Lambda controlled boilers

[huffdawg]

if lambda technology is not a "must", then neither is gasification,

Now there's a whopper. Normally invalid straw man arguments are a whole lot more subtle than this.

Ya its kind of like saying i'd rather toast my bread over an open flame than in a toaster.

 

[rpmm70]

So let me ask you why you purchased a gassifier vs. An OWB?

 

[nrford]

#1 I haven't got time to C/S/S that much wood.
#2 I can't stand all the nasty smoke the OWB put out!

 

[martyinmi]

Brian,
How pricey is the Lambda controller and would it be possible to install on a gasifying OWB? I've probably already voided my warranty with the holes I've drilled for thermocouples and probes. Are we talking hundreds or thousands of$$?

Marty

 

[TCaldwell]

Eliot, c'mon, I bet you could hack-up some o2 controlls for your boiler and still have the new splitter, plasma cutter and super c! I well get your point however I was not smart enough to stay away from the controlls. lets watch what happens to the wood boiler industry when the next " energy crisis " comes and the epa looks for examples.

 

[maple1]

Brian I will loudly second your comments regarding the backwardness of the USA in terms of energy efficiency and conservation. Dealing with builders who look at nothing but first cost, and trying to design systems that offer maximum performance are two things that are not yet on the same page here in the good 'ol USofA. Just look at the hesitation to adopt variable speed pumps and the systems that work well with them for example. In many cases a system that is designed to work with variable flow rates such as a panel rad system can reduce electrical costs by 80%. Payback is one side of that equation but we here in the US must also learn to consider the environmental and energy footprints we leave for our kids and grandkids.
It frustrates me to no end when I constantly hear things from the OWB gasser salesmen like "our unit tested at 85%" or, "My boiler was tested by the EPA and they rated it at 94%", when I know that without a doubt those statements are false. Customers believe it though and they keep selling the bloody things.

Feeling another rant coming on so I better just quit here. It is the weekend you know............

Well, if it makes you feel any better, we're even more backwards up here than you guys down there. At least you have a few dealers selling/servicing/installing gassifying wood boilers - and even a couple of manufacturers. If I want to buy a gassifying boiler, I have to buy out of New England, which ain't easy - although I think I have seen the very odd Kijiji add for one guy selling Econoburns. Very frustrating considering all the wood burning going on around here. And furnace making (Kerr/Granby, Newmac & Benjamin all within an hour drive and all still using old tech).

 

[ewdudley]

bet you could hack-up some o2 controlls for your boiler and still have [your toys]

You'd think so, I've got the steppers, H-bridges, controller, sensors, and whatnot, but it's becoming more and more true that 'the older I get the faster I was'.

I well get your point however I was not smart enough to stay away from the controls.

And hats are off to you, it must be a big kick to hang out for a while after loading to watch your servos tweaking while your plant tracks to setpoint.

lets watch what happens to the wood boiler industry when the next " energy crisis " comes and the epa looks for examples.

I sure hope it plays out for the better. I must say it's nicer now in New York to be able to drop a dime on some nimrod burning used diapers and tyvex scraps in his OWB, but when you consider the perversions resulting from asbestos abatement regulation, for instance, it's hard to remain optimistic.

 

[hobbyheater]

Well, if it makes you feel any better, we're even more backwards up here than you guys down there. At least you have a few dealers selling/servicing/installing gassifying wood boilers - and even a couple of manufacturers. If I want to buy a gassifying boiler, I have to buy out of New England, which ain't easy - although I think I have seen the very odd Kijiji add for one guy selling Econoburns. Very frustrating considering all the wood burning going on around here. And furnace making (Kerr/Granby, Newmac & Benjamin all within an hour drive and all still using old tech).

Kerr used to make the Jetstream.
It needed no Lambda controls, just primary preheated combustion air and draft inducer from one blower.
Wish I had enough know how to measure what is going up the stack. After hour two of a burn, there is no odor. The boiler has a large refractory component. Once it gets to operating temperature, not much will leave the base unburnt.
Pictures are: diagram of the boiler, standing by the chimney mid way through a burn, two pictures of the refractory liner: one - the round section of the burn chamber, two - the rectangular section is the ash trap that would be under the flame tubes and a complete refractory base.

I am finding this boiler to be very repairable.

 

[EffectaBoilerUser (USA)]

Its amazing how 2 different designs are used to get the same results. The prior posting showing photos of an extremely thick ceramic mass and this posting showing photos of a thin, stainless steel afterburner.

Take a look at the stainless steel after burner used on the effecta lambda boilers. The benefit of this type of afterburner is that it gets very hot very quick upon starting a fire. In addition, it does not crack due to the hot/cold/hot/cold cycling. Even after 2,000 hours of operation the SS afterburner in my lambda boiler is in good shape. The final benefit is that the afterburner can me removed (slid out) from the secondary chamber very quickly, thus allowing for easy cleaning of the fully water jacketed secondary chamber.

Ive also attached a diagram which illustrates the stainless steel afterburner (with 70 ports in it) that is encased within the 4 piece ceramic.

I hope this helps others to understand the effecta lambda boilers better and clarifies any misinformation relating to its construction.

Brian

 

[goosegunner]

Its amazing how 2 different designs are used to get the same results. The prior posting showing photos of an extremely thick ceramic mass and this posting showing photos of a thin, stainless steel afterburner.

Take a look at the stainless steel after burner used on the effecta lambda boilers. The benefit of this type of afterburner is that it gets very hot very quick upon starting a fire. In addition, it does not crack due to the hot/cold/hot/cold cycling. Even after 2,000 hours of operation the SS afterburner in my lambda boiler is in good shape. The final benefit is that the afterburner can me removed (slid out) from the secondary chamber very quickly, thus allowing for easy cleaning of the fully water jacketed secondary chamber.

Ive also attached a diagram which illustrates the stainless steel afterburner (with 70 ports in it) that is encased within the 4 piece ceramic.

I hope this helps others to understand the effecta lambda boilers better and clarifies any misinformation relating to its construction.

Brian

From what I remember about speaking with you about the Effecta boiler when you first started selling them was that the factory recommend not burning very much oak and that the burner was a fairly costly consumable part that would last about 3 years. The ceramics were also to be replaced with the burner.

Has that changed at all?

Gg

 

[EffectaBoilerUser (USA)]

In response to goo question regarding the ceramics life on the effecta lambda boilers I have presented this question to effecta engineering and am pleased to provide the following response:

1.) What is the longest life of a ceramic in an effecta boiler that you know of?

About 13-15 years.

2.) What do most customers experience for the life of the ceramics?

About 7-10 years

3.) What is the shortest life you have seen/experienced with an effecta lambda ceramic?

We have had some customers using fuel with lots of sulfur, e.g. packages for fluids, milk etc., or plastics. The life span can be less than 2 years. Sulfur makes the heat resistance in the ceramics to go down. This will of course not fall under any warranty.

4.) When ordering the ceramics, I believe it also comes with the SS burner tube and high temp. sealer/caulk material – is this true?

Yes

5.) Any other info I need/should know about the replacement of the ceramics?

The wearing of the ceramics starts day one. It is a long ongoing process. The hole for the gases in the middle will start to increase in size after a couple of years. Some small bits might fall out. This will not affect the combustion. So it is a big different between wear and warranty.

Regarding the replacement itself, it is a quite easy job to put the new one in place, just follow instruction. The hard part can be to get the old one out, but if used long enough, the old ceramics should be quite easy to remove.


This information was provided directly by Effecta AB in Kungsbacka Sweden and is NOT my opinion/statement.

Stefan is the Engineering Manager at Effecta AB [[email protected]] and thus if anyone has a specific effecta lambda boiler related question I encourage you to contact him directly.

We email daily to all effecta departments and thus plesase don't feel shy about asking Stefan technical, boiler related questions. I'm sure he would welcome any questions you may have.

One final note, unlike other boilers I've seen, the effecta lambda boilers use a 4 piece ceramic with a stainless steel burner tube incased in this ceramic. This burner tube has 35 ports, equally spaced along the length of the tube/opening in the ceramics on each side (for a total of 70 ports). It looks much like a burner that is found in the typical gas fired boiler or forced air furnace and thus does a very nice job of ensuring complete mixing of wood gas and incoming air to ensure complete combustion takes place in the secondary chamber.

Even though the ceramics will wear over time, the stainless steel burner will ensure that complete mixing and most efficient combustion is occurring over this same period of time.

Please refer to my previous post for images of this type of boiler design.

Hope this helps to clarify any questions related to the ceramics in an effecta lambda wood gasification boiler.

Brian

 

[Singed Eyebrows]

In response to goo question regarding the ceramics life on the effecta lambda boilers I have presented this question to effecta engineering and am pleased to provide the following response:

1.) What is the longest life of a ceramic in an effecta boiler that you know of?

About 13-15 years.

2.) What do most customers experience for the life of the ceramics?

About 7-10 years

3.) What is the shortest life you have seen/experienced with an effecta lambda ceramic?

We have had some customers using fuel with lots of sulfur, e.g. packages for fluids, milk etc., or plastics. The life span can be less than 2 years. Sulfur makes the heat resistance in the ceramics to go down. This will of course not fall under any warranty.

4.) When ordering the ceramics, I believe it also comes with the SS burner tube and high temp. sealer/caulk material – is this true?

Yes

5.) Any other info I need/should know about the replacement of the ceramics?

The wearing of the ceramics starts day one. It is a long ongoing process. The hole for the gases in the middle will start to increase in size after a couple of years. Some small bits might fall out. This will not affect the combustion. So it is a big different between wear and warranty.

Regarding the replacement itself, it is a quite easy job to put the new one in place, just follow instruction. The hard part can be to get the old one out, but if used long enough, the old ceramics should be quite easy to remove.


This information was provided directly by Effecta AB in Kungsbacka Sweden and is NOT my opinion/statement.

Stefan is the Engineering Manager at Effecta AB [[email protected]] and thus if anyone has a specific effecta lambda boiler related question I encourage you to contact him directly.

We email daily to all effecta departments and thus plesase don't feel shy about asking Stefan technical, boiler related questions. I'm sure he would welcome any questions you may have.

One final note, unlike other boilers I've seen, the effecta lambda boilers use a 4 piece ceramic with a stainless steel burner tube incased in this ceramic. This burner tube has 35 ports, equally spaced along the length of the tube/opening in the ceramics on each side (for a total of 70 ports). It looks much like a burner that is found in the typical gas fired boiler or forced air furnace and thus does a very nice job of ensuring complete mixing of wood gas and incoming air to ensure complete combustion takes place in the secondary chamber.

Even though the ceramics will wear over time, the stainless steel burner will ensure that complete mixing and most efficient combustion is occurring over this same period of time.

Please refer to my previous post for images of this type of boiler design.

Hope this helps to clarify any questions related to the ceramics in an effecta lambda wood gasification boiler.

Brian

That was one of the things I liked about the burner from day one. All other nozzles that I know of just have a series of holes with large gaps(Froling excluded, don't know whats in there), some with just 2 on each side. I like the idea of what amounts to a near solid "sheet" of air being fed into the hot gas, Randy

 

[Treefarmer]

Its amazing how 2 different designs are used to get the same results. The prior posting showing photos of an extremely thick ceramic mass and this posting showing photos of a thin, stainless steel afterburner.

Take a look at the stainless steel after burner used on the effecta lambda boilers. The benefit of this type of afterburner is that it gets very hot very quick upon starting a fire. In addition, it does not crack due to the hot/cold/hot/cold cycling. Even after 2,000 hours of operation the SS afterburner in my lambda boiler is in good shape. The final benefit is that the afterburner can me removed (slid out) from the secondary chamber very quickly, thus allowing for easy cleaning of the fully water jacketed secondary chamber.

Ive also attached a diagram which illustrates the stainless steel afterburner (with 70 ports in it) that is encased within the 4 piece ceramic.

I hope this helps others to understand the effecta lambda boilers better and clarifies any misinformation relating to its construction.

Brian

Thanks everyone for all the great responses.

Brian, When speaking of longevity of various components, years in service can be pretty variable. How many hours per heating season/year is your unit burning? How are you logging this time?

I would guess that the swedish users might log considerably more hours per season than us. Does Effecta have data suggesting how many hours per season a unit is firing?

I am trying to establish a rough idea of payback time frame and annual or expected maintenance costs

Thanks again

 

[Treefarmer]

Hey Brian, did you see my previous post?

The information you have provided is excellent and encouraging.

If I buy a wood boiler the ease of operation of an Effecta boiler is a deal maker for me. I have too many other things to do than babysit or fine tune it.

Thanks

 

[bigburner]

Hobbyheater - please post some pics of the "jetstream housing for combustion air and exhaust draft" and an explication of how well it works. This is the part of my build that got tabled so we could just use it. Just using boiler room air and a adjustable fan, works pretty but I know there is a stage or two left in the afterburner.

 

[hobbyheater]

Hobbyheater - please post some pics of the "jetstream housing for combustion air and exhaust draft" and an explication of how well it works. This is the part of my build that got tabled so we could just use it. Just using boiler room air and a adjustable fan, works pretty but I know there is a stage or two left in the afterburner.

Pictured is the belt driven blower. It supplies both combustion and draft inducer air. Things do not line up in this picture. There is another housing that belongs to this installation but this picture gives a good view on how the air is divided.
The section of flue pipe shows the draft inducer port inside the pipe.
The side profile picture of the boiler should help to see how the draft inducer port fits in.

The draft inducer is simple but works very well. If I'm careful not to block the refractory tunnel (nozzle) with a block of wood when loading the burn chamber, I get no smoke into the room. The forced combustion air is cut off when the loading door is opened.

 

[goosegunner]

Hobbyheater - please post some pics of the "jetstream housing for combustion air and exhaust draft" and an explication of how well it works. This is the part of my build that got tabled so we could just use it. Just using boiler room air and a adjustable fan, works pretty but I know there is a stage or two left in the afterburner.

Pictured is the belt driven blower. It supplies both combustion and draft inducer air. Things do not line up in this picture. There is another housing that belongs to this installation but this picture gives a good view on how the air is divided.
The section of flue pipe shows the draft inducer port inside the pipe.
The side profile picture of the boiler should help to see how the draft inducer port fits in.

The draft inducer is simple but works very well. If I'm careful not to block the refractory tunnel (nozzle) with a block of wood when loading the burn chamber, I get no smoke into the room. The forced combustion air is cut off when the loading door is opened.

I have seen your draft inducer picture on another thread and thought that might be a solution for smoke when loading.

Do you think it would work to put a similar pipe in the flue to help smoke when loading?

gg

 

[bigburner]

Hobbyheater You have years of experience with this boiler, so I am going to keep picking your brain as long as you let me. Please comment on my observations, It appears that it is using a high pressure centrifugal blower and that a portion of the air is being piped in to the vent connector threw a venturi that should create a negative pressure to induce draft. Where does it pull the inlet air from? Does it dump any air into the secondary burn chamber? Could you better explain why there is little smoke when door is open

 

[hobbyheater]

Hobbyheater You have years of experience with this boiler, so I am going to keep picking your brain as long as you let me. Please comment on my observations, It appears that it is using a high pressure centrifugal blower and that a portion of the air is being piped in to the vent connector threw a venturi that should create a negative pressure to induce draft. Where does it pull the inlet air from? Does it dump any air into the secondary burn chamber? Could you better explain why there is little smoke when door is open

I'm going to move your answers over to "Giving a Jetstream base new life. https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewreply/1107028/

 

[hobbyheater]

I have seen your draft inducer picture on another thread and thought that might be a solution for smoke when loading.

Do you think it would work to put a similar pipe in the flue to help smoke when loading?gg[/quote]


I once tried running the boiler with a forge blower rated at 140 watts, 112 C.F.M and 36 OZ static pressure. It could not do the job. The vacuum motor is a lot more powerful - 99.2 C.F.M, 900 watts, at 84" H2O (not exactly sure what the 84" H2O means). I do not know if the placement of the draft inducer port in a venturi adds to its success. We have some engineers :zip: out there please jump in :exclaim:
When the loading door on the Jetstream is open, the blower's full capacity goes to the draft inducer, drawing air through the open door into the combustion chamber. While the loading door is open, I have seen a spike in flue gas temperatures of 200 F .
I am remembering posting the picture on that thread but I am now thinking that I got in over my head.

 

[goosegunner]

Seems like if I cut a hole in my flue pipe and sealed a pipe in the hole that pointed up it would work to just flip the switch for the fan when loading.

gg

 

[hobbyheater]

Seems like if I cut a hole in my flue pipe and sealed a pipe in the hole that pointed up it would work to just flip the switch for the fan when loading.

gg

Nothing ventured nothing gained , let us know how it works out . :exclaim:

 

[TCaldwell]

Alan, with the inducer on and the loading door closed, the inducer only pulls air through the dedicated combustion port to a site specific location with a certain ammt of static resistance. These conditions or parameters are designed to quasi control the burn. When you open the loading door, this designed airflow becomes unbalanced allowing a percentage of the airflow to be redirected to a path of least resistance, the loading chamber adding more primary air that increases the overall burn rate thus higher flue temps. this is common with the garn also. When you open the loading door you are not increasing cfm, only redirecting airflow.

 

[Patti]

rppm70- May I ask how many cords of wood you burn a year? You said that no one wants to be cutting 15-20 cords....and you are absolutely right! That's what I burned last year and I'm NOT doing that again! I have been looking at the Effecta for awhile now, but I just read above that another guy burns about 20 cords a year. I think my situation might be more similar to yours though- 2500 sq ft log cabin (1857), close the loft off in the winter so heat about 1900 sq feet total. Good insulation but needs new windows badly. Boiler is in my shop, 110ft from the house with pex buried 5 ft down. I have a 600 gal insulated stainless steel storage tank but it's not pressurized. I have infloor heating in a stone floor. Will be hooked up to hot tub, pool, and dhw tank, but use very little hot water. I live in the snowbelt in Ontario, so lots of -15 C days and nights. You didn't mention a storage tank. Do you have one? Is it pressurized or not? I see your post is from a few years ago, so are you still heating with a gasifier and still like it? Thanks for your input! Patti

 

[maple1]

rppm70- May I ask how many cords of wood you burn a year? You said that no one wants to be cutting 15-20 cords....and you are absolutely right! That's what I burned last year and I'm NOT doing that again! I have been looking at the Effecta for awhile now, but I just read above that another guy burns about 20 cords a year. I think my situation might be more similar to yours though- 2500 sq ft log cabin (1857), close the loft off in the winter so heat about 1900 sq feet total. Good insulation but needs new windows badly. Boiler is in my shop, 110ft from the house with pex buried 5 ft down. I have a 600 gal insulated stainless steel storage tank but it's not pressurized. I have infloor heating in a stone floor. Will be hooked up to hot tub, pool, and dhw tank, but use very little hot water. I live in the snowbelt in Ontario, so lots of -15 C days and nights. You didn't mention a storage tank. Do you have one? Is it pressurized or not? I see your post is from a few years ago, so are you still heating with a gasifier and still like it? Thanks for your input! Patti

Pex buried? Can you elaborate? What kind exactly?