Last winter it was a LP shortage, now it's a fire wood shortage

[WiscWoody]

I suppose they'll take there turns in this shortage thing since it's great for the suppliers profits! Lol

http://www.twincities.com/localnews...ewood-shortage-unprecedented-timber-exec-says

 

[Applesister]

Maybe its true but so many people cut their own or scrounge from homeowners and landscapers. Scrounging seems industrious and positive with sources like Craigslist. Word of mouth with coworkers and family and neighbors.
And burning wood helps clean up woodlots of weakened trees and deadfall, etc...one person at a time.
It seems somewhat removed from the commercial industry of timber harvesting. To me...it just reads as a price gouging propaganda.

 

[Charles1981]

The farm near me processes about 81 cords a year and sells it by the facecord starting in september.

Last year they were selling it through October and took about 8 weeks to sell it all.

They went from 81 cords to zero in about 2 weeks this year. They be sold out faster than ever.

 

[area_man]

The growth of wood as fuel to heat homes is skyrocketing right now. It seems like nothing to go from 1% to 2%, but that's 100% growth in one year. Nat gas might be a lot cheaper than wood in a couple of years. I think it makes sense for many to have multiple options for heating your home. Switch between them as the market conditions shift.

One day geothermal is going to be cheap, but only because everything else got so expensive.

 

[PA. Woodsman]

The farm near me processes about 81 cords a year and sells it by the facecord starting in september.

Last year they were selling it through October and took about 8 weeks to sell it all.

They went from 81 cords to zero in about 2 weeks this year. They be sold out faster than ever.

If they keep going at that rate they'll be able to quit farming !

 

[WiscWoody]

Maybe its true but so many people cut their own or scrounge from homeowners and landscapers. Scrounging seems industrious and positive with sources like Craigslist. Word of mouth with coworkers and family and neighbors.
And burning wood helps clean up woodlots of weakened trees and deadfall, etc...one person at a time.
It seems somewhat removed from the commercial industry of timber harvesting. To me...it just reads as a price gouging propaganda.

I have never paid for my wood but I live in a hardwood forest and wood is easy to find and landowners usually allow me to take downed or standing dead trees. There so much that I couldn't take it all. But many can't do the scrounging because of health problems or age and some just choose not to scrounge.

 

[Fred Wright]

Part of the shortage is due to low timber prices. Loggers are slowing production because profits are down.

But there's truth to the increase in residential wood heating. Around here a lot of folks burn wood. This is Amish country; all the Amish heat with wood. Everybody and his uncle is out scrounging. Tree companies won't drop off unwanted logs or rounds for free because there is no unwanted wood.

This year has been a first - folks stopping by to ask if we sell firewood. They see the stacks here and stop to ask. We don't sell but I guess folks think we do.

 

[Silenced38]

Its funny but when propane hit $4 a gal. They said it was because of the shortage. But everbody i know that ordered propane got propane. A shortage would indicate thats some people couldnt get any because there wasnt enough. But thats not what happened! Everybody got some they just had to pay twice as much! So where was the shortage?

 

[lindnova]

Its funny but when propane hit $4 a gal. They said it was because of the shortage. But everbody i know that ordered propane got propane. A shortage would indicate thats some people couldnt get any because there wasnt enough. But thats not what happened! Everybody got some they just had to pay twice as much! So where was the shortage?

Around here (Minnesota) they were trucking it in from somewhere south of here (Kansas?). Trucks were lined up at the terminal down there and there were real costs in transportation to get it here. Overtime for truckers - the governor relaxed the driving hours if trucks were hauling propane. I am sure there was some price gouging going on with the oil companies also. Unfortunately that is how capitalism works, but there should be some investment with that money for pipelines and storage to balance things out. Instead a pipeline from Minnesota to Canada was converted to transporting liquids up to Canada for the tar sands extraction, which was a major reason for the price gouging. Farms and companies (consumers) are putting in more propane storage this year which will help with shortages.

I am still smiling with 2 years worth of wood stacked up and the pile growing this fall. Still plenty of dead elms for me. I had to fill the propane tank up this month for the first time in 2 years.

 

[WiscWoody]

Clinton ordered a million barrel strategic home heating oil reserve to be built in 2000 after a shortage and it is said that it has helped to stabilize the oil prices in the north east. There was talk of something similar for propane in the Midwest but I haven't heard anything on it lately. Last year it was the perfect storm for LP. Corn drying, arctic cold and pipeline changeovers or shutdowns. Reserves were at record lows and rationing was common. I've heard that it can happen again soon too. I'd imagine the reserves won't be increased anytime soon with the self serving congress that we now have.

 

[Silenced38]

But still if you had the money to pay. They brought it to you. So by definition thats not a shortage.

 

[WiscWoody]

But still if you had the money to pay. They brought it to you. So by definition thats not a shortage.

That is your opinion but some up here did not have the money for the inflated price caused by a supply shortage and had to leave their homes to live with relatives. I saw a LP delivery driver literally crying on the news because of the hardship he saw everyday. Here is a definition of a shortage from Wikipedia.

An economic shortage is a disparity between the amount demanded for a product or service and the amount supplied in a market. Specifically, a shortage occurs when there is excess demand; therefore, it is the opposite of a surplus.

 

[Silenced38]

Im sorry im nit trying to make anyone mad. I turned the propane off at my house because i could aford it. Thats why my house never got over 70* and was usually around 60* all winter. I bought a new wood stove this year. All im saying is the propane was there they( oil companys) used it as an excuse to increase the price. Because people cant do without in winter. And it did hurt people but the politicians didnt do any thing to help. What i saw was price gouging that hurt the people and made the oil companys double thier profit.

 

[sumpnz]

S38 - there's a lot of factors that go into the price of propane that you are not able to see unless you A) know where to look, and B) know what you're looking for. It's not just oil companies price gouging. There might be an element of that, but probably not much. Best way to avoid price gouging is to have a LOT of suppliers. That way if one starts to gouge customers can simply call the next supplier in the list. That works WAY better than .gov intervention.

 

[Silenced38]

I apologize to the OP. It was not my intent to cause a argument or offend anyone. But with the top 5 oil company's reporting a combined profit in 2013 of $93 billion (thats billion with a b). I find it hard to blindly believe what the liberal news media says.
So again i apologize if i have offended anyone. And i will excuse my self from this discussion.

 

[WiscWoody]

I apologize to the OP. It was not my intent to cause a argument or offend anyone. But with the top 5 oil company's reporting a combined profit in 2013 of $93 billion (thats billion with a b). I find it hard to blindly believe what the liberal news media says.
So again i apologize if i have offended anyone. And i will excuse my self from this discussion.

Don't worry, it takes much much more to make me mad. And we are just doing some healthy debating IMO. Even though I said they seem to be taking turns on the shortages to inflate prices I'm not much of a conspiracy guy but I have heard of proven price manipulations to make a shortage happen for example shutting down a pipeline in a high demand time or putting a electrical plant into maintenance shut down when not needed. You can have your say S38, stay in if you have something to say.

 

[STIHLY DAN]

The scrounge is a lot harder this year. There is definitely more competition.

 

[KindredSpiritzz]

I can't fathom why anyone would buy wood to heat with in the first place. Wouldn't it be cheaper just to turn up the thermostat regardless of what you're heating with? Only way heating with wood makes sense to me is if you get your wood free yourself. I could see buying some for a little ambiance in the fireplace once in awhile but thats about it.
If i couldnt scrounge my own wood i wouldnt burn.

 

[STIHLY DAN]

Around here even if I had to buy wood it would still be cheaper heat.

 

[sumpnz]

$/btu is a lot lower for some folks even buying their wood than whatever they're heating with otherwise. E.g. I have a heat pump. My electricity is around $0.10/kWh. I use about 8000kwh for heat over the winter. So exclusive heating wit wood would take about 2-2.5 cords per year assuming an alder/hemlock/big leaf maple/birch blend (what I have on my property) and a 75% efficient stove, and maintaining the same temperature as with electric heat. I could pay $200/cord and still come out $300 ahead on heating costs. Not counting the expense of the stove and install.

And my costs are waaayyy less than folks heating with propane or oil.

 

[Charles1981]

My heating bill with electric baseboard is ~400$ a month to keep the house at like 66-67 degrees.

About 2400 a year.

The stove and install cost 4000$.

21 cords of wood unprocessed cost me 2100$ and lasts about 4 heating season. Some might argue the labor involved to process this all is monumental...but it keeps me healthy and active and I enjoy it.

Electric Heating for 3 years: $7200

Wood Heating for 3 years : less than $6100 because i still have a 4th year of wood to burn and no more overhead costs.

After 3 years the stove has paid for itself and is saving me money.

The decision was a no brainer.

We don't have natural gas and Propane is always a possibility but we don't have HVAC in our house... so imaging the install costs to place HVAC, Propane Furnace, Propane Tank, and refueling.

The only time we use the baseboard heating is when we leave for vacation.

 

[KindredSpiritzz]

Near as i can figure for me to heat with natural gas it'd cost me between $100 to $150 per month. Buying a cord of wood runs about $110 from what i have seen/heard.
How long would a cord last me im not sure. In the wood furnace it'd be gone in 2 weeks, havent figured out my new wood stove usage yet. So for me to buy wood wouldnt pay. Course maybe using propane, oil or electric it'd be different i suppose. I have no experience with any of those heating mediums.

 

[Charles1981]

It isn't cost effective to heat with wood if you already have natural gas.

Oil, Propane, and Electric on the other hand are markedly more expensive.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

It isn't cost effective to heat with wood if you already have natural gas.

Oil, Propane, and Electric on the other hand are markedly more expensive.

Not always. Gas companies are not all created equal. Our local gas Co charges more for using their rusty pipes, and renting their meter than the gas itself cost. First they frack the well, then the customer. Been there ,not going back.

 

[WiscWoody]

The cheapest way to heat a home up here is by buying 10 logger cords, a truck load for $800. A guy down the road did that and he heats his average sized home for 3 years that way. And it gets real cold here. Last year we logged nearly 7,000 heating degree days.


**Edit: I mean the cheapest way besides the almighty scrounge.