the boiler is shut down, and the laddomat is running. Unplugged though I hear nothing and the gauges on the laddomat all get to a very similar temp-the gauge that is at the point where the cold tank bottom comes in does stay similar to the tank temp, but I think this is because the water is just touching the gauge, and not circulating. After a while with the laddomat off, and then fire it up, all of the gauges immidiatley change readings...
Joe, I had about one degree temp rise for one hour this morning. I have 1 1/4 pipe that feeds 1" headers that feed dual 500 gallon tanks. So the Eko has about 47 gal of water. None of my zones called for heat.
Now, does it matter that I am reading my tank measurement from the middle- it seems like I have good stratification going, because it seems like all at once I will see a major spike up in the temp, so I am guessing the magic hot water line gets to the gauge, but this is just my own theory.
Now, does it matter that I am reading my tank measurement from the middle- it seems like I have good stratification going, because it seems like all at once I will see a major spike up in the temp, so I am guessing the magic hot water line gets to the gauge, but this is just my own theory.
Hansson
Feeling the Heat
That is not builder of the LaddomatBrownianHeatingTech said:
Check out this
http://www.termoventiler.se/default.asp?webb_ID=110&webbsida_ID=4
BrownianHeatingTech
Minister of Fire
barnartist said:
Well, that's a bit over 4500 pounds of water. So, your tank absorbed 4500 btu/hr (1 btu will heat one pound of water one degree F). What was the difference between the supply and return temps on the system while that was happening?
Hansson said:
Sorry 'bout that. Always get those two mixed up.
Looks similar, in any case. Wilo instead of Grundfos, but similar pump curve for the two pumps, and neither really has the flow capabilities for US-designed heating systems. Larger delta-T on the boiler would allow for lower flow rates, but the rest of the system would have to be designed around that, as well.
Joe
The tank temp is now 175, so two hours got me 11.5 degrees. Pretty sure this is the result of the stratification line.
Do you think I need to add another pump (I have a 011 taco) in the loop between the laddomat and the Eko? Once again the boiler shuts down before even the middle of the tank is at 180.
Right now, the laddomat's gauges read 78c in, 78c mix, and 80c out. This would mean a complete charge looking at these numbers, yet im only at 175 at the tanks.
I say only-this is not bad, but again I should try and find a temp for you at the tank bottom.
Maybe I need to let the tanks get even cooler before a restart, or tease the Eko's CPU probe a bit more to get a higher output. Maybe 200f.
Maybe I am crazy too.
Do you think I need to add another pump (I have a 011 taco) in the loop between the laddomat and the Eko? Once again the boiler shuts down before even the middle of the tank is at 180.
Right now, the laddomat's gauges read 78c in, 78c mix, and 80c out. This would mean a complete charge looking at these numbers, yet im only at 175 at the tanks.
I say only-this is not bad, but again I should try and find a temp for you at the tank bottom.
Maybe I need to let the tanks get even cooler before a restart, or tease the Eko's CPU probe a bit more to get a higher output. Maybe 200f.
Maybe I am crazy too.
I hate to ask such a basic question because you have probably already looked at this but what speed are you running the circulator on? It has three speeds and the only reccomended speed is #3 or high for your size boiler. Also did you install the Laddomat as described? Manual says it should be at the same level as the boilers bottom connection and/or within 20cm of the floor. Also no more than 3 meters from the storage tank. I am sure much of this is to ensure self circulation but any deviation from reccomended install can cause loss of flow rate.
Yup. its installed immiediatly at the boiler inlet. Set at speed three-at least from what I can tell. Gives me a 95 watt setting, a 73 watt setting, and 61 or something like that.
I finally found the other valve adjuster thingy that goes in the laddomat. Before I ask which one I am holding, I will try and figure it out from the PDF file.
Meanwhile, which one will let me mix more cold into the boiler?
Meanwhile, which one will let me mix more cold into the boiler?
Ok, the valve that I hold in my hand does its magic @72c. So, how do I figure which one is installed currently-and should I try this one? I just checked operation, and it is running at 75C into the boiler, and 86c out-this is what the laddomats gauges read.
I would bet you have a 78 in your laddomat now. Mine came with a 78 installed but I bought my boiler in Poland so it may be different than what you are buying in the states. I have a grunfoss pump on mine, I think the one you have has a different pump.
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