Leave or Drop?

[thewoodlands]

This area has some nice size beech so the smaller stuff needs thinning or I can cut some of the bigger beech then let some of the smallest grow, what would the best thing to do.
We are set for hardwood (beech & sugar maple) for 3 years so the wood is not the reason.



zap

 

[certified106]

Zap, can you get a state forester to walk the property with you and advise how you could manage the trees? Both my Dad and I have had this done and it was very interesting as well as informative. They will usually even work a management plan for you if you are so inclined. Not sure if you were looking for that kind of advice just though I would suggest it if you were interested.

 

[thewoodlands]

thanks certified106, I'll check into that. I don't think the previous owner ever had it done.


zap

 

[Wood Duck]

If I owned some forest I would cut based more on what I want to leave behind than what I want to take. For me that would mean leaving behind a stand of nice, large, straight trees, leaving at least some of each species present (i.e. don't cut the only xxx on the property), and leaving more of the better firewood, timber and wildlife trees compared to the other trees. I would also want a nice selection and healthy growth of small trees and shrubs, so sometimes I might be thinning trees just to allow shrubs to thrive beneath. Add to that the need to maintain trails, and I'd end up with a bunch of trees that could be removed without taking away too much that I want to keep.

For that stand of Beech, I'd pick out some nice, big , straight ones that are not too close together, and cut a lot of the smaller stuff from in between them. I am not, and maybe you are not either, a pro who can remove trees in tight places leaving others undamaged, so some places I'd either have to leave or remove more than my plan might indicate, but the general idea would be to leave behind the best trees and remove smaller or less perfect ones.

 

[nrford]

Clear it out, Beech never was and never will be anything but firewood.(Never much saw timber value)If you get rid of it perhaps that H. Maple and Cherry you have will grow back. If you have beech growing it is too dark in there "Let the sunshine in!"

 

[nrford]

Most any Hardwood sawmill with a forester on staff can also provide this info no strings attached, as well.

 

[jatoxico]

I can't add much considering the knowledge base here and what you already possess but...

I read somewhere that an old way of cutting was to cut trees with leaves on, especially after tree just leafs out. Then leave the tree with leaves on to dry. Moisture gets lost through leaves as they dry. Limbing and cutting comes later in year. Since you're in no rush for the wood maybe wait till spring before thinning as desired when you'll only be 2 years ahead!

Heard to cut in winter when dormant too but I thought this sounded interesting anyway.

 

[billb3]

I'd thin out the small ones as they;re just waiting for a big one to drop.

Although some old beeches will rot on the inside so you might want to look for those.

 

[rottiman]

A old time bush cutter once told me that a 50 acre bush can keep a person in firewood for a lifetime if you just keep after the dead, diseased and thinning that needs t/b done. The suggestion about seeking a state forester is the way I'd be going too. from all the pictures I have seen, you have a awesome bush to work with, good luck

 

[barkeatr]

it depends on the rest of your forest? the area with the larger beeches seems pretty thick. it might be good to leave some thick areas for certain wildlife/diversity....birds that dont like open areas and so forth. if i recall beech hold thier leaves longer than most decidious also. if your hunter some thick areas might be good to make the deer think they have protection. these are just random thoughts...simliar to mine when i decide what to leave and what to cut on my back 50.

 

[maplewood]

We thin out what we don't want, for species and spacing reasons, so the best stuff will grow better.
Either I'll cut what remains as I get older, or my kids will cut it when they inherit the house and land.
But for now, I tolerate burning the poorer quality trees for the sake of seeing the land improve.
I have about half of my 6 acres cleaned up so I can walk about easily, with the trees at about 6' spacing and a nice mix of species.
Looking forward to the next 3 acres getting done, and working on my sister's next door 6 acres, too.
We have about 50% fir, 20% poplar, 5% pine and the last 25% is a mix of white birch and red maple.
I'm trying to encourage what few hardwoods I have to grow, taking the softwoods first.
I'll feed my Econoburn anything that's dry, and I'll be burning close to 1/2 softwood this winter.
It means having to re-fill my wood room in late January or early February, but the softwood is free to me on my own property.
As my few hardwoods mature, and I can start harvesting them, I should be able to burn 75%+ hardwood and only have to fill the wood room once a season.
We'll see!
Hope your plan works for you.
Thanks for all the pics you post.
Happy burning!

 

[jimbom]

The Conservation Department forester was very helpful. He suggested I first get all of the twins, damaged, dead, and unhealthy trees. For our soil, climate, oak/hickory and present conditions he gave me a rule of thumb for the trees remaining.

He suggested a tree with a diameter of X inches be given a clear area radius of X feet to the next big tree. So an eight inch diameter oak would do okay with a radius of eight feet to the next tree trunk. The advice might be different for other soil, climate, and forest composition.

He also suggested I select for oak. Apparently hickory competes better and will take care of itself in our situation. I was very satisfied with the visit. The young fella sized me up pretty quickly and decided to keep it simple.

 

[SolarAndWood]

Have you checked out the NY forest owners association?

http://nyfoa.org/

 

[remkel]

If it were me, I would be taking down some of the mature trees to open the canopy and allow the new growth to come up. Be certain to identify the little ones you want to keep and don't drop the big ones on 'em

 

[Cowboy Billy]

Zap

I would probably take a little of each but more of the smaller ones. I have found trees grow taller and straighter where there are tall trees around it. Also the nuts are good forage for wild life. Also the trees don't start producing nuts until some where between 30 and 80 years. It sure is nicer to cut wood when I can go to my cousins and cut trees that are 70 to 90 feet tall with few branches than 40 to 60 feet tall branchey trees on my property.

Billy

 

[JJWOODCUTTER]

Zap, most counties in NY provide forestry services free of charge, they will come out and survey your land and make recommendations as to what trees to keep and which ones to cut down. If you are interested they also will get a professional forester to mark your land on a map marking exactly which trees need to go and advertise for bids from loggers. There fee is normally 10% of the bid accepted, and they provide all the oversight for the project.

 

[Loco Gringo]

I was gonna suggest taking certified106's advice but it seems you did. Thats the best thing you could have done in your situation. Keep in mind that we are all laymen compared to these guys.

 

[golfandwoodnut]

I had a state forest ranger walk my property and found alot of interesting info. I did find that most of my land is too packed with trees for optimum growth, he had a tool he looked through that he used to calculate density. I have some really large cherry trees, he recommended either selling the for lumber or burning them since cherry trees have a limited life, like humans. Oaks on the other hand can grow for centuries. Beech does not have any real lumber value, as mentioned earlier, but we know it is great firewood. You do not need it now so I would not be in a big hurry, but when you need some wood you might want to drop a big one and open up the canopy a little. You can probably get all the wood you need from the dead ones though. Sometimes it is nice to have some small ones around for cover for the deer etc. All depends on what you are after. Another big thing with my timber is that I get alot of tree killing vines. I have found the best time to cut them is in the fall so as to not let them grow back again. A man with a little hand saw can do alot of damage to vines.

 

[smokinj]

Zap

I would probably take a little of each but more of the smaller ones. I have found trees grow taller and straighter where there are tall trees around it. Also the nuts are good forage for wild life. Also the trees don't start producing nuts until some where between 30 and 80 years. It sure is nicer to cut wood when I can go to my cousins and cut trees that are 70 to 90 feet tall with few branches than 40 to 60 feet tall branchey trees on my property.

Billy

+100 Unless You where to mill one...

 

[jpl1nh]

Glad you went with the forester. I burn about 4-5 cords a year. I have access to about 8-9 acres of about 35% softwood (white pine and hemlock, some red pine and poplar) and the rest mostly red maple, white birch, black birch, good amount of red oak, and some white oak, yellow birch, black locust, ash, hickory, and beech. Pretty good northeast representation. Just cutting dead and storm downed and some Craigslist scrounges, I have enough wood for 10 years to come. On top of that, I get at least 3-4 cord per year of the above mentioned mix from the 8-9 acres per year, though I do burn stuff down to about 1" diam for shoulder season. Thinning depends on what your intent is. Beech may not be lumber but beech nuts are good wildlife food. Are you maximizing firewood or aesthetic woodland? Is wildlife important? Want to change the mix on your lot? That's where a forester is the man. Beech is great firewood, seasons easily, lights well, burns clean, good heat and coals. I'd burn that all winter long if I had more.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Clear it out, Beech never was and never will be anything but firewood.(Never much saw timber value)If you get rid of it perhaps that H. Maple and Cherry you have will grow back. If you have beech growing it is too dark in there "Let the sunshine in!"

nrford, with all due respect, I appreciate your feelings simply because I too worked in the woods and also sawed lumber. However, Zap's goals might not include selling logs as much as making firewood.

btw, I recall one time we set a mill in a woods that was almost all beech. Fortunately we had some orders that beech was able to fill nicely. An added benefit was that we also got some very nice firewood to sell along with the lumber. I passed by that woods not too long ago and was pleased at the size of the regrowth.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Zap

I would probably take a little of each but more of the smaller ones. I have found trees grow taller and straighter where there are tall trees around it. Also the nuts are good forage for wild life. Also the trees don't start producing nuts until some where between 30 and 80 years. It sure is nicer to cut wood when I can go to my cousins and cut trees that are 70 to 90 feet tall with few branches than 40 to 60 feet tall branchey trees on my property.

Billy

Billy, you are correct about the trees growing straight when they are forced to reach up to the sun. Also, the beech nuts are great for deer and turkeys especially but not only them. Many critters love them.