LP gas versus pellets ?

[Mainely Saws]

I know this has been discussed many times but I'm still trying to decide between an LP wood stove & a pellet stove . I need to heat 1000sq. ft. of well insulated open space on one floor . I have a woodstove but need something else in an opposite corner of my space that will be able to carry the load should the wood stove not be used for a period of time in the winter . It seems to me that with the cost of pellets & the cost of the unit itself there isn't much savings over an efficient LP stove . I currently pay 2.50 per gallon for Lp & the best buy I could find on pellets is about $259.00 per ton .
I've never owned a pellet stove so I don't see where there is an advantage to the pellet stove . I need to buy , haul , stack & then load pellets into the stove . I need to clean the stove once every week or two . the flame is not very attractive , the blower makes noise & there seems to be more maintenance issues with a pellet stove over a quality Lp gas stove .
Obviously , I don't mind dealing with these issues if there is a noticeable savings because I heat primarily with wood & have for years but I'm just looking a reason to deal with pellets over the " set & forget" Lp stove . If I add up all of the costs to both types of units it seems that the payback for the pellet stove would take many years but I am looking for advice from people who own them & use them on a daily basis . Thank you in advance for any & all help ........

Bob

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

".... that will be able to carry the load should the wood stove not be used for a period of time in the winter."

Just how long will this period of time be? You must at least check your burn pot every single day.

The next question you need to answer is how long do you think your LP is going to be at $2.50/gallon.

$300/ton of pellets is the same as paying $2.60/ 100,000 BTUS net in a 70% efficient pellet stove which is the same as paying $2.70/ 100,000 BTUS net for propane at $2.50/gallon in a 100% efficient gas burner.

 

[Mainely Saws]

I know LP gas, nor pellets will stay at current prices very long . I guess it boils down to how much more am I willing to pay for the convience of LP gas over pellets . If there is a substancial savings of burning pellets over the cost of Lp then to me , it's very much worth the effort to burn pellets & hope that the pellet cost & supply will be lower than LP . Right now I'm not seeing enough of a difference to warrant burning pellets . I also have electric backup that I don't normally use , but could if need be . Do you supply most of your heat with a pellet stove ? Are you burning pellets to save money over burning an oil or gas furnace & if so , have you saved money when comparing apples to apples ? I mean buying & installing a high end pellet stove like a Harmon or a Quadrafire is not cheap . All totalled probably over $4000.00 wouldn;t you say ? Lp stoves aren't cheap either . I really like the idea of a pellet stove & I don't like supporting the gas company but it has to add up to a significant savings for me to overcome the cost & maintenance .

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I have no idea what stoves you are looking at but you can get some decent buys on Craigs list at times.

I heat my house with wood pellets (have hot water and the garage off of a oil burner - a 75,000 BTU/hr firing rate boiler) in a basement installation. I decided to pursue the path of having options.

I've used oil, gas, coal, wood, and wood pellets. In hot water, hot air, and steam systems. I kind of like the pellet stove. It gives me something to putter with.

At the current time it looks like oil is going to go through the roof again and with it so will your LP price. You'll note that I used a $300/ton figure for the pellets which is $41/ton more than you found I did that to allow you not to have to haul and stack them if possible. I had 6 ton delivered last fall and the pallets were just placed where I wanted them in the garage. I didn't have to do a thing.

I currently have enough fuel on hand to get me into 2011 without any difficulty. When I finish brooding my peeps in May I'm going to bunker up for 2011-2012. I have enough room for slightly better than 5 years worth of pellets if needed.

 

[Mainely Saws]

Thanks for the reply & info SmokeyThe Bear .
I too , like having options & have no love for Lp , just looking for options over oil & electric heat . I'm quite happy burning wood but it doesn't cover every situation . I've heard there are hopper extensions for longer burn times for pellet stoves but I don't think I'd want to leave the house with the pellet stove going for a few days . My oil burner hot water furnace needed replacing years ago & the cost was in the $ 8000.00 range ( chimney needed to be lined ) so I just used my other chimney ( already lined ) for a wood stove & have been heating that way for a number of years along with a Rinnai Lp heater for when I wasn't around for a while . I'd love to get rid of the Lp & go with a pellet stove which is why I'm looking for info . I could put in a pellet stove & rely on electric baseboard heat for those times when I might need to leave the house for a week or two . I like your idea of having plenty of pellets on hand for a number of years to come but I don't have that much space available to me . I can store firewood under a 10 x 30 ft porch but that wouldn't do for pellets .
Thanks again for the input .....................

Bob

 

[Fsappo]

It seems to me you should go with LP gas. You already have a wood stove for "saving" on heating costs. A gas stove will run without electricity and as mentioned before, all but a few of the higher end pellet stoves still need to be attended at least once a day. Go LP and only use it when you CANT burn wood. That would be my suggestion

 

[Mainely Saws]

Franks , I'm inclined to agree with you , the Lp gives me more versatility , I have the wood stove to save as much as I can & with an Lp stove I could leave the house for a week & still keep the pipes from freezing plus some Lp stoves have a very nice flame to look at as well . Thanks for the input !!

Bob

 

[Fsappo]

Feel free to PM me if you want opinions on your purchase, or post here so others can chime in.

 

[Mainely Saws]

So far I'm looking at the Lopi Berkshire & the Jottul 600 .

 

[Bkins]

I will only mention that the pellet stove is WAY, WAY cleaner then any wood burner that I've ever used. The wood burner will heat your space but do it on a curve as it builds up heat from a fresh load of wood and then drops off as the wood burns down. A pellet stove would give you constant heat once turned on along with the ability, depending on the stove, to have it run off a thermostat. I would consider a wood stove even if the wood were free. I buned wood for almost 30 years before going to a pellet stove. Way less work and fuss. There is a mantenance componet that comes into play depending on the stove you buy. I would not buy a brand new stove based on the warranties that are offered. Make sure you read and understand what you are on the hook for before buying. The warranties really try to shift the main cost of fixing something onto the consumer. A really good stove shop is important but also very hard to find. Harman offers what looks like a very good warranty until you read what you are responsible for.

I know you are not asking about getting rid of your wood stove and want something as a added heat source. My guess is once you get a pellet stove you will slowly start using that more then the wood stove and all the related dirt. If you are married, your wife will love a pellet stove. I have no info on a LP stove nor do I know where the fuel prices are going or will end up.

Bkins

 

[Ladderlieu]

Not an easy question to answer due to all the variables. The vast majority of us on here use a pellet stove as our primary heat source rather than a supplemental heat source. We know we need to haul and/or stack pellets. We know all about the weekly and yearly cleanings. We know about breakdowns (some stoves are less prone than others). Many of us like to thumb our noses at the oil and gas companies. We invested, for the most part, a few thousand dollars for our stoves with the hope that the pay-back time is relatively short. Depending on the pellet prices AND the oil prices could change all that. If the price of oil goes up, payback is shortened. If pellets go up A LOT, payback time is stretched a bit.
The way I see it, if you're using it only to supplement your existing heat source your payback time is going to be very very long if you buy a new pellet stove, even when pellet prices now are relatively low. Like Smokey said, however, there are good deals to be had on sites such as Craigslist. If you picked up a good stove for $500 your payback time is MUCH shorter than if you spent $3000+.
I don't know what a gas heater costs, but the same principal applies. If gas is pretty cheap and you decide to use the gas heater a lot, payback time is shortened. If gas goes up (and it can go up quite a bit), you may use it much less which will greatly increase payback time. Perhaps there are used gas heaters out there at bargain prices? A lot for you to weigh in making that choice. Be thankful you've got the woodstove. Wood prices don't seem to change too much the way other fuels do.

 

[lmjr]

Thanks for the reply & info SmokeyThe Bear .
I too , like having options & have no love for Lp , just looking for options over oil & electric heat . I'm quite happy burning wood but it doesn't cover every situation . I've heard there are hopper extensions for longer burn times for pellet stoves but I don't think I'd want to leave the house with the pellet stove going for a few days . My oil burner hot water furnace needed replacing years ago & the cost was in the $ 8000.00 range ( chimney needed to be lined ) so I just used my other chimney ( already lined ) for a wood stove & have been heating that way for a number of years along with a Rinnai Lp heater for when I wasn't around for a while . I'd love to get rid of the Lp & go with a pellet stove which is why I'm looking for info . I could put in a pellet stove & rely on electric baseboard heat for those times when I might need to leave the house for a week or two . I like your idea of having plenty of pellets on hand for a number of years to come but I don't have that much space available to me . I can store firewood under a 10 x 30 ft porch but that wouldn't do for pellets .
Thanks again for the input .....................

Bob

Bob,

Was that oil-fired hot water furnace for more space than the 1000 sq. ft. mentioned?

Is it a boiler or forced air system?

Did the $8000. include the re-line job?

 

[lmjr]

Bob,

Use this to see return on investment...

Wood Pellet Comparison (40# of wood pellets = 1 Bag)
1 BAG OF WOOD PELLETS = 4.14 GALLONS OF LP GAS
1 BAG OF WOOD PELLETS = 2.5 GALLONS OF FUEL OIL
1 BAG OF WOOD PELLETS = 102 KILOWATT HOUR OF ELECTRICITY
1 BAG OF WOOD PELLETS = 3.48 C.C.F OF NATURAL GAS

 

[Mainely Saws]

Mater of smoke , the old furnace was a boiler with hot water radiators & the $8000.00 price for replacement included the cost of lining the chimney . The existing chimney that the boiler was on was just an interior brick chimney without any liner & could not be used for any purpose without a liner being installed according to local codes . Using your figures a 40# bag of pellets at $5.99 is a good bit cheaper than 4.14 gallons of LP at 2.50 per gallon or $10.35 . Qiute a contrast in cost & then the efficiency needs to be figured in . As a side note I had a new Lp hot air furnace installed for $3400.00 in another 1000 square ft. space last fall that is 95.6 % efficient & uses only PVC pipe for exhaust, but the hot air ducting was already in place . It sounds like I'm an LP fan & I'm really not but I'm guessing most of the pellet burning folks have an oil furnace, gas or electric system that once was a main source of heat & is now serving the role as back up to the pellet stove . Thanks for the input .........

 

[lmjr]

Bob,

Everyone here has posted a great wealth of info for you...use it to your best advantage.

Hope you get the heat you need.

Come back if you need any more info.

Cheers,
MOS

 

[Indiana]

I have a 500 gal. propane take in the yard. I use the propane for heat, hot water, dryer, and cooktop. Last year, 5/09-5/10, I used approx 1500 gal of propane @ $3.25 a gal. That's $4800. My last fillup was in May 2010. I just purchased a refurbished Timbers Ridge (Englander) Multi fuel pellet stove. I chose the multi fuel because of the abundance of shelled corn available in my area if wood pellets become in short supply. Last year I kept my 2400 sf colonial at 64 degrees and 62 at night because of the cost of propane. Now with my new pellet stove, I am keeping the house at 70 degrees. The current temps are 38 during the day and mid to low 20's at night and I'm going through a bag of pellets every 15-18 hours. I expect to save approx. $3500 plus per year. To top it off my house is 70 degrees.

 

[skidozer]

I have a similer size modern ranch ,well insulated and had been using propane.

The way its sold in my area I was being punished for only using 100gal propane per month while my coworkers who used the same company paid $1.25 per gal less because the used more. I was paying over $4 per gal 2 years ago.

I since have changed companys but wanted a alternative to propane and the price follows gasoline so it will be going up. I still think my used stove will pay for itself this winter over my propane price of $1.79.9 in sept.

 

[Skippydo]

My propane was costing me $3,000 a year.
this is my third year with a Harman PF100 furnace.
Cost of pellets to get through this heating season will be $1,000.
Plus love the heat.
Unit with all its costs will be paid off the end of this heating season.
But, I cannot figure what I did with the money that I saved, got a few
extra beers, I guess.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

My propane was costing me $3,000 a year.
this is my third year with a Harman PF100 furnace.
Cost of pellets to get through this heating season will be $1,000.
Plus love the heat.
Unit with all its costs will be paid off the end of this heating season.
But, I cannot figure what I did with the money that I saved, got a few
extra beers, I guess.

Likely food, gas prices, and local tax increases took a big chunk of it. Easy saved, long gone these days.

 

[perchin]

Ours paid for itself very quickly... Our first year in this ol farm house we paid for 5 tanks of LP. We then got our pellet stove and have been on the same tank of LP for our fourth year. I don't tend to my stove but once a week.

 

[Don2222]

Hello

I put in a Heat N Glow SL-550 zero clearance LP gas direct vent fireplace with the optional blower that turns on when the fireplace gets hot. It throws out pretty good heat but pales in comparison to the Avalon Astoria Wood Pellet Stove that can really bang some heat out! With the LP Tank rental and the soaring price of propane, I am sure glad I got the pellet stove. I paid $1.90 per gallon of propane over a year ago to fill the 100 gallon tank and will not see that price again! However since more wood pellet producing plants just came on line in the past year or two, the price of pellets have actually gone down!

——————————————————————————————————————————————————
So in my area.
1 bag of pellets is $4.18
2.5 gallons of oil is $2.85 x 2.5 = $7.13
3.75 gallons of propane is $2.79 x 3.75 = $10.46

Below is the equivalence and comparison chart for you to calculate the prices in your area.