Might be buying a house, need advice

[drewmo]

My wife and I have a house under contract and are doing the necessary due diligence. All looks good until we start asking about the furnace/boiler system in place. At the end of this post, I have some thoughts on what we could do and would really like your thoughts. But first, here's what we know about the heat source so far:

- There is a 30+ year old combo oil/wood, forced hot air furnace in the basement that heats the 1st and 2nd floor.
- Next to the combo unit there is an older (15-20 year old) oil fed coil boiler that baseboard heats the 3rd floor and a 1st floor addition. The current tenants don't use this much because they don't have access to the 3rd floor per lease agreement and there is a pellet stove in the addition.
- A new, as of 2011, electric water heater is the primary DHW source.

My concerns with the existing system focus on whether it is up to code and if it will allow us to be insured. I have not been able to identify the make of the oil/wood combo and the stand-alone oil boiler is obviously inefficient and on it's last leg. The house has three floors plus basement and is about 3,000 sf. Aside from some older windows, it is relatively well insulated. More can be done in the basement and with the windows, but that's about it. Although we have not been able to verify this, it appears both the oil/wood furnace and oil boiler exhaust through the same flue, which is likely against code here in Maine. (Does anyone know if a combo oil/wood burner is allowed to exhaust through one flue?)

Although probably not the most efficient set up by today's standards, I think our lifestyle could coexist with this set up. However, if we need to make changes to meet code to get insured, this is what I'm thinking we could do.

- Remove existing oil/wood furnace combo, oil boiler and electric HW tank
- Install a wood stove in the basement directing as much heat up through the existing duct work to heat the 1st and 2nd floors, and 3rd floor by natural convection
- Install a high efficiency boiler (gas, oil, ????) to provide heat to the baseboards on the 1st & 3rd floors when needed as well to provide DHW. Could this be done with a pellet boiler?

What I don't like about this set up is that if we were to have an extended absence from home during the winter months, there is no automated way to keep the house warm unless we were to use some form of electric heat.

I know I've covered a lot in this post and I'm happy to answer any questions. If we can live with the existing system in the short-term we will. But, if we have to invest in a new system, what should it be? In no particular order, we want to be efficient, inexpensive and warm. Everyone's dream, right?

 

[jebatty]

My concerns with the existing system focus on whether it is up to code and if it will allow us to be insured.

It would be a good idea to hire an inspector with appropriate experience to answer these questions, and/or talk to your insurance company for an inspector it would recommend. I don't know if anyone from a distance can answer these questions.

 

[DaveBP]

I"ll see Jim's recommendation and raise him one.

I would hire a building inspector, but not one the bank or sales agent recommends to you. Get an independent one who works for you.

 

[flyingcow]

Raise one more. Hire a heating guy to look over the system. Sounds like you might have a hodge podge type of system. While he's at it, look over the plumbing. Better to have the surprises now than after you buy it.

 

[EffectaBoilerUser (USA)]

Having been a home inspector for almost 5 years in the state of Michigan I would highly recommend a high end home inspector and/or a top notch HVAC man to look at you current heating system(s) in detail.

Without seeing it first hand and without knowing the mechanical codes for the area in which you live it is very difficult to make accurate suggestions on hearth.com.

Having said this, I would say with good confidence (but not a guarantee) that you cannot have more than one type of boiler system being vented into the same chimney (in my house I have a propane fired furnace- which I no longer use - and propane fired hot water heater using one common vent). However, it is against code to have different types of heating systems/water heaters venting into the same vent.

Your options for heating systems look appropriate. I would like to point out that although nearly 100% efficient, electric heating systems are very expensive to operate due to the relative high cost of electricity.

Finally, I would like to mention that effecta offers (with both its 35kw and 60 kw boiler models) an option of a 90+ efficient pellet burner attached to the side of the wood boiler. Although not an "instant start when the wood fire goes out type of system", this type of setup will allow users to change their effecta boiler from wood to pellets within 5-10 minutes and also allows you to use the existing water storage found in all effecta lambda wood boiler systems. It is also ideal for the person who wants to heat with wood now but may want to change to much less laborious pellets at a future time in ones life.

I have attached a photo of this wood/pellet combo for everyone to see.

Thanks,

Brian

 

[mikefrommaine]

Until 1998 Maine allowed two appliances to be vented into a single flue. Most installs are grandfathered.

If it was me I'd consider keeping the oil burner as backup and install a new flue for a wood boiler. If not possible then consider power venting the oil boiler.

Trying to heat a house with a basement wood stove never works great. And using a forced air duct hood over a woodstove is dangerous and not something insurance companies would like to see.

http://www.dailybulldog.com/db/happenings/attention-homeowners-new-chimney-rules-in-effect/

 

[drewmo]

I knew this would be a difficult question to answer considering the unknowns involved, so I really appreciate your comments. We did have an inspector look at the house. He doesn't have any issue with with the set up, including the oil/wood combo furnace, he just questions the efficiency of it. I found this out today after having a lengthy conversation with him, the first I've had since the inspection. The stand alone oil boiler is running at an 85.6% efficiency which seems to be great considering it's age. Unfortunately, when he inspected the home, if was the one day this year we had snow in Maine and he couldn't get to the roof to look at the chimney to see if there are separate flues.

Mike - you're right about the 1998 grandfather clause. I found this statue which appears to have been adopted by the legislature in 2005: Title 25, Section 2465 Looks like we're OK, although it states, "The chimney is lined and structurally intact." Not sure if the chimney is lined, which is defined as "A lined chimney is one whose flue has a clay or tile lining or a metal insert." I don't have measurements of the chimney, but estimate to line it would cost in the $2K to $3K range - does this sound about right?

Ideally, we'd like to keep the system the way it is, possibly replacing the electric hot water heater to something more efficient. If we have to change the system for whatever reason, it looks like we have some options, although oil-based, that would cost us less than $5K.

 

[Yankee]

As has been mentioned, the setup is 'grandfathered' as far as the state code is concerned. Also, a manufactured combination furnace would meet code if it is vented through one flue on the appliance. The more important questions are the number of flues you have, and the condition of the flue(s). It would be pretty simple to determine the number of flues based on the size of the outside of the chimney. Also, is there a cleanout in the flue? If not, there will need to be one installed. A build up of debris (creosote) at the bottom of the chimney is DANGEROUS. Went to a chimney fire in a chimney that had not been cleaned out in many years. The fire was not above the stove, but below it in the junk build up. (It was up to the floor level and the structure was burning.)
The other primary issue is insurability. There is currently only one insurance company (that I know of) in Maine that will knowingly insure mixed appliances in one flue, no matter what the installation date.