Limited inserts for my fireplace dimensions? Other questions.

[JasonE]

Hi all.

I've been looking at putting an insert into my existing fireplace for a while now and still am not sure what will work best with my setup. I'm not sure, but the dimensions I've been looking at for a lot of the medium sized inserts don't seem to be tall enough for my fireplace opening. Is a 32" high opening unusual and does this limit the inserts I can choose from? I really like the Pacific Energy Summit insert but it seems like overkill for the size of my house and I would probably have to get the oversize surround (34" height) to properly cover my fireplace opening. I really like the price of the Englander inserts but dimension on those just don't seem like they will work. The Englander 13-NCI at Home Depot for example, shows an assembled height of 22". Thoughts, suggestions, feedback, criticism, all welcome.

Fireplace opening:
Height: 32"
Width: 37" in the front, 31" in the back (tapers)
Depth: 17" deep at the floor, 13" at the top as the back tapers up

Chimney:
Height: 16ft to fireplace
Primary Flue size: 13" x 8"
Second Basement Flue: 8" x 8"

House:
1 story, 1200 sqft (full basement not included), located in North Carolina. Fireplace is in the main room and the chimney is on the exterior of the house.

The chimney was inspected recently and is in good shape but I will be having flex liner and insulation installed immediately after deciding on the proper insert.

 

[Grisu]

Hello Jason, welcome to the forum!

It looks like you have a Rumsford fireplace. Those can be tricky with an insert because they are usually not deep enough; yours does not seem to be an exception. First, for your house and climate you should look at medium-sized inserts with a firebox size of 2 to maybe 2.5 cu ft. The PE Summit would be overkill, the PE Super would be more appropriate. If you go smaller than that you may find that you only get meaningful heat for 5 to 6 hours which is not good for overnight burns (unless you want to get up in the middle of the night ).

Have you thought about putting a freestanding stove in the fireplace? It would come you cheaper, no blower noise and it would heat better during a power outage. It could look like this:

Since you mentioned PE already, their Super Leg model is only 29" tall and should fit in there. I am sure there are others that would work. You can also look at rear-venting stoves like the Jotul F500, the Hearthstone Homestead, or the Woodstock Fireview. The latter is a catalytic stove which has a more even heat output and longer burn times. Plus, Woodstock has one of the best customer services around. If a freestander would be an option we can certainly name you plenty more stoves for checking out.

Your idea of an insulated liner is certainly spot on. Did you also think about your wood supply already? Any modern stove/insert will need seasoned wood with a moisture content of less than 20 %. You can rarely buy that from a firewood dealer so most people here dry their wood for 2 to 3 years in their own backyard.

 

[JasonE]

Hello Jason, welcome to the forum!

It looks like you have a Rumsford fireplace. Those can be tricky with an insert because they are usually not deep enough; yours does not seem to be an exception. First, for your house and climate you should look at medium-sized inserts with a firebox size of 2 to maybe 2.5 cu ft. The PE Summit would be overkill, the PE Super would be more appropriate. If you go smaller than that you may find that you only get meaningful heat for 5 to 6 hours which is not good for overnight burns (unless you want to get up in the middle of the night ).

Have you thought about putting a freestanding stove in the fireplace? It would come you cheaper, no blower noise and it would heat better during a power outage. It could look like this:

Since you mentioned PE already, their Super Leg model is only 29" tall and should fit in there. I am sure there are others that would work. You can also look at rear-venting stoves like the Jotul F500, the Hearthstone Homestead, or the Woodstock Fireview. The latter is a catalytic stove which has a more even heat output and longer burn times. Plus, Woodstock has one of the best customer services around. If a freestander would be an option we can certainly name you plenty more stoves for checking out.

Your idea of an insulated liner is certainly spot on. Did you also think about your wood supply already? Any modern stove/insert will need seasoned wood with a moisture content of less than 20 %. You can rarely buy that from a firewood dealer so most people here dry their wood for 2 to 3 years in their own backyard.

Thank you very much Grisu for the response!

I haven't did much research on the free standing stoves. Do they heat as well as a comparably priced insert?

I would really like to find a good insert but that looks like it's going to be a challenge. The PE Super looks very nice as well and with the over-size surround it would cover. However, like you mentioned that stove appear to be deeper than my fireplace. Any type of insert you can think of that would fit?

As far as wood goes, I've got a barn full of oak cut several years ago that I believe will get me through two seasons. I've also have a good supply of oak split in February for when that runs out in a few years.

 

[begreen]

Are you in the higher hills of NC or more in the lowlands? What are the average winter temps for high and low in your area? One nice insert that might fit is the Enviro Kodiak 1700. Also look at the Hearthstone Clydesdale which can adjust depth.

 

[JasonE]

Are you in the higher hills of NC or more in the lowlands? What are the average winter temps for high and low in your area? One nice insert that might fit is the Enviro Kodiak 1700. Also look at the Hearthstone Clydesdale which can adjust depth.

Closer to the hills but certainly not the mountains. Here are the averages for Hickory, the closest city to me. http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/USNC0312 Looks like avg high in January is 49, avg low is 29.

I'll look at those two. Thanks!

 

[Grisu]

Thank you very much Grisu for the response!

I haven't did much research on the free standing stoves. Do they heat as well as a comparably priced insert?

I would really like to find a good insert but that looks like it's going to be a challenge. The PE Super looks very nice as well and with the over-size surround it would cover. However, like you mentioned that stove appear to be deeper than my fireplace. Any type of insert you can think of that would fit?

As far as wood goes, I've got a barn full of oak cut several years ago that I believe will get me through two seasons. I've also have a good supply of oak split in February for when that runs out in a few years.

Hi Jason, you are very welcome. Most inserts share the same firebox with the stove model from the same company, only the outer shell is different. Hence, there is little difference in the heating capabilities between the stove and the corresponding insert from the same company. However, with inserts the heat essentially would become "trapped" in the fireplace behind the surround so most more or less require a blower to get the warm air out. Not so for a stove which is helpful when there is a power outage. You also save some money. Here are prices for the PE Super stove versus the insert:
http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/pacsup27.htm
http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/pacsupins.htm
It is probably true for most inserts that they cost a few hundred dollars more.

If you want to go the insert route, check out the Hearthstone Clydesdale BeGreen mentioned. However, I doubt the Kodiak will fit. Other options would be the Lopi Republic 1750, Napoleon 1402 or Regency I2400 although I am not sure if you can find an appropriate surround for those models; You may need to have a custom model made. Neverthless, give the freestanding stove some thought. I think your fireplace would be perfect for that.

 

[begreen]

Yes, you are right. The Enviro is an inch too deep. It would not work unless the surround had a 1" filler attached (totally possible).

 

[Dave A.]

Looking at your Rumsfort style fireplace, I think it's better suiting for a freestanding stove partially inside and partially sitting on the hearth, than an insert. The opening 32x37 is just too large and not proportioned for an insert and it's surround. Also the Rumsfort back is geared to project the heat out into the room. A surround is going to trap that heat and you don't have the depth in your fireplace for most inserts.

Look at the picture in Grisu's message, an insert would just be wrong for that fireplace. Granted yours isn't quite that large but it is proportioned square like that and it is higher than most fireplaces, high enough for many freestanding stoves even with a top flue exit.

That's my opinion anyway. You didn't indicate the depth of the hearth but from the photo it looks fairly deep, deep enough for many stoves. If you go with Woodstock soapstone, the Keystone, Fireview or Progress Hybrid, they don't have a front door which cuts down on the front hearth clearance requirement since they load from the side. The Progress is probably too much stove for your size house and climate. Possibly the Keystone (about the nicest looking one, imo). And they're all cat stoves so you get relatively uniform heat output through the burn period.

 

[JasonE]

Hi Jason, you are very welcome. Most inserts share the same firebox with the stove model from the same company, only the outer shell is different. Hence, there is little difference in the heating capabilities between the stove and the corresponding insert from the same company. However, with inserts the heat essentially would become "trapped" in the fireplace behind the surround so most more or less require a blower to get the warm air out. Not so for a stove which is helpful when there is a power outage. You also save some money. Here are prices for the PE Super stove versus the insert:
http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/pacsup27.htm
http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/pacsupins.htm
It is probably true for most inserts that they cost a few hundred dollars more.

If you want to go the insert route, check out the Hearthstone Clydesdale BeGreen mentioned. However, I doubt the Kodiak will fit. Other options would be the Lopi Republic 1750, Napoleon 1402 or Regency I2400 although I am not sure if you can find an appropriate surround for those models; You may need to have a custom model made. Neverthless, give the freestanding stove some thought. I think your fireplace would be perfect for that.

Ok, after doing some looking at the local fireplace and patio showroom over the weekend, I believe we are going to have to go the free standing route. However, I still have some doubts what I can fit in there free standing wise.

As mentioned before, I have a 32" high opening. Assuming I have to extend the hearth with a hearth pad that's 1.5" thick, do you believe I could squeeze an Englander 30-NC in the opening? The specs on that stove are 29.75" high. With the hearth pad, that would be a very tight fit but if I'm going to get a new stove, I want to get one bigger than required.

I also looked at a very nice Jotul f400 that was quite a bit pricier even on sale ($1700) and the Englander 13-NC over the weekend but I'm not sure I will get the all night burns I'm looking for out of those stoves.

If the 30-NC is too big, any recommendations on a stove that will heat 1200 sqft easy, preferably sit back in my fire place safely, and run around the same price as the 30-NC? That's probably a lot to ask for

Thanks again for the help.

** Edit. Oh, I forgot to mention, I like the PE Super 27 you mentioned, I just haven't found one in a showroom near me yet.

 

[Grisu]

Hi Jason,

How deep is your hearth and how is it constructed? You may not need to put the stove on top of a hearth board; putting it in front of the stove may be enough depending which model you get. The problem is any cheaper steel stove will usually require larger clearances than more expensive models.

Your budget is around $1000 for the stove, right? You may want to get a stove with a firebox of 2 to 2.5 cu ft. More should really be not necessary for your home and climate. The Pacific Energy True North is 28" tall and has a 1.9 cu ft firebox similar to the PE Super which would have no trouble heating your space. Another not so expensive option would be the Drolet 1800 Escape although that gets close with the height. The leg model of the Lopi 1750 Republic/Avalon 1750 Spokane would also be an easy fit. I mentioned some other options with rear-venting earlier but those would be more expensive. You may, however, look for a used stove for those. There are other, usually better looking options but you would be looking at upwards of $1500 then.

 

[begreen]

There's no need for a hearth pad in the fireplace under the stove. It is already solid masonry. If you need a hearth extension to provide protection after the hearth that is a separate issue.

 

[Grisu]

Just saw your edit. The closest dealer I could find around Hickory is:
Stout's Country Hearth
1438 US Hwy 21 S
Glade Valley, NC
But you can try for yourself: http://www.pacificenergy.net/showroom.php

 

[JasonE]

There's no need for a hearth pad in the fireplace under the stove. It is already solid masonry. If you need a hearth extension to provide protection after the hearth that is a separate issue.

Yeah I was thinking I would need an extension. I have 29" to the back of my fireplace counting the hearth (hearth is only about 12.5") and with the way my fireplace slopes, I won't be able to move a stove all the way to the back. I wasn't sure this would give me the required space in front of the stove.

This is tough, there are so many brands and so many opinions. I may make a trip to see some of the PE stoves in person later this week.

 

[begreen]

Sounds good. Stoves that only require ember protection will be the easiest to provide a hearth extension for.