Looking for a large woodburning insert - Decided on Large Flush Arch by FireplaceX

[laxin213]

Hello all,

I am new to your forums. I have a home built in 1985 outside of Buffalo NY. It has a large brick chimney that goes throughout the house, with a fireplace that is over 8 feet wide. The house is 2800 sq feet, high ceilings in great room. We are looking to fill the great room fireplace opening with a large wood burning insert to throw more heat and be more efficient, but are disappointed with what we are finding - looking to see if maybe I'm missing a brand or a model that would better suit our needs/wants?

The opening I have is as follows:

-47" Wide
-30" High
-18" Deep, then tapers to 31" deep at back center
-1,410 cubic inch viewing area (47"x30")

The largest insert we can find for this opening without doing brick demo is by Vermont Castings, the Merrimack. It is about 26.5" x 31.5" and has a viewing area of 25.5" x 14" (357 cubic inches). We looked at the pacific FP30 (won't fit) and the Super 27 and I made a table that showed at least in the products in my area - pacific had a really good warranty and lots of positive reviews on here. I was leaning pacific, but my wife liked the larger viewing area on the Merrimack, and the overall style. I'm talking myself into cast iron advantages over steel, and I like that the Merrimack has 22" log capacity, as opposed to the Pacific Super 27 with only 18". So I'm sort of settling on the Vermont castings Merrimack, but with a price of around $4800 installed, its a lot to pay to settle out and not be very satisfied.

I added an attachment that lists many major manufactures in my area - along with some specs on electrical warranty, baffle warranty, blower warranty, specs on size, efficient and some other stuff. It might be useful to someone. I'm also attaching a picture of my current fireplace and a picture of the chimney that you see when you lie on your back in the firebox of my current fireplace - this will have to be demo'ed and most local installers are saying its not a huge deal to do so. Any specific knowledge on this fireplace configuration would be appreciated.


What I'm hoping for most is someone will suggest a make or model that they own or know of that will fit my opening better and provide for more viewing area and not too much more price as I'm near the top of my budget.

Thanks for reading...

 

[BurningBrutus]

Laxin, im in amherst, where are you?

 

[BurningBrutus]

Also, go with the Blaze king Princess insert, Thats my suggestion

 

[jeff_t]

The FP 30 is a zero clearance fireplace, not an insert. It is the same firebox as the Summit, which will fit in your fireplace. It is a step up from the Super.

The shorter log capacity of the PEs isn't a disadvantage. They are meant to be loaded north-south, meaning the splits placed straight in. This allows for better use of the full space of the firebox, and there is no chance of a split rolling up against the glass.

Vermont Castings hasn't been known for their customer service, and have had some quality issues the last several years, when the company has changed hand several times. It ain't the VC of old.

Here's some reading for you
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/vermont-castings-merrimack.51941/

 

[Bigg_Redd]

Friends don't let friends buy VCs. Keep shopping.

 

[BurningBrutus]

Also, have you been to fireplace outlet, there on transit and a location on niagara falls blvd.

 

[weatherguy]

We need to know if you can fit an 8 inch liner or have to stick with a 6 inch, an 8 inch will open up some more possibilities like the Kuma Sequoia. You can also go with a free stander in front of the fireplace. I'm heating 2800 sf and used to have the Blaze King Princess, this year I'm installing a Woodstock Progress Hybrid since I have to stay with my 6 inch liner and I wanted the stove with the most btu's.
Also don't get hung up on the size of logs that can fit, the overall cf of the box is more important.

 

[Grisu]

There are quite a few additional large inserts on the market. Here are some:
Lopi Freedom
Quadrafire 5100i
Osburn 2400
Pacific Energy Summit
Regency i3100
Enviro 1700 series (Technically more a large mid-size insert)
BlazeKing Princess (catalytic insert for longer burn times and more steady heat output)
Large Flush Wood Hybrid-Fyre insert from Lopi, Avalon, and FireplaceXtraordinaire (same insert, different outside look)

If you can fit an 8" liner down your chimney you can also take a look at the Kuma Sequoia and Buck 91.

Check each insert whether they will fit and if you have the required clearance to the wood mantel. You need also to make sure that you have at least 16" clearance from the door of the insert to the end of your hearth. Potentially, only flush inserts may work for your fireplace without the need to extend the hearth.

Have the stove shop put a block-off plate in: https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/make-a-damper-sealing-block-off-plate/ That will greatly increase the heat retention.

Make sure you have enough dry wood with an internal moisture content of less than 20%. Wood advertised as "seasoned" is rarely dry and should be tested with a moisture meter on a few freshly split pieces.

Have a full liner put in; an insulated one is highly recommended unless you are sure that you have all required clearances on the outside of the chimney.

 

[laxin213]

Hello Brutus - I am in east aurora. Thanks for the referral to the blaze king princess. Also I need to check out fireplace outlet still On my list. I was planning on working with SouthTowns fireplace who is more of a distributor...

Hello jeff_t - thanks for the lesson on the north south loading principle. I didn't know about that and I do see
The advantage now, thanks. Thanks for the summit by PE clarification. And thanks for the huge thread on the VC Merrimack, I will read it!

Bigg redd - thanks for the word of caution on vC. I wish the boss wasn't so hot to trot on them!

Weather guy- the chimney is huge the part on the roof is over 4'x7'. I have to think I can get an 8" liner down it. The boss is not inboard with a free stander in front of it at all. Thanks for the input and referral to the kuma.

Grisu- thanks for the huge post ! Still reading and googling the models !

 

[begreen]

If the boss is involved the BK may not fly. It sounds like you need an aesthetic compromise. Take a look at the Hampton HI300, the Quadrafire Voyageur Grande and the Hearthstone Clydesdale.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

Hearthstone Clydesdale.

Saw one of these in person a couple months back in a red enamel - by far the best looking insert I've yet seen

 

[laxin213]

Guys thanks again for the updates and model suggestions. I read the entire Merrimack thread linked above. Seems like people have complained about VERY loud (like 65 DBa) loud blowers on high. It would be near my TV so I sure don't like that.. Also with VC being sold a couple times and people getting stuck on the warranty aspect, bad stuff. Seems like blowers are getting wrapped with sound deadening material, getting replaced, and overall being a big hassel. Also, the burn times for such a large firebox are leaving many disappointed. And the blower is taking forever (1+ hour) to come on and guys having their dealer jump the control switch to manual and messing with it themselves. Some people have had good luck, but I'm hoping to Steer clear of VC..

Had a chat with the Boss. I took her early on to look at Quardafire Grand Voyager and the Hampton Regency HI300 in gloss brown. I though "shinny and glossy she would surely go for it". and the HI300 has a long model history, people seemed to have pretty good luck with it. I was focusing early on it the HI300... She hated them - too glossy, too overdone - she said "looks like a big Italian home in the 1980's." So I have sought to redefine her "Selection criteria" to as follows:

• -#1 - Large Viewing area (I'm on board here, hopefully get a decent inherent glass wash system). Going from a fireplace with a 1,410 cu inch viewing area to a Merrimack which was 352 cubic inches is a big step down. and that's a larger viewing area from what I'm seeing out there...

• -#2 No big metal handles sticking out ( Wood handle or removable )

• -#3 No silver, chrome, brass, gloss paint or shinny metal (flat black it seems is what she wants)

• -#4 Flush fit would be nice, but not necessary. No way on a potbelly type in or in front of the fireplace opening she wants as seamless a fit as possible.
  
  
• #5 "The overall look of the unit to be less intimidating". The Merrimack looks more feminine with rounded cast iron on the grates, the grates have wider openings. I can't find any other inserts that she feels are "feminine".

• -Price - HA! I have a price concern. a local dealer quoted me $5399 for a Merrimack installed with a 35' insulated liner, plain Exter surround and fab plate to cover more area behind it. . Seemed real high seeing people in the thread on Merrimack being quoted at $3900 - $4600 depending on specs and taxes. I'd rather wait til the spring and buy it off season if I have to...

I'm printing out pictures and taking her on Saturday to look at a few more. As it stands now the Hearthstone Clydesdale and the Jotul C550 are in the possible competitors. We've looked at most everything from PE (I'm showing her summit again) and osburn already (I guess enerzone is a division of the same company that makes osburn). I'm going to look at the blaze king princess too. Still looking for local dealers on the lopi, kuma and buck, and adding specs to my spreadsheet. But in the end it's going to end up with viewing area and if she likes the overall design and look and feel. I've been getting quite a few toys lately and I'm trying to convince her this is one for her - she isn't buying it, unless she picks it. We shall see

 

[Grisu]

Tough one. I suggest to take a look at the Enviro 1700 Kodiak or Venice, the PE Neo 2.5, and the Large Flush Hybrid-Fyre insert(s) from Lopi, Avalon, and FireplaceXtraordinaire (although those may be out of your budget). Problem is that large viewing area means large insert which comes with a higher price tag.

 

[laxin213]

The PE neo she gave a thumbs down on. But she liked the looks of the enviro 1700 (177 sq inch view) and the fireplaceX LFH (319 sq inch view) . We're going to look at both, but I got an over the phone price on the LFH of $4100, plus 800 for a 35' liner and 695 for install (says no tax if they install). So about $5600 total. I'm at about $1000 less for the Merrimack (352 sq inch view), but the .58 g/hr on emissions on the LFH along with the better warranty and seemingly better experiences with Travis ind make it compelling...

 

[begreen]

I'd get her to compromise. You want something that works well for years. The Hampton comes standard in black. The enamel is optional. Don't go for flush if the primary goal is heating. A flush insert always requires the blower to run. The Clydesdale's depth is adjustable and should also be a front runner. Not sure about the Jotul. Some folks love the C550 and others complain that it is not the best heater. Also look at the Enviro Venice or Boston 1700. They are the Kodiak 1700 insert with a fancier cast iron front plate.

 

[Grisu]

It looks like a completely interior fireplace. Any heat not moved out by the blower will therefore be absorbed by the brick and slowly released into the home. You will get the effect of a masonry heater. Two caveats: It will take longer to feel the heat with a flush insert when starting a fire and not using the blower and make sure to not overfire the insert when having the blower turned off. I have a similar type of install and run the blower only the first two hours of the burn. Then I turn it off and rely on the natural convection around the insert and the brick radiating the heat into the room. I have woken up to a cold stove and the fireplace was still warm keeping the room (house) nice and cozy.

 

[laxin213]

Great points thank you on flush vs protrusion. Saturday I hope to look at:

-HI400 in flat black (250sq in vs 203 sq in viewing area) looks like it loses some benefits of the hi300. Will have to check reviews.
-hearthstone Clydesdale
-jotul c550
-enviro 1700 Venice

 

[Grisu]

Honestly, I think your problem is that your wife has her heart set on the Merrimack which - what coincidence - fits exactly her criteria. Unless she says to one of the other choices:" That looks nice.", you will have to decide between getting the insert you want versus buying the Merrimack and the wife being happy. And as people say:" Happy wife, happy life."

Btw. Don't get too hung up on the viewing area. The fire will take up the whole space in the insert while I have never seen a fire that fills a whole fireplace. That "downsizing" will have less of an effect than you may think.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

Honestly, I think your problem is that your wife has her heart set on the Merrimack which - what coincidence - fits exactly her criteria.

WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER! ! ! ! ! !

 

[jotulguy]

Since you have a rather large opening and it sounds like you need the heat, have you considered a hearth mount stove? That opens up a whole bunch of new options for your installation.

 

[laxin213]

We did look into the hearth mount stoves a bit. But I think we really have it narrowed down to 3 models:

-hearthstone Clydesdale
-VC Merrimack
-Quadrafire 5100i

The local dealer for hearth and quad don't have the models on display. But a dealer out about an hour does have all the quad models on display - 5100i, 4100i and a grand voyager which we've never seen in person. He did say that the glass wash airflow on the 4100i and the grand voyager is much better than on the 5100i. He doesn't have a hearthstone Clydesdale on display though, but another dealer about 30 minutes further does. Hoping to head out Wednesday, thanks again for replies.

Edit: boss is really hung up on viewing size. I made some cardboard templates to show the difference between the sizes I measured off the Merrimack and the Clydesdale:

Merrimack: 25.125"x14.125"= 354 sq inch view

Clydesdale: 22"x11.5"=253 sq inch view

That sounds dramatic but TVs aren't sold on square inches, they're sold on diagonals, so I did some pathogrem theorem a2+b2=c2 and rounded to nearest 1/8th:

Merrimack: 28 7/8" diagonal
Clydesdale: 24 7/8" diagonal

Once you see it on the cardboard, the sizes are pretty darn close.

 

[laxin213]

Thanks everyone for the replies. Bought one!

We settled on a FireplaceX Large Flush Arch. Its made by Travis industries, same company that makes Lopi and Avalon. I wasn't too keen on the lack of projection into the room, but the guy showed me how it's like channeled to funnel warm air into the room even if the blower is off ( I attached a pic of this from the brochure). 3.0 cubic foot firebox, up to 24" logs, 80.3% efficient, and really low emissions like .5g (although I'm sure thats with some Frankenstein log that I'll never burn) and 12 hour burn time also swayed me. The boss liked the looks a lot, and they have an "Artisan" hand hammered face that costs like $300 more (rip off - boss wanted it), but the dealer gave me a couple discounts and I had a coupon from their website for $100 off...Long standing stove shop, good local reputation, CSIA certified (thanks Begreen for showing me that on another thread) ... It has a pretty decent warranty (a lot better than the VC). Due to install in about a month, I'll add pictures then. Thanks again everyone.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

Thanks everyone for the replies. Bought one!

We settled on a FireplaceX Large Flush Arch. Its made by Travis industries, same company that makes Lopi and Avalon. I wasn't too keen on the lack of projection into the room, but the guy showed me how it's like channeled to funnel warm air into the room even if the blower is off ( I attached a pic of this from the brochure). 3.0 cubic foot firebox, up to 24" logs, 80.3% efficient, and really low emissions like .5g (although I'm sure thats with some Frankenstein log that I'll never burn) and 12 hour burn time also swayed me. The boss liked the looks a lot, and they have an "Artisan" hand hammered face that costs like $300 more (rip off - boss wanted it), but the dealer gave me a couple discounts and I had a coupon from their website for $100 off...Long standing stove shop, good local reputation, CSIA certified (thanks Begreen for showing me that on another thread) ... It has a pretty decent warranty (a lot better than the VC). Due to install in about a month, I'll add pictures then. Thanks again everyone.

You avoided the VC trap, so, well done. Keep us posted on your FPX.

 

[prezes13]

I

Thanks everyone for the replies. Bought one!

We settled on a FireplaceX Large Flush Arch. Its made by Travis industries, same company that makes Lopi and Avalon. I wasn't too keen on the lack of projection into the room, but the guy showed me how it's like channeled to funnel warm air into the room even if the blower is off ( I attached a pic of this from the brochure). 3.0 cubic foot firebox, up to 24" logs, 80.3% efficient, and really low emissions like .5g (although I'm sure thats with some Frankenstein log that I'll never burn) and 12 hour burn time also swayed me. The boss liked the looks a lot, and they have an "Artisan" hand hammered face that costs like $300 more (rip off - boss wanted it), but the dealer gave me a couple discounts and I had a coupon from their website for $100 off...Long standing stove shop, good local reputation, CSIA certified (thanks Begreen for showing me that on another thread) ... It has a pretty decent warranty (a lot better than the VC). Due to install in about a month, I'll add pictures then. Thanks again everyone.

almost got that stove too. But my dealer told me it would be an over kill for me. Please post pic. And a review of the stove as soon as you will start burning.

 

[begreen]

Good going. Take pics before, during and after the install if possible. What's happening with the wood supply? This stove is going to want fully seasoned wood to burn well.