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Makes me mad and a little sad

Post in 'The Boiler Room - Wood Boilers and Furnaces' started by heaterman, Mar 14, 2013.

  1. heaterman

    heaterman Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2007
    Messages:
    3,038
    Loc:
    Falmouth, Michigan
    http://www.forgreenheat.org/blog.html

    Read the blog article listed on the sidebar that says "outdoor boilers cleaner than wood stoves". Pay attention to the second paragraph.

    This refusal to admit things could maybe be better and clinging to technology that doesn't work is exactly what will possibly eliminate the option of burning wood for all of us. I would urge everyone here to get involved in some of the debates going on around the country and encourage all manufacturers to raise the performance bar on their boilers.I would also encourage all of you to take a minute and write your congress person to see what legislation is pending in your state. Get involved. Educate yourself on the issues and take action toward the goal of making wood burning viable part of the energy solution in the future. We ignore stuff like this at our own peril.

    I'll just post it here in case you can't find it but the entire article is a must read if you want
    to know what is going on with regulations. Hint....most of it has nothing to do with clean air or low emission levels....


    The lead Utah resident pushing for regulations that would allow outdoor boilers, Daniel Leavitt, represented himself as a concerned citizen to the Utah Air Quality Board, and the Utah paper refers to him as a resident who operates his outdoor wood boiler to heat his home. But what the paper didn't mention is that Leavitt is also a prominent Utah lawyer specializing in government relations and the brother of the former Governor of Utah. What's more is that Leavitt is being paid by Central Boiler, the boiler manufacturer leading the campaign.
    Taylor Sutherland and Prof like this.

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  2. bigburner

    bigburner Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    Messages:
    438
    Nothing common sense happens in government. Nothing. I believe in the foot in the door, give any room for regulation and they will pile on more. I would be interested in hearing a common sense position on OWB, but even if they ban them in every state, who do you think they are coming for next. Got to stand united or the whole industry will fall. Pretty sure we don't agree on this one heaterman.
    Taylor Sutherland likes this.
  3. heaterman

    heaterman Minister of Fire

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    Loc:
    Falmouth, Michigan
    No, I'm pretty sure we do. I'm not for banning anything. At all.

    What I would like to see is the industry get behind the proven concepts and methods of burning wood cleanly instead of trying to cling to old methods that are not efficient and dirty. What i would like to see is for the user base to get with the program and start adopting best practices as far as seasoning and regard for neighbors.
    If we had those 3 things addressed 95% of our problems would go away. These regs are being driven by people complaining because they are getting smoked out of their houses. Every legislator I have talked to has said that. period. The EPA would not even be in the game unless they had received complaints.

    Backing up to the top, there is no way to make a boiler with a hugely oversized firebox, filled with smoldering wood, burn cleanly. No way. It is a physical impossibility. The basic concept of operation for all OWB's, of all types is a huge amount of wood that is cycled on/off as heat demand dictates.This can never be efficient and clean. The industry has to stop making boilers of this type and start bringing products to consumers that are clean and efficient even if it means reversing what they have been saying for 20 years. They have made this problem and brought it on themselves and it ticks me off that rather than address it correctly they just try and influence legislation so they can stay with something they feel they can make more money on. That is after all the bottom line for the manufacturers. If they felt they could make more money on a cleaner stove they would be pushing it don't you think?
  4. First they came for the burn piles of trash
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't pile of trash burner.
    Then they came for the pre epa wood stoves
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a pre epa woodstove burner.
    Then they came for the owb's,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a owb burner.
    Then they came for my gassification boiler,
    and there was no one left to speak for me.​
    711mhw and arngnick like this.
  5. maple1

    maple1 Minister of Fire

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    3,955
    Loc:
    Nova Scotia
    I emailed one of the manufacturers in my area a few years ago (before I knew about gassification), asking if they had plans to improve their tech or maybe even employ a forced draft fan at least. They responded with (paraphrasing) 'why would we want to add on more gizmos just to blow the ashes around'? I pretty well knew then that my future heat source wouldn't be a locally made one.
  6. fuelfarmer

    fuelfarmer Burning Hunk

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2010
    Messages:
    112
    Loc:
    VA
    I am running a wood chip burner that burns clean. Wood chips or pellets will be the next step in clean wood burning. As usual that will come with added cost and ...............................
  7. arngnick

    arngnick Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2013
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    244
    Loc:
    Mansfield, PA
    This type of regulation is why so many CLEAN burning gasification boilers come from overseas! I know in Sweden the only way they can meet their regulations is by burning all the fuel at once meaning no idling at all. I believe this is the reason my boiler does not have the capability to idle. I love my current wood boiler but certain types of burners have given wood burning as a whole a bad name.

    I am not for taking anything away from anyone...I just ask that some people be considerate of your neighbors. This is AMERICA home of the free...own whatever you want BUT don't be an A**hole.
  8. tmudd

    tmudd Member

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    Loc:
    Central Missouri Ranch
    Your point is well taken Heaterman. Politics start at the local level. Nothing is more disheartening than people who bash the goverment while sitting on the sidelines. If you want a good govement, get involved. Let your views be known and back them up with real science. The "they tell me information syndrom" is the nemisis of misinformation. good communities and govement starts at the township level, then county and so on. If people dont like the way the goverment governs they can assume some of the blame for their inactivity. Goverment makes regulation and recommendations on the input that they recieve from there constituents.
    Anyone that has invested in a gassifier can appreciate the leap in technology that we have reached with wood burning appliances. Spread the word boiler mates!
    TLM
    heaterman likes this.
  9. BoilerMan

    BoilerMan Minister of Fire

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    Northern Maine
    Very well said tmudd! We need to get involved or we end up run over by Big Gov't and massive amounts of misinformation, all hyperized by the media.

    TS
  10. OT_Ducati

    OT_Ducati Member

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    Dec 31, 2011
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    Loc:
    Maine
    This is why you should get involved.
  11. BoilerMan

    BoilerMan Minister of Fire

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    1,571
    Loc:
    Northern Maine
    I am involved in local gov't, not just outspoken about it on here....... follow the money, is my motto as well, but I sure don't have any LOL

    TS
  12. heaterman

    heaterman Minister of Fire

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    You are preaching to a choir member here tmudd. I was elected clerk of our township in 1996 and ran unopposed again this past fall. (Should tell you more about how many want the job rather than how much political clout I have....) I've been on the township association board of directors since 2004 and president of our county association since 2008.
    My dad was involved in practically any community type project that came along from starting our fire department in the 70's, to getting private telephone lines run into town, to sitting on a Dpt of Transportation committee about expressway routing through Northern Michigan. I guess I come by it honestly.

    One of the many bits of wisdom that he left me with was this little blurb, which I have heard since in many forms from many people.
    It is simply this.

    "The world is run by those who show up".

    In other words, if you don;t like how something is going, get involved and do something about it rather than just sitting there and whining about it while it happens.

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