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Linksys wireless router question...

Post in 'DIY and General non-hearth advice' started by keyman512us, Aug 15, 2007.

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  1. keyman512us

    keyman512us Member

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    Now Goose... If you want to get techincal.Hold it right there. Cat 3 and up is TP (twisted pair). EIA/TIA Specs call it UTP...(Un-shielded twisted pair) and on and on... so the only way to judge a cable...is by the cover... and it's desisgnation will say something like "XYZ Cable Co... CAT5 UTP 22 AWG Tested to EIA/TIA 568 Standard"

    On a lighter note...Which standard did you use for your terminations 568 (a) or 568(b) ????

    MO... I would recommend the cheaper one because it has the simplest to follow diagram for pair arangement.

    If I get really bored...I'll start a thread of "How to terminate RJ45 connectors easily" ...To make it easier...when you are at the box store... buy a pair of KLEIN red handle multi-strippers (invaluable...best thing since sliced bread for 'small wire'...trims CAT 5 nicely) ;)

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  2. Gooserider

    Gooserider Mod Emeritus

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    True, the jacket tells the story, and unless you have a few hundred K worth of dedicated test equipment, is the only thing you can rely on (in addition to the Vendor's rep) for quality. Cat 3 is Twisted Pair, but AFAIK it was never really approved for use as Ethernet cable, even at 10 Mbit. However this is why I suggested to Mo that he was better to specify the cable with a Cat number than just saying TP, since that gives him better control over what he got.

    I'd have to look, but IIRC I used 568b (A is not reccomended) Of course it doesn't make a bit of difference as long as you use the same on both ends of the cable since the only thing that changes between the two is the wire pair sequence and electrons are color blind... However one thing I remember doing, and I think is a useful tactic is to grab a black Sharpie and color over the unused diagram on every punchdown connector - it reduces confusion when working at an odd angle. I also put a peice of tape over the "wrong" diagram on my crimper for the same reason.

    I would agree only if the cheap one is a "ratchet crimper". I don't trust non ratchet crimpers to give a consistent and reliable crimp, whereas with a ratchet you KNOW you got it right because the tool wouldn't have released otherwise.

    RJ connectors aren't as bad as the solderless crimps for automotive type wire in terms of their crimping sensitivity, but I had one place I worked where the boss got into a debate with some of the employees about why we had to use the big bucks ratchet crimpers instead of the 4.99 K-mart special "five way crimping pliers" The company had a mil-spec "pull testing" machine for checking crimped connectors and he challenged everyone to bring in their favorite cheap crimper and put it up against the machine. All 10 test crimps made by the ratchet crimper passed, IIRC out of about 100 test crimps made with the pliers, ONE passed - this was using the same wire, same crimp fittings, only variable was the tool... We didn't hear any further suggestions of using the pliers.

    Well I used one of the rotary jacket cutters intended to remove Cat 5 jackets to get the jacket off, and then either use the trim blade on my 110 punchdown tool, or the Ez-Crimp crimpers - never have to trim the Cat 5 as the termination process does it for me.

    Gooserider
  3. Mo Heat

    Mo Heat Mod Emeritus

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    I've had a brain storm. And since it's my first of the year, I'm naming it Alvin. It's definitely revolving around Cat 5. ;) Instead of putting a male RJ45 terminator on the end of the cable that's intermittently having trouble, I'm going to try and install one of those cute little female wall receptacles and have a non-monkey-rigged setup. This assumes I'll be able to get the cable into the wall from down below, which may be a big assumption. I'm told those wall terminators have the same type setup as the EZ plugs. They may even be EZ brand (or whatever the brand name is). Then I'll use a patch cord like most of the rest of the world instead of my current monkey-rigged cable sticking up through the floor and continuing on to the computer. Alvin is predicted to hit the bedroom wall sometime in the next week or two (new great niece is rearranging schedules and demanding periodic evacuations). I'll let you know how it goes.

    I appreciate all the first hand experience and info although I had hoped that one day I'd find at least one thing I knew better than everyone else on this web site. Holz Hausen building may be my last chance. I'm still holding out some hope since everyone else seems to be abandoning that style of wood stacking. ;)

    Goose, you've convinced me that a ratchet crimper is better, but I'll have to talk myself into shelling out some serious cash for a tool I'll probably get very little actual use from. The jury is still out. Maybe my female wall plate termination will get me off the tool hook.

    BB, you gunna terminate those fiber runs yourself? If so, man, now I'm really impressed! Hee, hee! That county office is going to have some fun. But, uh, aren't they working on your tax dollars? :eek:hh:

    Keyman, I guess you got your EE before going into the key business? ;) I've got a pair of red handled strippers, but I can't find the name Klein on them anywhere so they are probably el-cheapo made. Hopefully, they'll get the job done. IIRC, I'v heard it's a pretty tall order to properly terminate shielded twisted pair (henceforth Cat5, etc.) and get it to work. That's maybe why I've never heard of anyone using it.

    Man, lots of good info being transmitted around here...
  4. Gooserider

    Gooserider Mod Emeritus

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    That sounds like a good idea to go with a female plug termination and patch cable setup. Getting into the walls is probably the toughest part, but isn't that bad.

    When I was installing my setup I used the orange (code says low voltage stuff is supposed to be orange, as opposed to blue for AC), open back "old work" boxes. HD and Lowes both carry them. You cut the hole in the wall, plug the box in and tighten the two screws that swing out tabs to lock the box into the wall. As long as you don't make the hole to big they work great. What I found was that it worked best for me if I cut the hole, then ran my pull strings, and pulled the wire before installing the box - it gave a bit easier access to the wall cavity to do it that way. I anchored my pull strings by drilling a small hole in one of the back edges of the box and tieing the string to the box that way. Which way are you trying to run the wire? Down from the attic or up from the basement? - I had to go both ways in our house, the first floor jacks I got at from the basement, the 2nd floor I got by going up to the attic and back down, each direction had it's own kinds of pain... When coming down from above, watch out for fireblocks in the wall, they can keep you from reaching a jack installed at the usual outlet height unless you can drill through them (a 6' wall bit will work, but is a real pita...)

    If trying to find your pull string when dropping down, tie a steel nut to the end of the string, then reach in with a magnetic probe - works really nice.

    As to terminating the female jacks, I haven't used them, but I've heard of several designs of "tool-less" jacks, don't know how well they work. I used some that used a 110 punchdown tool, and those were pretty good. I don't know about the singles, but the ten jack bulk packs I was getting at HD came with a little manual tool that I've been told works, but never tried since I had purchased a real punchdown tool already.

    A minor note on STP vs. UTP cable - you can get twisted pair ethernet cable in both shielded (STP) and unshielded (UTP) versions. They use the same Category numbers and electrical specs aside from the presence or absence of a shield. In the US, common useage is UTP cable, in other parts of the world, STP is more common, I'm not really sure why. However from a practical standpoint, unless you are in a very electrically "noisy" environment (such as a factory floor) there is no real advantage to STP, and it is considerably more expensive for the cable, terminations, and all the stuff they plug into. In particular, you should NEVER mix STP cables and UTP termination hardware. An STP termination has an extra connection for the shield that wraps around the male plug and contacts a matching strip in the female jack. The shield connection in the female jack MUST be connected to a signal ground in order to dissipate any interference that is present in the shield - if it isn't grounded on both ends, the shield will actually induce signal noise into the cable and give a noisier end result than UTP would. If you use UTP cables with STP hardware the extra unused connections won't cause any problems, but if you try using STP cables with UTP hardware the ungrounded shield will cause no end of grief - thus my advice would be to avoid STP completely.

    Gooserider
  5. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Not gonna terminate'em myself Mo. Corning did it for me. One of the disasters of the telco implosion had the pre-connectorized, kevlar re-inforced Corning Gold MIC patch cables all custom made for their backbone in their new headquarters building sitting in the warehouse when they went belly up. Eight footers up to 320 footers. Bought the entire backbone for the price of a pallet of Natural Light. Sold enough of it three years ago to pay for those wood stoves and liners last year and a few house payments.

    I only have 18.6 miles of it left.

    In fact the plastic on my wood piles this year is tied down with six hundred dollar apiece fiber patch cords. Rain was coming and I was out of rope.
  6. Mike Wilson

    Mike Wilson New Member

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    You may want to check to see if you have a Luddite neighbor like myself, who went out and bought one of these, and is just having fun looking through the windows at night watching you repeatedly bash your head against the sheetrock whilst trying to figure out why your new WiFi router isn't working...

    -- Mike

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  7. Mo Heat

    Mo Heat Mod Emeritus

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    Up from the basement, on an outside wall. See photo below. I call it, "Sausage, Legislation, and Mo's wiring." I should probably be embarrassed, but after hearing BB's story of tying his tarps down with fiber cables, I hold my head high. 8-/ BTW BB, I don't believe you. That silicon outer sheath wouldn't hold crap... uh... or would it?


    Uhhhh, don't think I have one of those laying around... 8-/

    It looks like I might be in luck. That's how I start out thinking about all my projects, which is what allows me to start them in the first place. But that little cable you can barely see, just above the blue one, actually goes to the outside telco box. So maybe I can drill a hole right below where I'll wall-mount the female, RJ45 terminator and wall plate. Could it be that easy? I doubt it.

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  8. Gooserider

    Gooserider Mod Emeritus

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    Actually Mo, fiber cables rate pretty high strength - the fiber itself is fragile, but there is a "strength member" in the cable construction that gives it at least as much strength as a good extension cord. I'd say a fiber cable would be about as strong as that cheap polypropelyne utility rope you can get at the local hardware store. Of course you're violating all the bend radius limits when you tie knots in it, so I wouldn't want to use it for data transmision afterwards, but...

    To get back to your problem - I'd avoid the outside wall if possible, it is very hard to do a good draft seal and insulation job on a low voltage setup, among other things the insulation causes problems w/ trying to maintain your bend radii and trying to cut the box in is almost certainly going to mess up the insulation in that wall cavity. When I was doing the layout in our house, I went through a great deal of effort to minimize my outside wall nodes - I ended up with just two out of about 20. OTOH coming up from the bottom should make it easier to avoid dealing with any fireblocking.

    You might get lucky - one of the tricks I used a few times was to cut the bottom wire off a coat hanger and chuck it in my electric drill, then use that extra long 'bit' as a probe drill to go through near where I thought I wanted to drill, then look for the wire on the other side. The resulting holes are small enough to easily patch or ignore, the non-sharp nature of the bit made it less likely to puncture something problematic like a pipe and it gives you a nice definite "landmark" to take measurements from. (I've always found the biggest challenge in cases like this is to figure out the corresponding points on different floors or opposite sides of a wall.) Give that a try and see if it gets you where you want to be...

    Gooserider
  9. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    "BTW BB, I don’t believe you. That silicon outer sheath wouldn’t hold crap… uh… or would it? "

    Two PVC jacketed fibers covered with PVC outer sheath and Aramid strength cord sure seems strong enough when I pull them suckers down tight on the plastic on the pile. High wind night before last and nothing moved.

    I wouldn't advise them for guy wires for a radio tower or for rappelling.
  10. keyman512us

    keyman512us Member

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    Mo... "Fishing" walls is fairly easy just a few tricks to keep in mind.

    Using the coat hanger idea goose suggested as a "feeler bit" mkaes it easy. Personally, I use "insulation support hangers" (the stiff steel 'wires' that hold insulation between floor joists cut at a 45degree angle) take a look in your basement...they are probably holding up your insulation. ;) Put the 45 on the end, grab a cordless drill and sink it through the floor right up against the wall where you want to drill...makes lif easy.

    Speaking of making life easy...renting or borrowing a good drill and bit will make all the difference in the world. Nothing more "friendly" than a nice Milwaukee right angle drill with a 6" electricians 'ship auger bit' to do the job...

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  11. keyman512us

    keyman512us Member

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    Course for those more daring souls...my preffered "implement of wood surgery" the Milwaukee I affectionately refer to as the "Widowmaker" with a 1-1/8" ship auger bit... ;)

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