Liner Insulation Question

[laynes69]

I had a couple questions. I knew that this summer I would re-line my chimney with a liner. I had deposits that were horrible that were in the base of the chimney from the old woodfurnace that I couldn't get to. So I treated the chimney quite a few times in the spring and burned very hot fires to break down what was there. Everything is almost removed, but there still is a layer less than a 1/16th of an inch here and there of creosote. I have swept and swept and the first maybe 2 feet or so above the thimble still has a little. I plan on either using a thermix mix or straight vermiculite to insulate the liner. If the base of the chimney is sealed and the liner is packed in with vermiculite and the top of the chimney is sealed, if the liner comes in contact with anything thats left do I worry about it catching fire? I figure the insulation will help keep the heat away from the old clay liner and also stop any oxygen that can get to the fire. I'm OCD about the cleaning and I just can't get it all.

 

[soupy1957]

Ashland, Ohio eh? Right now (although I'm from Connecticut) I'm sitting in a family home in the Akron area, wondering how far I am from your location. Only because, if I were nearby, I could take a look at the situation in person, and be better able to suggest.

On the other hand, just reading what you put there, .............my gutt reaction says: "get a pro" to look it over. Yeah, there's a cost involved, but ............

-Soupy1957

 

[Todd]

I think whats more important than insulating a liner is burning dry wood. Burning fully seasoned dry 15-20% firewood will eliminate most if not all worries of a chimney fire. That being said insulation won't hurt and would help your draft some if you had a short or outside walled chimney and may even make your burning a little more efficient. I plan on insulating with perlite for my new Keystone install more because I'll have a short 13' outside walled masonry chimney and also to keep those cold down drafts at bay while the stove is not in use.

 

[ansehnlich1]

I think whats more important than insulating a liner is burning dry wood. Burning fully seasoned dry 15-20% firewood will eliminate most if not all worries of a chimney fire. That being said insulation won't hurt and would help your draft some if you had a short or outside walled chimney and may even make your burning a little more efficient. I plan on insulating with perlite for my new Keystone install more because I'll have a short 13' outside walled masonry chimney and also to keep those cold down drafts at bay while the stove is not in use.

The way I read the original post is, the question was not whether to line or not or to insulate or not. The question was regarding the creosote buildup that is not removed PRIOR to lining the chimney, and whether that creosote would present a hazard AFTER lining the chimney.

I agree with soupy and think a pro should be consulted.

 

[Todd]

I think whats more important than insulating a liner is burning dry wood. Burning fully seasoned dry 15-20% firewood will eliminate most if not all worries of a chimney fire. That being said insulation won't hurt and would help your draft some if you had a short or outside walled chimney and may even make your burning a little more efficient. I plan on insulating with perlite for my new Keystone install more because I'll have a short 13' outside walled masonry chimney and also to keep those cold down drafts at bay while the stove is not in use.

The way I read the original post is, the question was not whether to line or not or to insulate or not. The question was regarding the creosote buildup that is not removed PRIOR to lining the chimney, and whether that creosote would present a hazard AFTER lining the chimney.

I agree with soupy and think a pro should be consulted.

Oh, yeah, your right, my bad. I agree, maybe it's time for a certified sweep to take a look.

 

[laynes69]

The deposits are here and there. Not solid and not thick at all. The cavity between the clay liner and stainless liner will be poured insulation. Either vermiculite or a thermix mix. When the top and base of the chimney are sealed and the area around the stainless liner is fully insulated can any deposits be ignited and burn? What I figured was no because of the lack of oxygen and the heat would have to go through the insulation but I wanted to make sure.

 

[vvvv]

I had a couple questions. I knew that this summer I would re-line my chimney with a liner. I had deposits that were horrible that were in the base of the chimney from the old woodfurnace that I couldn't get to. So I treated the chimney quite a few times in the spring and burned very hot fires to break down what was there. Everything is almost removed, but there still is a layer less than a 1/16th of an inch here and there of creosote. I have swept and swept and the first maybe 2 feet or so above the thimble still has a little. I plan on either using a thermix mix or straight vermiculite to insulate the liner. If the base of the chimney is sealed and the liner is packed in with vermiculite and the top of the chimney is sealed, if the liner comes in contact with anything thats left do I worry about it catching fire? I figure the insulation will help keep the heat away from the old clay liner and also stop any oxygen that can get to the fire. I'm OCD about the cleaning and I just can't get it all.

wow= u got creo after burning your furnace as per the video?

 

[laynes69]

The only place where there was creosote was where the flue entered the chimney. A solid mass of masonry at the base which was probably 14x15 or so then went into the 7x11 liner. I put probably 6.5 cords through the furnace and pulled under a gallon of stuff from the chimney. Due to the height of the chimney and the oversized liner by the time the flue gasses got to the top they were condensing and killing my draft. Those videos were fairly early in the season when I had good dry wood. Half way through I was burning cherry that had been drying less than 6 months and it was hell. Even then its better than pulling a 5 gallon bucket every other month from the chimney and worrying about a chimney fire with the old furnace.

 

[smokinj]

Layne I am getting very little creosote way less than a gallon with ss insulate flue.

 

[vvvv]

The only place where there was creosote was where the flue entered the chimney. A solid mass of masonry at the base which was probably 14x15 or so then went into the 7x11 liner. I put probably 6.5 cords through the furnace and pulled under a gallon of stuff from the chimney. Due to the height of the chimney and the oversized liner by the time the flue gasses got to the top they were condensing and killing my draft. Those videos were fairly early in the season when I had good dry wood. Half way through I was burning cherry that had been drying less than 6 months and it was hell. Even then its better than pulling a 5 gallon bucket every other month from the chimney and worrying about a chimney fire with the old furnace.

so u got creosote at the bottom of the chimney mostly? how were the deposits from the top down?

 

[laynes69]

Nothing at the top of the chimney. Everytime I looked into the chimney it was clear. There were alot of deposits I missed from the old woodfurnace. Some being at the base of the chimney. Just from what I had in place I was very happy. Getting a liner and having dry wood should wake it up.

 

[BrotherBart]

I had it in the same place with the basement stove venting through a two foot clay crock into an 8X11 tile chimney before I lined it. It was only about a foot up and thin patches after brushing. I scrubbed what I could out and lined the sucker. It is guaranteed that there is more than that at every mortor joint in the chimney. And every other one in the world.

Even if the stuff lights off, by end of fall it should have dried out and flaked off, it ain't gonna be a life or house changing event. It will flash. You won't even know that it happened. The raging, house destroying chimney fires are caused by a hell of a lot more sote than that.

 

[ansehnlich1]

The raging, house destroying chimney fires are caused by a hell of a lot more sote than that.

I just had to chime in and say I like the way you put that BrotherBart!

 

[laynes69]

Thats what I figured. I just wanted some thoughts on it. I have spoke with a few local sweeps and they said a little here and there won't pose any problems. Especially with a poured in insulation which will help protect things. With a dead air space and insulation I won't worry about it. With a liner and insulation it will be 100% better than whats there now both in performance and safety. I'll make sure when I install the liner that I will keep a space around the base of the liner from the walls of the old liner so insulation will fill those voids.

 

[oconnor]

You can get spacers the liner to hold it centered if you are concerned. Whatever you use, just follow the instructions that come with the liner. I say this a lot, but once again, not insulating the liner according to the instructions that come with it (the liner, not the insulation) voids any code required specs. Some liners don't permit poured insulation, some do.