LOPI ANSWER issues

[Smarl]

I just bought a used LOPI Answer insert,set it in place and started a fire.

-lots of smoke billowing into house whenI started it and when I open door-I do not have a liner. After reading many posts I plan on getting one (and/or a fan for the top of the chimney). I had looked up the chimney (approx 25'and its clear). I am guessing this is just a drafting issue since I have no liner and chimney is approx 9x12 (108 square inches vs the approx 27" once its lines)
-when I close the door the flame goes out (the draft lever seems to be working but seems to have no effect). This one puzzles me. Any ideas?
-the door seal has 1/4" of play in it (replace gasket?)

Any ideas on these issues? I think I have a clue on the smoke and the seal but the flame extinguishing is puzzling.

Thanks

 

[allhandsworking]

Your wood is not seasoned! Go buy some kiln dry firewood and start a new fire with lots of kindling! Yes a liner will help! but wood that is not seasoned a year or two is 95% of every new burners problem!

 

[Smarl]

good point. I went to gas station and bought 4 pieces for 5 bucks. It seemed kind of heavy and the plastic wrap had a lot of moisture on the inside of it. I was just so anxious I paid $5 for 4 pieces of wood!

 

[begreen]

How was this insert installed? Is there any pipe on it at all? If no, don't start another fire. This could be lethal.

 

[madrone]

You have no draft at all. No amount of dry wood will cause it to draft correctly. BG's right that this could be very dangerous. An EPA stove should never dump into a fireplace chimney.

 

[Wood Duck]

If you have poor draft then the air control level won't have much or any effect on the fire. If air isn't pulled thru the stove, then you can't adjust the flow because there isn't any flow.

you need a flue to pull air thru the stove. Modern stoves are made to work with a strong draft which requires a flue of the proper size that is securely connected to the stove. Your flue is too large and not tightly connected. PLus you'll never be able to warm up your flue enough to maintain a strong draft.

If you have thick door gasket I think the 1/4 inch of play might be normal. My door gasket is soft and spongy.

 

[Smarl]

Thanks for the replies.

There is no pipe on it at all.

On one hand I thought: why do i need a liner? More $, more time and if I built a regular fire (without an insert) I wouldn't need one.

On the other hand I read enough posts that reccomended a liner for performance reasons that I decided should get one (but I didnt know exactly why). I did not know that they were DESIGNED to have one.

I generally ignore safety warnings and use my common sense as they exist to avoid lawsuits ("do not put your hand in the garbage disposal") or are too restrictive (get a professional to clean your gutters). They are not designed for intelligent people that solve problems under real time and $ constraints. That said it looks like I made a mistake here and I need a liner. I am thinking a stainless liner (solid if it will work), blocking plate and cap.

Thanks

 

[Wood Duck]

With an open fireplace a gentle pull (or mild pressure gradient, if you prefer) provided by the chimney will pull a lot of air becaue the fireplace offers very little resistance to air movement. The stove offers quite a bit more resistance to air movement so the same pull from the chimney will not move nearly as much air. That is one of the reasons you'll need a flue with your stove.

 

[begreen]

If safety is your guide then surely reading the manual for proper installation of the stove is common sense, no? Being cheap can kill someone. Smoke is coming out because the stove is currently being run is illegally. This type of installation is called a slammer. If a downdraft occurs in the too large chimney as the fire cools down you can get a downdraft that can fill the house with carbon monoxide.

The manual is very clear about how large a pipe you need. In your large chimney the stove needs a 6" liner. This will provide good draft and a safe exit for the flue gases.

 

[Lighting Up]

Great advice BeGreen...thank God you answer him quick. You know sometimes I don't think we give the moderators enough credit....All I could think of when I read this was someone is going to die burning this way.

Smarl take back that $5 bunch of wood, BeGreen gave you very good solid advice. Read your manual get your liner installed and burn baby burn....safety first!
md

 

[Smarl]

With an open fireplace a gentle pull (or mild pressure gradient, if you prefer) provided by the chimney will pull a lot of air becaue the fireplace offers very little resistance to air movement. The stove offers quite a bit more resistance to air movement so the same pull from the chimney will not move nearly as much air. That is one of the reasons you'll need a flue with your stove.

Thanks Wood Duck. You answered a question I hadnt asked but really wanted to know. Since I didnt know the "why" I needed a liner I had to test for myself (under my direct supervision for approx 15 minutes.)

 

[DBoon]

When you get the liner and some dry wood, you'll find that the Answer will perform very nicely for you - it's a great little stove.

 

[robertmcw]

I would suggest you find a good chimney sweep to clean and check the flue before you do anything. I found a used insert and the liner and the cap and the sweep charged about $500 to do the whole deal and gave me an OK to use it. Then he cleans it once a year and I pay him about $125.00.

Priceless.

Fire is not something to do wrong.

My cents, Robert.

 

[allhandsworking]

Wow sorry I didn't realize you had no pipe at all.

 

[Smarl]

If safety is your guide then surely reading the manual for proper installation of the stove is common sense, no? Being cheap can kill someone. Smoke is coming out because the stove is currently being run is illegally. This type of installation is called a slammer. If a downdraft occurs in the too large chimney as the fire cools down you can get a downdraft that can fill the house with carbon monoxide.

The manual is very clear about how large a pipe you need. In your large chimney the stove needs a 6" liner. This will provide good draft and a safe exit for the flue gases.

I have not started another fire since the first.

I printed out the manual, skimmmed it and will read page by page. I received 3 quotes on installing the liner ($450, $1700, $3500). I reviewed the posts on DIY liner installing and am confident that I can do it myself. I will buy materials (most likely from Rockford) and install with a skilled and experirienced HVAC contrator I know.

Thank you for your guidance.

 

[begreen]

Good going Smarl. With a proper liner on the Answer you think it is a completely different stove. With good firewood the smokiness will be a thing of the past. Feel free to ask any questions you have about installing the liner.

 

[Smarl]

So I think I changed my mind. I think I am having someone else install the liner. I received 2 more quotes today (my wife doesnt want me to do it as my to do list is too long so she called two pros from angies list).

Both are installing an oval liner (chimney is 9*13 and insert opening is 6") as they say it is difficult to install a round liner with insullation with my configuration. They are installing a stainless liner with a cap and wrapping some carbon fiber from damper area to top of insert. They are pouring in some insulation and concrete type mix in space between liner and chimney. The guy I liked a lot more gave a bid of $1300 all in.

I priced the parts from Rockford and they are $1309 (and I dont think that includes the cement mix stuff+$400). It includes: liner, cap, bottom plate and insullation sleeve. I didnt include any coonectors between bottom of liner to insert as I didnt know which one to get but assume another $100.

So my parts costs is $1800 vs $1300. Plus I have never done this before so I am sure it will be a rocky road.

Seems fairly straight forward that I should have the guy do it. Am I missing anything?

Thanks

 

[weatherguy]

So I think I changed my mind. I think I am having someone else install the liner. I received 2 more quotes today (my wife doesnt want me to do it as my to do list is too long so she called two pros from angies list).

Both are installing an oval liner (chimney is 9*13 and insert opening is 6") as they say it is difficult to install a round liner with insullation with my configuration. They are installing a stainless liner with a cap and wrapping some carbon fiber from damper area to top of insert. They are pouring in some insulation and concrete type mix in space between liner and chimney. The guy I liked a lot more gave a bid of $1300 all in.

I priced the parts from Rockford and they are $1309 (and I dont think that includes the cement mix stuff+$400). It includes: liner, cap, bottom plate and insullation sleeve. I didnt include any coonectors between bottom of liner to insert as I didnt know which one to get but assume another $100.

So my parts costs is $1800 vs $1300. Plus I have never done this before so I am sure it will be a rocky road.

Seems fairly straight forward that I should have the guy do it. Am I missing anything?

Thanks

they should cover all you need when they do the install, wait til you fire it up once connected to the proper liner, it will be a completely different stove and you can sleep at night with no worries.

 

[webby3650]

That seems like a strange way to re-line for an insert. You typically see a flex liner with a wrapped insulation. The poured in insulation is more common in a flue for a stove. It would be much easier and should be cheaper to go with the wrapped flex liner. Also, if you ever wanted to remove the insert and liner, you can. I also see no reason to use an ovalized liner, 9"x12" is plenty of room to get a 6" liner down with no problems. An ovalized liner does not draw as good and the liner and all the components cost more.

 

[Smarl]

Update: liner is in for $1300. liner, cap and insullation. I discussed the oval vs round and he agreed that oval draws a little less but this liner has only out of round by 1/2". It's in now!. And cement should be dry. It is 70 degrees but I'll probably try it soon. Thanks for all your help. I have approx $2k invested in my project. I suppose in hindsight the $3200 I was quoted for a brand new Lopi Answer including liner doesn't look so bad. I always buy used and it almost always saves a lot. Looks like stove will have a 2 year payback and I love the whole idea of it.

 

[begreen]

Good going. It looks like you may get a chance this weekend to try it when night temps dip into the 40's. Have some dry wood on hand.