Looking for low-cost, hi-style wood stove

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I'm not sure from the blurry photo, but is efficiency rated at around 65%? Is this lower than the minimum efficiency for the tax credit?

Kudos for ignoring tantalizing side-tracks that would de-railed other forums. I am impressed.
 
[quote author="RenovationGeorge" date="1291603145"]I'm not sure from the blurry photo, but is efficiency rated at around 65%? Is this lower than the minimum efficiency for the tax credit?

Good question. Here's an example sticker.

epa_label.jpg


I don't think the VL-17 is 75% either.
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RenovationGeorge said:
I'm not sure from the blurry photo, but is efficiency rated at around 65%? Is this lower than the minimum efficiency for the tax credit?
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The efficiency rating system used for the tax credit qualification is different than the one used on the certificates. Both are derived from the same set of test data, but calculated differently.
 
I brought your photo of the inside into a photo editor, and zoomed in to see the lining bricks better. I'm pretty sure it is Skamolex inside. The edges are way too clean to be ordinary firebrick.
 
precaud said:
RenovationGeorge said:
I'm not sure from the blurry photo, but is efficiency rated at around 65%? Is this lower than the minimum efficiency for the tax credit?
Click to expand...

The efficiency rating system used for the tax credit qualification is different than the one used on the certificates. Both are derived from the same set of test data, but calculated differently.
Click to expand...

Cool, I wanted to make sure he qualified.
 
I went back and looked at them both. They both had the same tag. It's a generic tag for ALL non-catalytic stoves and is not a test of that stove. Says so in the fine print.

*The 17-VL has completely different bricks. Only the ones on the floor look like real bricks. The others are much wider (the sides are a single brick) and are lighter than pine. The back center of the stove is metal and corresponds to where the fan mounts.

*The Amesti has what look like real bricks. I jiggled them. They seem about as dense as wood. The floor is metal.

*I measured the interiors. The Amesti is 13.7% bigger.

*The 17-VL has two stainless steel pipes. The Amesti has three rows of holes in a sloping steel roof. The roof is 12" high at the front and 10" high at the back. The 17-VL's roof is flat.

*The latch and hinges on the 17-VL are much, much more robust, obviously, being a cast iron door. The door is still pretty easy to swing compared to other stoves. The gasket is awe inspiring.

*The 17-VL is crying out for a fan. That $100 should be added to your budget.

*I tilted them both. They seem about equally heavy. If anything the, Amesti might be heavier. It would be great if the 17-VL came with the door off to make it easier to lift. I'm going to ask them about that. It has hinge pins that should come up.

*To get the tax credit, you need the manufacturer's certificate listing the stove. Amesti doesn't seem to have one. The 17-VL does:

http://www.englandsstoveworks.com/manuals/2009_TaxCreditCertificate.pdf
 
rader, I've given you some details to chew on, now I'll give my advice and then step aside. As intriguing as it is, and despite being a N/S burner, I think it will be an underperformer, and will be problematical to own down the road. That secondary air system is a poorly-engineered kludge. I'd pass on the Amesti.
 
precaud said:
rader, I've given you some details to chew on, now I'll give my advice and then step aside. As intriguing as it is, and despite being a N/S burner, I think it will be an underperformer, and will be problematical to own down the road. That secondary air system is a poorly-engineered kludge. I'd pass on the Amesti.
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And no tax credit. I don't have kids so the fixed handle on the 17 and potential rolling logs would be no big probs. Our house is a Cape Cod (tho I have delusions of building an ultra-contemporary some day) so the styling of the 17 would fit better. If I can get the door off the 17, that will be the clincher (had one hernia already).

Both are impressive designs. I LURV design (can you tell?) so it was fun studying them.
 
Good on you for delving into the details. Makes for fewer (negative) surprises down the road.

All the cast doors I've seen lift straight up off the hinges.
 
precaud said:
All the cast doors I've seen lift straight up off the hinges.
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Doh! Never tried it.

When you order a 17 from the factory, they tell you that you have to inspect it for damage when you pick it up at the freight location. I guess that would be a good time to separate the door from the stove to make it lighter. I have to load it into a Suzuki SX4 hatchback . I removed the back seats which, coincidentally, weigh exactly as much as my golden retriever, 90lbs. It makes a pretty good hauler with a flat floor.
 
The door on my 17 does not lift straight off.
It has two hinge pins.
That said, a straight blade screwdriver will pop them right out, which of course will allow the door to be removed.
Should be handy for changing the door gasket too...

The 17 has about a half inch between the bottom plate of the stove and the floor, perfect for a two wheel cart, which is what I used to move mine into the shop.
Was very easy to manouver.

Rob
 
They were offering free shipping, don’t know if that deal is still on or not. Unless you live in the deep boonies, they should bring it to your driveway with a liftgate truck.
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For me at least, in Illinois, the "free" shipping was by common carrier to the local terminal.
The guys in the terminal helped me load it in my truck.

Overstock stoves may have had other options, such as to your door delivery, but it was not offered as part of the "free" shipping.

Rob
 
I had a chance to play with the Amesti stove at Lowe's Canada. Their both cute unit and priced right. But my guess is they are more for someone who is going after a certain look and likely an occasional user.

They are very light, I could almost pick it up by myself and the burn box is fairly small. If all you want is to light a log once in a while these will likely do the trick. If you want some serious heat with a unit that lasts a long time you may want to look at something else.

If European look is your thing, maybe save a little longer for a Jotul, Scan or Morso. They are well built and will last a long time.

PS. In Canada we've had the metric system since the 70's and I still cant wrap my head around it!
 
I see in Canada they're also selling the Rondo 450. Ideal for a small, modern house or cabin. Looks just like the expensive Euros.

http://tinyurl.com/2ejs4v9

R450 - 900 sq. ft. EPA Wood Stove

■ EPA certified
■ Airwash glass system
■ Burns up to 14 in. logs
■ Marble top included
■ Convenient log compartment
■ Made in Chile
■ Limited 5 Year Warranty


amesti_rondo_450.jpg


Too bad they don't have the 490.


amesti_rondo_490.jpg
 
Here's a video with an Amesti guy showing off their wares at some sort of Expo in 2009:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yB2gR92DwNM

About 1 minute in, you can clearly see how thin the doors are - a single layer of sheet steel as a door for their high-end corner stove. It isn't going to take much time for those doors, and the secondary air systems, to warp and leak.

It's pretty clear that they are doing everything they can to make these stoves look modern and high-tech while taking as much of the cost out as they can, anywhere they possibly can. I wish them all the best, but these stoves are going to be a hard sell in this country.
 
I wouldn't be heating the house with it except during an emergency. I'm sure I'll be going with the 17 anyway. Very impressive door on that thing.

Our cape code roof is way too steep for an amateur to access so I'm thinking of getting this flue cleaner:

http://www.amazon.com/Gardus-RCH-20...dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

Not sure how they work. I assume the simplest thing would be to remove the stove pipe and maybe set a trash can on the stove with a couple of wood blocks? We have two stories and a small attic.
 
raderator said:
I wouldn't be heating the house with it except during an emergency.
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And here I thought you were going to be a "real" wood burner... apocalypse now and all that. ;-)
 
precaud said:
raderator said:
I wouldn't be heating the house with it except during an emergency.
Click to expand...

And here I thought you were going to be a "real" wood burner... apocalypse now and all that. ;-)
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Hopefully, our Pinochet will restore order quickly.

I don't have access to a whole lot of wood. We'll probably end up burning our junk furniture, a blessing in disguise.

I really don't think the Amesti are crap. They've been handling probably some pretty rough conditions in Chile for 20 yrs. This is not a new design.

399fc73c86ed6ec34198654e856dfa87-3-4.jpg
 
raderator said:
I really don't think the Amesti are crap. They've been handling probably some pretty rough conditions in Chile for 20 yrs.
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rader, I'm not saying they're "crap", only that they are primarily built to be viable in the Chile market. If I have a "mission" on this board, it's to encourage people to look under the hood and learn what makes a stove a good performer or not, a good investment or not. There are lots of pretty stoves out there to choose from. May as well choose one that performs better and requires minimal ongoing maintenance which can be done by the end user.
 
I was just thinking. Lots of people around here have heavily wooded acreage. If it were me, in the apocalypse, I'd be willing to trade a dead tree I didn't need for a silver dollar.
 
OK, went up into the attic. The unused flue, which was installed when the house was built 30 yrs ago, is a Metalbestos SS Class A. Seems well secured. I can see down into the rising part. The sticker says 2" minimum to combustibles. The only place it doesn't comply is where it goes thru the roof decking, which it touches on two sides. Not sure who's fault that is. We recently had new shingles put on and a fancy steel chimney. I guess I'd have to take a jigsaw and widen the square opening or make it round on those two sides. I think I'll call the roofing guy since he should have fixed that or at least centered it. Hole may be too small even if centered tho. There's also a plate screwed to the side with a couple of small bolts sticking out. No idea what that is.

It goes 9' up, 3.5' at a 45 degree angle, then up 2' to the roof deck. Pipe diameter is 8" inside, 10" outside. Chimney is 3 or 4 feet high, near the ridge. Seems to be a proper box in the ceiling.

Should I post this as a separate thread?
 
Well, now the Amesti at Lowe's is $499, down another $50. Considering I'll probably need the fan with the 17-VL, that would be another $100 + shipping. So the total cost for the stoves would be:

17-VL ($549 + $112.01 fan shipped + $90.41 for pipes shipped) x 0.7 tax credit = $526.00

Amesti ($499 x 1.0815 tax) + $90.41 for pipes shipped = $630.08

Too bad the Amesti is not on their web site. I could get an extra 5% cash back on my credit card. I like the looks better, it doesn't need a fan in the apocalypse and it's N/S. Not worth $104.08 tho. But I wouldn't have to mess with my taxes.
 
Rad,

I've been using a 17 for a few weeks now, kinda soon to offer any proven facts, but I don't have a fan on mine, and don't feel any need.

That said, I'm heating a very small space, about 300 sq'.
I have no doubt that a fan would push a lot of heat from the stove though, due to the air jacket design.

Rob
 
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