Lungs and burning wood.

[jadm]

Notice that no matter how careful I am with door opening and scooping ashes I have more dust in my house. It is sooty ash. I am wondering from long time burners if this has any health impact on your lungs?

I have pretty sensitive lungs. Sometimes require a asthma inhailer when weather is cold or if I have a cold. This winter I notice my lungs a bit tighter and I wonder if it is due to the indoor 'pollution'/ dust from the fire.

 

[Vic99]

I am a new woodburner this year and have wondered this myself.

 

[webbie]

It all depends on how sensitive you are. In my opinion, there are two kinds of sensitivities.....

1. Real ones - meaning physical problems with anything but perfectly clean and filtered air.
2. Perceived and "annoyance" conditions, where someone may not like the smell or dust, and may enlarge the effect by concentrating on it.

Then there is the quality of the installation and how clean it is kept, etc. - a LOT of the dust and stuff which goes with wood burning is avoidable. Any heater within a house will stir up convection currents (moving air) which then carries any existing (and new) dust in the house.

Back to the exact subject, I think if you were to measure the actual indoor air pollution in a house with a properly installed and working stove, it would be extremely low in terms of what it showed on any meter. But, as you mention, different folks have different sensitivities. Having worked in trades like carpentry, demolition and metal working...I'm used to about anything. But I once had a lady walk in my store who was thrown into a total panic attack by the smell of the potpourris hanging on a display.

Perhaps an Ionizer or other HEPA type of air cleaner (or both) would take care of a lot of the problem.

If a customer with asthma came in my store, I would question them about things like their fireplace or BBQ before selling them an appliance. If things were bad, I'd probably suggest gas.

BTW, Pellets are not much better if someone is really sensitive. You still get some dust when scraping, loading pellets, etc.

 

[Vic99]

I guess I was wondering more about smoke from back puffing, not so much dust and ash . . . . clearly, though, that could be a piece of it.

 

[Beanscoot]

I use a short handle shovel or scoop, and carefully slide each scoop of ash into the pail which I hold as close to the stove as possible. I'll also place a section of newspaper on the stove top projecting out, to act as a hood to help divert the draft into the stove. I also burn a couple of pieces of paper in the stove just before emptying in an attempt to encourage a good draft to suck up the disturbed ash. The ashes don't bother me except for the dust they release into the house.

Using a section of newspaper to carefully funnel the air flow from the shovel and pail up into the stove opening can result in virtually all of the dusty air getting sucked into the stove.

 

[stonehouse]

Ash Flies. Nothing to be done about it. Stoves are Dirty. When you scoop and dump warm ashes, they fly up from the heat.
I suspect the particles are messing with you way more then the smoke. This is my first time burning.
Good luck.

 

[DiscoInferno]

Biggest problem I have is that ashes fall down and get sucked in by the blower and then blown back out the top vent. I'm too lazy to turn it off each time I open the door.

 

[Heat Miser]

I get more dust during the burning season, but it's not extreme. I suspect particulate wise that the spring pollen season is far worse in terms of airborne contaminants. My nose is very sensitive to strong smells and pollution and it never bothers me with the wood stove burning.

I run my stove 24/7 and reload it about every 8-10 hours. This involves opening the top and dropping wood into the firebox which takes a minute or two. I can't imagine it generating that much pollution although sometimes I can smell a little smoke in the house from time to time (which smells good to me BTW). I empty the ash pan every few days but that's a fairly clean process. Overall I don't know how much interior pollution is generated by the stove, but it seems to me that the amount of time I'm fiddling with it that it would be rather small. I probably get more pollution from vacuuming (EDIT: The house and not ashes!) and opening and closing the doors to the house.

 

[colsmith]

We definitely get ash around the hearth and under the stove and so on, and sometimes I can tell that it settles on nearby things in a fine film. So I am sure we are breathing some of it. Hubby has very sensitive sinuses, lots of allergies and things. The interesting thing is that burning wood to heat our house seems to be better for his sinuses. I attribute this to the fact that the warm air flows naturally around the house from the stove instead of being sent from the furnace through all the ductwork in the house. Our house is 38 years old, and although we had the ducts cleaned about 4 years ago, I am sure there is residual mold and dust and crud in them. There was once a fire in the house (thanks, mom), water, smoke, etc. so I am sure the ducts have some residue from that. Once the house is shut up for the winter (windows all locked up tight and so on) he has always had breathing problems related to the air being blown around the house. He has LESS problems with the wood stove heating our house. We are quite relieved about this! Might also help that we humidify the house now with pots of water on and near the stove.

P.S. Don't vacuum hot ashes, hubby did that accidentally last week and part of the wet-dry vac filter burned in 3 spots.

 

[Heat Miser]

The interesting thing is that burning wood to heat our house seems to be better for his sinuses.

I think I agree with you. Our house has no central air like our old home and I believe that it feels more comfortable to me and my sinuses. I looked in our old ducts once and it was a mess. Full of dust and musty smells. My wood stove just smells like burned wood and there is no way mold can grow inside of it.

P.S. Don't vacuum hot ashes, hubby did that accidentally last week and part of the wet-dry vac filter burned in 3 spots.

I edited my post. I meant that general vacuuming around the home probably stirs up much more dust and contaminants than the wood stove by itself does. I never use my vacuum near my stove unless it is very cold. Even then, I never use my vacuum to clean out the interior of the stove/ashes unless it is the middle of summer and it hasn't been burned for a long time.

I had heard once from a firefighter that they get many house fires as a result of people vacuuming ashes with machines not designed for the purpose. The ashes will sit in the bag and smolder once you put the machine away and then go up in flames as it burns the contents of the bag (usually when you are not around). Dangerous stuff....

 

[jadm]

Thanks so much for everyones' input. My lungs get tempermental sometimes and gathering info. helps me minimize this. Sometimes there is no solution and the problem takes care of itself with nothing done on my part. Other times I can make changes and they do help.

With wood burning this year I was fine and about a month ago my lungs began to get tight. My 'creative' and 'active' mind always want to place the blame on something I can manage/control. So I pick on wood burning totally neglecting the outside air which, on some days this time of year here -Denver metro area- is a thick brown haze. I can't control that..

I do try to minimize smoke and ash entering the room when I open the door of my insert. When scooping ash out the newspaper idea sounds good - one solution I haven't heard before. I just usually try to keep can close to door and close lid after each shovel full of ash. When my husband empties it he doesn't care and ash goes every where so I stay clear until it has settled. He gets up first here so usually starts up the fire so I don't mind the ash because I get a nice warm room when I do get up.

Just wanted to check out if the ash/dust can cause problems down the road for me or for my children. Seems like it is a more natural substance for our bodies to deal with.

 

[crazy_dan]

I don't believe that their are any down the road effects of wood ash on health from normal contact. If you are snorting it like cocain then maybe.

 

[woodconvert]

Back to the exact subject, I think if you were to measure the actual indoor air pollution in a house with a properly installed and working stove, it would be extremely low in terms of what it showed on any meter. But, as you mention, different folks have different sensitivities. Having worked in trades like carpentry, demolition and metal working...I'm used to about anything. But I once had a lady walk in my store who was thrown into a total panic attack by the smell of the potpourris hanging on a display.

Perhaps an Ionizer or other HEPA type of air cleaner (or both) would take care of a lot of the problem.

I have an Uncle that has a metal shop he's put together. In there he does a lot of machining, welding, grinding, painting and runs sooty acetylene torches all the time. He installed two air cleaners (I don't know exactly what they are but I can find out) and I tell you what...the place has a noticeably different air quality inside than outside. On top of that you cannot smell residue of any chemicals or any of the processes i've listed above. They really work.

Something else that may help when working directly with or around the stove is a face mask/ respirator. They come in all shapes and sizes..you can get whatever you need. It'd be worth a try for not a lot of money.

 

[downeast]

Be sure that your flue is pulling when opening the stove. Open the damper if one, and the air control fully open BEFORE
loading or cleaning. Sometimes on low pressure days, shove a lit wad of paper in the flue to warm the chimney.
A good flue will pull most loose ash up the chimney when cleaning or loading

 

[Eric Johnson]

If you are sensitive but still want to burn wood, I would suggest using a shop vac with the special filter when you clean the ashes or sweep up around the stove. If you wear a dust mask and have someone hold the vacuum hose over the area being disturbed, you'll cut the amount of residual dust considerably. Like many things, you can do it, but it just requires more work and forethought.

 

[velvetfoot]

I would echo downeast's comment that if there is a draft going, the dust has a tendency to go up the flue.

 

[Wolves-Lower]

As soon as I quit smoking two packs of cigarettes a day, hanging out at the pub every other night I will do a study.

 

[Highbeam]

Also be sure to consider the effects of very low humidity air in the home during woodburning season. My RH meter goes from the upper 60s to the mid 20% range in the stove room. Dry dry air can do some funky things to your sinuses and throat.

We only get the white dry ash dust on and around the stove as a result of wood heat. When emptying the hot ashes they rise by themselves out of the bucket nomatter how careful I am to minimize stirring them up. I usually wait until I can get a good 2/3 of a bucket full so the intervals between dustings is small.

No smoke in the house, just the white dust and dry air.

 

[Metal]

Here is a link to an MSDS for Wood Ash:

http://www.internationalpaper.com/PDF/PDFs_for_IPWood/msds/MSDS_Info_Wood_Ash.pdf

Don't let Burning Issues get a hold of it ; )

 

[jadm]

Thanks again everybody for the input.

I do think my occasional problems with my lungs has more to do with outside air than what's in my house. You all seem to confirm that.

I already do use a face mask when working around the stove and it does get dirty!

The ash is mainly in the area we burn and doesn't travel much to the back of the house.

I'll be more careful with opening the door up!

 

[jadm]

Metal - Read the MSDS article and could feel the air being sucked right out of my lungs every time I read 'causes respiratory problems'. That phrase came up over and over again...Just what my over active imagination needs right before I go to bed!

Couldn't help but wonder what an article like that would list for the outside air I breathe here in Denver on an average high pollution day.

Thinking I should just give up breathing altogether. Simply hold my breath.

Found old topics along this same vein and it became apparent that smoke is the issue not the dust. My house is smoke free unless I get the occasional backdraft when the flue isn't warmed up.

Maybe I can get my husband to do the dusting....

Oh well.

This forum is such a gold mine. I am so happy I found it (Can't remember HOW I found it...) Thanks to everyone who has contributed over the years. I may stay befuddled and never switch out my insert, which is the reason I went searching for info in the first place, but at least I will know a whole lot more about wood etc,etc.

 

[bbc557ci]

Last year I was at a house where a fire occurred (not from a wood burner). Next to the wood stove was what looked like a small shop vac, except it was metal, like polished aluminum or maybe chrome. Anyways, I asked the home owner about it and she said the vac was for vacuuming around the wood burner. Now I don't know if she meant it was designed spacifically for use around a wood burner. But that's the way I understood it.

If there is a vacuum designed for use around a wood stove or insert, and the vac has a good filtration system, that might be something to consider. Might generate less dust/ash than using a brush and dust pan.

 

[EddyKilowatt]

I've used three or four different kinds of heaters over 30 years of wood-burning and have always noticed that thin film of ash that builds up on things in the stove room, plus the faint aroma of woodsmoke that is often noticeable when wood heat is in use. No doubt in my mind that we're being exposed to low levels of wood by-products during heating season.

BUT, my thinking has always been that humans have been using wood fires for what, 50,000 years or more, and any genes that might make us vulnerable to low level wood byproducts have already long been eliminated from the gene pool. Contrast that with coal, oil, the stuff that oozes or outgasses from new plastic items, and all the multi-syllable stuff they put in food these days... and I pretty much decided I was happy to take my chances with wood smoke (at low levels) and some ash.

I don't have especially sensitive lungs, though, so I can't speak to that. Folks who have allergy-type problems or other immune system responses to dust, pollen, and mold should in principle have less trouble with ash since the organics are pretty well burned out of it. But ash itself is certainly chemically active, and it doesn't take organics to cause respiratory problems such as silicosis.

Eddy

 

[Martin Strand III]

Perplexed:

Most danced around your question.

Try this on.

When wood burns completely, the chemical reaction results in light, heat, carbon dioxide and water. Problem: wood does not burn completely, especially in a wood stove. When it does not burn completely, wood gives off smoke - a known pollutant with known adverse health effects.

Pollutants in smoke:

1. Carbon Monoxide (CO) - a known toxin which binds to hemoglobin in your blood some 200+ times faster than oxygen. Get enough and it kills you (everyone who burns in their home should have a good CO detector). Lower levels cause long term health problems.

2. Volatile Organic Compounds (VOCs) - one of the components in sunlight which forms smog (ozone) which has known adverse effects on the lungs and makes breathing difficult. It also helps form fine particles in the atmosphere (see below).

3. Oxides of Nitrogen (NOx) - impairs the lungs and inhibits them to fight infection. It combines with VOCs to form smog and with water in the air to form acid rain.

4. Toxic Pollutants - cancer causing substances (formaldehyde, benzene, others).

5. Particulate Matter less than 10 microns in diameter (PM10 - smaller than a human hair) - condensed unburned organic vapors forming small droplets of wood tar and gases. At this size, they can be inhaled into the lungs which aggravates many respiratory conditions. Worse and especially harmful, even smaller particles (PM2.5) can enter the blood stream via the lungs contributing to lung disease including cancer.

So, if you burn in an open fireplace or an older leaky wood stove, you have a good chance you are exposing yourself, your family and many others outside (neighbors, your community) to these noxious and harmful agents.

The good news is that they can be greatly minimized by burning dry wood in hot fires in EPA modern approved wood stoves.

Read more here - Ref:
www.baaqmd.gov
www.sparetheair.org

Hope this helps.

Aye, Marty

 

[Metal]

If there is a vacuum designed for use around a wood stove or insert, and the vac has a good filtration system, that might be something to consider. Might generate less dust/ash than using a brush and dust pan.

Just Google "Ash Vac" and you will get a large number of places to buy them.