Liner / Stove Collar Problem

[DeePee]

When my insert and liner were installed last fall, everything looked nice a neat. I removed the faceplate today to make a block-off template to find the stove adapter collar is no long sitting normal to the stove surface. The RTV has deteriorated and fallen off as well. After lighting some incense sticks and putting them in the stove ( closing the door ) I eventually saw wisps of smoke above the stove adapter. I am debating fixing this myself or calling the installer back. I think the liner may have expanded and pushed itself out of line. There are some some bends to get up the damper and out to the chimney so there is considerable force on the liner.

 

[BrotherBart]

So much for WETT certification. No way RTV should ever be put on a stove pipe, liner, adapter or any other part of a chimney installation except for sealing a liner top plate up at the top of the chimney. And even then not in contact with the liner.

I am afraid that if that clown didn't know that, he won't have a clue how to fix it right.

 

[Todd]

Looks like a sloppy job and I don't think there is a high temp silicone rated for the high temps right next to the stove collar. Furnace cement would work better. Also check those connections rivets and screws may not be right.

 

[DeePee]

Thanks for the feedback guys. For safety's sake I'm going to have a different outfit come and have a look, I hope this is not the tip of the iceberg.

 

[BrotherBart]

Love the sig.

"Impending wood buffer under-run."

 

[begreen]

:lol: LOL :lol:

 

[Wood Heat Stoves]

Looks like a sloppy job and I don't think there is a high temp silicone rated for the high temps right next to the stove collar. Furnace cement would work better. Also check those connections rivets and screws may not be right.

i agree, sloppy job, but furnace cement will crack up in a few fires. Milpak is the stuff to use here

 

[DeePee]

[ For the purpose of this post, please pretend there isn't RTV smeared all over. I will spend tomorrow removing it. Also the adapter collar is intentionally out of place for illustrative purposes.]

I've done some calling around and have not been impressed with folks I've spoken to, therefor I am going to give this a go myself.

It looks like the installer initially tried to secure the adapter collar using a screw (A) through the hole in tab (D). The holes in tabs (D) do not line up with the flange on the stove-top (F) and the head snapped off of the screw (A); notice marks on tab (D). The installer then installed tab (E) securing the liner with a screw creating hole (B), however failing to remove the broken screw (A). This prevented the adapter collar from sitting flush in the mounting hole as screw (A) interfered with flange (F). Removing screw (A), the collar sits perfectly flush and true with the weld bead inside the stove. Securing it with tab (E) would place the new hole at (C), which is too close to the hole at (B) - I'm concerned it will tear/deform allowing the collar to shift and I'll be back with smoke leaking. I've removed tab (E) completely now.

My plan is to drill through the holes in tabs (D) allowing screws to pass through flange (F) without interference. I will then secure the adapter collar with three screws through the holes in tabs (D).

The remaining issue is installation of the flex-liner into the appliance collar. I checked the screws ( there are three installed relatively equidistant around the collar ) and they are tight. Inside the adapter there are five holes which I assume allow confirmation that the flex-liner is seated correctly. Attached is a quick diagram of the adapter as if it was unrolled, the red line indicating the center-line at the front of the insert. The green area represents how completely the holes are filled with the liner. The front-most window indicates that the liner covers just under half the hole. The two holes on either side of the center are almost completely filled with the liner, however I can see the edge. The back two holes are completely covered by the liner. I've also attached a picture of the adapter for reference, the 6" version has a lot less holes than the one pictured. Note that in my setup the flex liner comes into the fireplace from the left and the flue is curved, given the clearances I cannot get a straight shot and the components will always be under stress.

Can I consider the liner sufficiently secured in the appliance adapter collar?

I like the suggestion of the Milpak, can someone suggest where I would apply it - for example would I apply it inside flange (F) and then assemble, or would I apply it around the flange after assembly? Would I apply it around the interface of the flex liner and the appliance adapter?

Thanks very much for the guidance provided so far!

 

[DeePee]

As a follow up, I completed all work as planned and things are much better. I could not source Mill-Pac locally, but did track down a similar product rated to 2100F. The collar is secured in place with three screws now and so far there has not been a bit of smoke leakage and no 'fire smell' that was present at the end of last season. After letting the joints cure for a few hours, per the instructions, I had a very small and short duration fire. A couple more small fires and I should be ready to go. I really appreciate the suggestions guys, they were a big help. BeGreen, Dave, Todd and BrotherBart: if you find yourselves in Toronto, I owe you all a round.

I'm off to scribe the block-off plate.

Best regards.

 

[bren582]

Deepee, May I ask what you sourced as a replacement for millpac? I can't find the millpac either. The closest I have found is "Seal It Right Direct Vent Appliance Sealant" from Rutland which is rated to 800 Deg F. I have found that whatever is used has to remain flexible in the joint or it just crumbles from normal expansion and contraction. I tried high heat stove cement and it cracked, fell apart and worked its way out of the joint after a few weeks of regular burns. I'm wondering if sealent in the collar joint is even that important but I like to have everything sealed 100%..

Thanks..

 

[DeePee]

May I ask what you sourced as a replacement for millpac?

I tracked down a product called "Imperial Stove and Gasket Cement". I imagine it would be sold under a different name / brand in the United States.

I have found that whatever is used has to remain flexible in the joint or it just crumbles from normal expansion and contraction. I tried high heat stove cement and it cracked, fell apart and worked its way out of the joint after a few weeks of regular burns.

I can't vouch for how well this product will hold up in the long run, yet. It was easier to work with than other stove cements I could track down. Imperial also makes a Hi-Temp product that is rated to 2700F and is listed as 'heavy bodied' but the name of the product escapes me right now. If this product doesn't work out well, I'll track down some Mill Pac next time I'm in the States. I did find some Mill Pac on a few US online stores, but shipping it across the border in the time frame I require would be pretty expensive.

I'm wondering if sealent in the collar joint is even that important but I like to have everything sealed 100%..

Having fixed my alignment problems and mounting the collar securely, I'm not sure sealant is required either. I'm with you on the 100% thing, I aim for perfection at work, but when I try the same at home it almost always ends up biting me in the butt.

Lest I be a siren summing you to peril, you might want to find some Mill Pac.

Best regards!

 

[bren582]

Found info on it here.. Looks like the way to go. It's not a glue per say so you should still use screws to lock the collar in place.. Now I I have to find a place selling it online for cheap if possible.. Stuff appears to be a bit pricy..

http://www.igscorp.com/SealantDisplay.cfm?SealantID=7

 

[DeePee]

The specifications are far superior to what I used. I found the price range to be $20-$30USD per tube, which doesn't bother me - however see below for shipping. Plus I have to add brokerage and any duty/taxes at the border. Add the exchange rate on all of that and it becomes harder to justify. Especially considering how little is actually needed to seal the collar. I'll see how this Imperial product holds up. Maybe if it fails and I end up needing to dam molten steel at the same time, I'll have some Mill-Pac shipped up.

 

[theheatelement]

Let me check at the factory to see if I have any tubes left over, if I do as long as you pay freight you can have it for free. I'll check in about an hour

The specifications are far superior to what I used. I found the price range to be $20-$30USD per tube, which doesn't bother me - however see below for shipping. Plus I have to add brokerage and any duty/taxes at the border. Add the exchange rate on all of that and it becomes harder to justify. Especially considering how little is actually needed to seal the collar. I'll see how this Imperial product holds up. Maybe if it fails and I end up needing to dam molten steel at the same time, I'll have some Mill-Pac shipped up.

 

[DeePee]

Let me check at the factory to see if I have any tubes left over, if I do as long as you pay freight you can have it for free. I'll check in about an hour

Thanks very much!

 

[theheatelement]

Yep, I've got a few left over.. send me a pm with your address. I'll calculate freight charges.. should only be around 7-8 dollars..

Best regards,

 

[BrotherBart]

Yep, I've got a few left over.. send me a pm with your address. I'll calculate freight charges.. should only be around 7-8 dollars..

Best regards,

Be sure to send it to him via U.S. Postal Service and mark "gift" on the customs declaration and use your home address, not the company for the return address. Send it UPS or Fed-Ex and he will get smacked with a $35 customs brokerage fee and the customs duties.

 

[theheatelement]

Good call... I'll do that right now..

Yep, I've got a few left over.. send me a pm with your address. I'll calculate freight charges.. should only be around 7-8 dollars..

Best regards,

Be sure to send it to him via U.S. Postal Service and mark "gift" on the customs declaration and use your home address, not the company for the return address. Send it UPS or Fed-Ex and he will get smacked with a $35 customs brokerage fee and the customs duties.

 

[theheatelement]

DeePee.. I forgot to mention but Millpac is made from a company in Mississauga... Which is pretty close to you.. here is their company name.

Trocki-Gordon Supply

 

[DeePee]

DeePee.. I forgot to mention but Millpac is made from a company in Mississauga... Which is pretty close to you.. here is their company name.

Trocki-Gordon Supply

I actually live in Mississauga and Trocki-Gordon Supply is 3.5km (~2 miles) by car from my place ( much less as the crow flies ).

I really appreciate how you helped me out! I was mighty embarrassed when I looked at the tube and saw the "Packaged in Canada" label.

 

[theheatelement]

Don't worry about it.. I was born in Scarbrough lived in Markham for 10 years.. i've got family in brampton, north york, windsor.. and a few other placs.. Hope all is well.

DeePee.. I forgot to mention but Millpac is made from a company in Mississauga... Which is pretty close to you.. here is their company name.

Trocki-Gordon Supply

I actually live in Mississauga and Trocki-Gordon Supply is 3.5km (~2 miles) by car from my place ( much less as the crow flies ).

I really appreciate how you helped me out! I was mighty embarrassed when I looked at the tube and saw the "Packaged in Canada" label.