Looking for some advise on new stoves.....

[MKirk]

Just found this forum so I'm hoping this is the correct place to post questions and ask for some advise. We just moved into a new house in August. Went from natural gas in our old house to propane in the new one and was a bit sticker shocked by the cost of propane. We are looking at spending close to $4500 a year in propane at today's prices......so we are instantly looking for alternatives and we've decided on getting some pellet stoves. Harman seems to be the top brand with the best reviews so we went to look at some today. Trying to figure out total cost and how long it may be before we break even on our return.

We are looking at two stoves. One in our great room which is our main living area connected to the kitchen. The second one is in our basement apartment. Originally we were considering inserts for both. The P35i insert for the basement as it looks to be the least expensive and would heat this area well enough as its probably under 900 sq ft. Upstairs I'm not sure yet - We were originally thinking only about the Accentra insert just because is could be installed in our current fireplace, but at the store I noticed the P68 stove is rated up to 68,000 btu while the Accentra is rated only up to 42,000. The upstairs area is very open and big. The great room area probably has a 20' ceiling (with a ceiling fan) which is open to the hall and bedrooms upstairs. Kitchen is just off the great room as well.....so due to the size area we are hoping to heat I'm now thinking the P68 may be a better choice. With the new stoves I'm thinking we would rarely use our cenrtal heaters (which we keep at 65 degrees most of the time - 63 at night)

I guess my questions are on some of the cost. For two stove we are looking at about a base price of $6700 plus options and installation.
What's a guestimate of installation cost for these? We currently have propane fireplace inserts (vented outside) that we though could be removed and the pellet stove inserts installed in their place. Is there much of a difference in installation cost between an insert replacing a propane fire place and installing a free standing stove?

Any thoughts or comparing the Accentra insert to the P68 stove....or other recommendations?

Does my break even math seem about right. Hoping if I cut my propane bill by 50% (gas stove and water heater) and estimating that 2 stoves I would use about 5 tons of pellets at about $6 a bag plus the cost of the stoves and installation... I should get my cost back to even in about 6-8 years?

Thanks,
Michael

 

[Lousyweather]

"break even" is tough when you have no idea what the furture costs will be of either fuel (propane versus pellets).....

as for p68 vs Accentra Insert? Big difference, in that one is a freestander (the 68), while the other is an insert. Also, the heat output for the P68 is very significantly higher as well (68k btu vs 44k btu).......as well as the P68 being MUCH easier to clean.....I'd take the p68 in a heartbeat...

 

[krooser]

A lot of folks here have inserts but they do present some challenges when it comes time to service and clean them... I prefer free standing units.

There are many good stoves out there that perform as well as the pricey Harman's, too. Take a look at many brands...

 

[FordMastertech]

Put a Harmon down stairs and a Quadrafire MT Vernon AE Insert up stairs, 60200 BTU input. The Quad AE insert will put out the heat and looks better than the Harmon P68 IMHO. Down side to inserts are smaller ash pan and hopper and yes there a little more difficult to work on and install correctly but they get rid of a useless energy hog of a fireplace.
Personal opinion here, I don't care for the the looks of a black box type of stoves I like the more traditional looking types mainly the cast iron ones, guess I am too much old school. Remember you have to see this thing all year long in a main floor central house install so spend the extra and get something you can be comfortable looking at even in the summer.
http://www.quadrafire.com/~/media/Files/Quadrafire/Product Brochures/bro_pelletInsert.ashx

 

[DexterDay]

$6.00 a bag for pellets?? Wow. I try not to pay over $4.00. As said before, explore all the options out there. The install (did mine myself). Was gonna be about $500. So this gives you an idea. Would be about $1,000. Plus or minus. Inserts will prob be a more costly install.
The Harmans are nice, but Look Around. Make sure you find a good dealer, who has parts on his shelf, and is has knowledge in these stoves.
I spent $3,300 for stove, hearth, and flue pipe. Plus or minus $1,000 a year for pellets (4-5 ton). Was spending $3500 avg on Propane a year. I have not filled my tank in 2 yrs and still have 35% left. Have not used the LP furnace in 2 yrs either. Our stove paid for itself within 2 yrs. Now it just saves us money.
Depending on how much you reduce your LP. And what you pay for pellets? At $4500 a year for LP. $13,500 for 3 yrs OUCH. If you can move the air around in your house, you can eliminate the need for any propane for heating. There are a lot of us on here that can do it. It is possible and you won't know till you try. Good luck in your travels..
Let us know what you get!!

 

[FordMastertech]

Another option is a pellet furnace or boiler and you can then heat your house just like before but with a different fuel source.

 

[krooser]

Another option is a pellet furnace or boiler and you can then heat your house just like before but with a different fuel source.

Good point.... also if you don't like the looks of a free standing unit when not in use move it to the garage in the summer... that's why God invented two wheel dollies.

 

[MKirk]

I took a look at the Quadrafire Mt Vernon AE insetr (website) - this was one my wife actuallt liked as well. That does seem like a good option to put a less expensive unit like the Harmon P35I down stairs and a Quadrafire MT Vernon AE Insert up stairs. Of course we don't have any dealers in the area that carry both so the PITA would be buying and dealing with 2 different dealers. Maybe the better idea would be to try sticking to one dealer and brand and install something like the QF Santa Fe Pellet insert in the basement.

One thing I couldn't find was the Quadra-Fire warranty. Any idea where it is on their website? Is the the same as Harman's warranty.

So am I splitting hairs here trying to decide between brands?

Michael

Put a Harmon down stairs and a Quadrafire MT Vernon AE Insert up stairs, 60200 BTU input. The Quad AE insert will put out the heat and looks better than the Harmon P68 IMHO. Down side to inserts are smaller ash pan and hopper and yes there a little more difficult to work on and install correctly but they get rid of a useless energy hog of a fireplace.
Personal opinion here, I don't care for the the looks of a black box type of stoves I like the more traditional looking types mainly the cast iron ones, guess I am too much old school. Remember you have to see this thing all year long in a main floor central house install so spend the extra and get something you can be comfortable looking at even in the summer.
http://www.quadrafire.com/~/media/Files/Quadrafire/Product Brochures/bro_pelletInsert.ashx

 

[DexterDay]

Quadrafire and Harmon are made/owned by the same company. Home and Hearth Technologies.. Along with Heatilator models also.
Not absoulutly positive??? But I think the warranties are the same too?? Someone Please correct me if I'm wrong here...

 

[jtakeman]

The purchase of 2 stoves would really make me look at the price of a pellet furnace depending whether you have forced air or boiler as the primary source. Heat were you want it and less chance of the rooms were the stoves are to be too warm while other rooms too cool. Plus the cost factor of 2 stoves to the furnace. And 2X the work cleaning 2 stoves.

I would at least look at the pro's and con's on both.

 

[Bigjim13]

The purchase of 2 stoves would really make me look at the price of a pellet furnace depending whether you have forced air or boiler as the primary source. Heat were you want it and less chance of the rooms were the stoves are to be too warm while other rooms too cool. Plus the cost factor of 2 stoves to the furnace. And 2X the work cleaning 2 stoves.

I would at least look at the pro's and con's on both.

I would agree with you on this one. The one DRAWBACK to puttin in a pellet furnace is the resale value on the house. Forgive me on this as I have limited experience with pellet furnaces. Don't the require the same amount of upkeep as regular stoves? If this is the case I would worry about the resale value of my house if I put in a pellet furnace. You will have people that are interested in the house until they find out about the pellet furnace. Not everybody loves pellets like us on the forum here, it COULD be a turnoff to some people.

If you plan to keep the house though for awhile, it might not be a bad idea. It's not a bad idea anyway, just throwing another angle into the thought process....

FWIW we have a P61A-very similar to the P68- and LOVE it. I wouldn't hesitate in a second to buy another P61A or a P68!

 

[DexterDay]

The purchase of 2 stoves would really make me look at the price of a pellet furnace depending whether you have forced air or boiler as the primary source. Heat were you want it and less chance of the rooms were the stoves are to be too warm while other rooms too cool. Plus the cost factor of 2 stoves to the furnace. And 2X the work cleaning 2 stoves.

I would at least look at the pro's and con's on both.

I would agree with you on this one. The one DRAWBACK to puttin in a pellet furnace is the resale value on the house. Forgive me on this as I have limited experience with pellet furnaces. Don't the require the same amount of upkeep as regular stoves? If this is the case I would worry about the resale value of my house if I put in a pellet furnace. You will have people that are interested in the house until they find out about the pellet furnace. Not everybody loves pellets like us on the forum here, it COULD be a turnoff to some people.

If you plan to keep the house though for awhile, it might not be a bad idea. It's not a bad idea anyway, just throwing another angle into the thought process....

FWIW we have a P61A-very similar to the P68- and LOVE it. I wouldn't hesitate in a second to buy another P61A or a P68!

But if you were buying a house that had a Pellet fueled appliance?? And they both required the same Maintenance? Wouldn't you go with a "whole house" heating system?
I have both, and if and when we move..... They are both coming with us.
Take them out and sell them if your not taking them with you. Then your sale value goes up and you put more money in your pocket. Just my thoughts on it.

 

[little_hawk_59]

i would look at a pellet furnace and check and see if you can have both in your area you would be able to run the pellets if you want and be able to run off the gas when needed.

 

[Countryboymo]

Yeah you want to keep both installed so if your doing maintenance on the pellet furnace the propain furnace is there to run or if you went on vacation blah blah.

I vote for a furnace rather than two stoves and still have central heat just pellet fired. With the money invested in two stoves you could get a furnace I would think.

My parents have had a wood furnace since I was a teenager and actually just replaced it with a new version of the same model last year and it is unbeatable as far as comfort goes.

 

[MKirk]

Thanks for the suggestion about the furnace, but I don't think I want to go that route. The one unit will be in a basement apartment so the tenant will be responsible mainly for loading and such so overall it's really not going to be double the work for me - could be though

I'm meeting with the Quadra Fire dealer this week to get some info but do have two additional questions.

I think the Harman Accentra info mentioned that you only need to empty the ash once per ton (not saying this is correct). Don't see or can't find any info on frequency of removing ash from the Quadra Fire Mt Vernon. Is there a major difference between the frequency of emoting the ash from either insert? Also, cleaning....does one unit require more frequent cleaning over the other.


Michael

 

[DexterDay]

Quad says empty once per ton, but you will prob end up doing this more. Quad is a more user friendly stove. (A lot less adjustments) I bought the Quad because of this. AND IT WORKS WELL. But.. I wish I had bought a more adjustable stove. This is after running this one 3 yrs now. I just bought a fully adjustable furnace to make up for this.
Quads only have 3 levels of heat.(Except Mt. Vernon) Low, Med, and High). No knobs or drafts. It all depends on how "into it" you are.
My CB 1200 heats the Entire house and does a great job with no Propane assistance in over 2 yrs.
Keep us updated.. Many of the stoves out there are a great choice. Make sure they are big enough for your application, and you will be happy.