modified Eng 25 burnpot

[vvvv]

burns at 1/9 setting. flame is directed to front of burnpot & any air coming thru burnplate has to mix with flame, hopefully. underside of coverplate has no creosote deposited on it

 

[dac122]

burns at 1/9 setting. flame is directed to front of burnpot & any air coming thru burnplate has to mix with flame, hopefully. underside of coverplate has no creosote deposited on it

I am intrigued but cannot see clearly what you have done. Can you provide a better description and better closeup?

 

[vvvv]

fire has to come out the front & mix with any air from burnpot. fire near glass so glass gets hotter vs backplate. glass was crcked be4 this setup & furnace cement is staying on glass

 

[dac122]

So it looks like you simply added a plate over top your burn pot with an opening in the front? Am I seeing that correct?

Curious, what problem are you trying to solve?

 

[vvvv]

So it looks like you simply added a plate over top your burn pot with an opening in the front? Am I seeing that correct?

Curious, what problem are you trying to solve?

plate on top & in front. low burn results in small pile of pellets burning near the auger, burnplate has holes all the way to the front. toplate forces the flame to the front where any air from burnplate will have to mix with the flame.glass gets hotter so it radiaTES MORE HEAT. other changes allow stove to run more radiant & room blower rarely comes on.

 

[dac122]

So in essence you are trying to channel the flame over the bank of unburned pellets/ash to gain a more efficient burn. Is that correct?

Any idea how much hotter the glass is?

 

[stoveguy2esw]

So it looks like you simply added a plate over top your burn pot with an opening in the front? Am I seeing that correct?

Curious, what problem are you trying to solve?

plate on top & in front. low burn results in small pile of pellets burning near the auger, burnplate has holes all the way to the front. toplate forces the flame to the front where any air from burnplate will have to mix with the flame.glass gets hotter so it radiaTES MORE HEAT. other changes allow stove to run more radiant & room blower rarely comes on.

by enclosing the flame you will radiate more heat into the enclosure but this would lessen the radience getting to the outer hull of the stove. BTW the added baffling you added to the heat exchanger may well cause issues with the steel there as well as taxing the exhaust blower more than normal configuration would.

 

[vvvv]

So it looks like you simply added a plate over top your burn pot with an opening in the front? Am I seeing that correct?

Curious, what problem are you trying to solve?

plate on top & in front. low burn results in small pile of pellets burning near the auger, burnplate has holes all the way to the front. toplate forces the flame to the front where any air from burnplate will have to mix with the flame.glass gets hotter so it radiaTES MORE HEAT. other changes allow stove to run more radiant & room blower rarely comes on.

by enclosing the flame you will radiate more heat into the enclosure but this would lessen the radience getting to the outer hull of the stove. BTW the added baffling you added to the heat exchanger may well cause issues with the steel there as well as taxing the exhaust blower more than normal configuration would.

steel coverplate saves the backplate from flamewear. dont see how baffling can hurt stove as it evens out the [l r] temp on top of stove.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

the more baffling ,, the more resistance to flow , the slower the air moves, the slower the air moves the less active the fire not to mention with slower exhaust velocity the exhaust temps will rise and if the exhaust blower gets above 475F it will shut off due to thermal impedance protection in the blower

 

[vvvv]

the more baffling ,, the more resistance to flow , the slower the air moves, the slower the air moves the less active the fire not to mention with slower exhaust velocity the exhaust temps will rise and if the exhaust blower gets above 475F it will shut off due to thermal impedance protection in the blower

this is startup fire. i read exhaust temp with IR gun off 2' singlewall black pipe, fan blows on pipe from rear. temp @ blower stays below 160*f, 180*f where the fan cant blow-----burning @ 1/9 burn rate . room blower rarely comes on [set on 9] .

 

[MCPO]

Pook, Please tell me there are no kids living at your house . Other than you of course.

 

[vvvv]

not now, ones from the past didnt care for applied science.....that is unless they have a prob & then i get a call

 

[vvvv]

the more baffling ,, the more resistance to flow , the slower the air moves, the slower the air moves the less active the fire not to mention with slower exhaust velocity the exhaust temps will rise and if the exhaust blower gets above 475F it will shut off due to thermal impedance protection in the blower

biggest constrictor to airflow is the area of the holes in the burnplate.
hot zone created by burnpot enclosure makes incoming pellets gassifying faster resulting in a smoother burn.
embers shooting out the front @ glass hit the metal lip above the door & fall into firebox instead of getting pulled by the exhaust & flying outside. sawdust burn provided quite the ember fireworks on stoveglass but no embers flew outside which are quite visible when dark.
look @ the "combex" patented system for a pellet stove. It promotes the pressurization of the inner stove so to enhance heat transference like a pressure cooker?

 

[MCPO]

I bet Englander wishes they had you on their R&D team.

 

[jtakeman]

I bet Englander wishes they had you on their R&D team.

Some how, I thinx Not! Mike H. would be driven to insanity! :-S

 

[vvvv]

this setup should result in more ash in the stove & less ash in the exhaust blower & pipe

 

[dac122]

this setup should result in more ash in the stove & less ash in the exhaust blower & pipe

vvv,

Did you also allude to the fact that you will have less ash buildup in the burn post? Less scraping is good.

Appreciate the posting on your tests, but I think a comparison from baseline temps from all the key spots is needed to fully access this mod and address Mike's concerns.

Mike,

I am wondering if Englander has ever considered an upgraded burn pot for these stoves? I might pay for that. If I had a self-cleaning burn pot and board that would auto-start I would fall in love with my Englander all over again.

BTW, Mike, I bet you have a legion of volunteers that would submit to supervised field testing. When I worked for Carrier UTC you could volunteer for field testing on their prototypes. It made a huge difference in product quality. If you ever do, count me in.

 

[vvvv]

this setup should result in more ash in the stove & less ash in the exhaust blower & pipe

vvv,

Did you also allude to the fact that you will have less ash buildup in the burn post? Less scraping is good.

Appreciate the posting on your tests, but I think a comparison from baseline temps from all the key spots is needed to fully access this mod and address Mike's concerns.

Mike,

I am wondering if Englander has ever considered an upgraded burn pot for these stoves? I might pay for that. If I had a self-cleaning burn pot and board that would auto-start I would fall in love with my Englander all over again.

BTW, Mike, I bet you have a legion of volunteers that would submit to supervised field testing. When I worked for Carrier UTC you could volunteer for field testing on their prototypes. It made a huge difference in product quality. If you ever do, count me in.

this morning, i put coverplate on while there was still sawdust on the front of the burnpot & lotta embers shot out, bounced off the glass. i looked out the window at the end of the horizontal only vent & no embers were coming out of pipe! embers were hitting the metal lip [airwash?] above the door & getting blocked.sawdust now gone, embers stop, & stove is running on low.
constriction? air comes from 2” intake & goes thru burnplate,eh? do the math for the area of the holes which the air can flow thru in the burnplate & then compare to area on front of coverplate & then the area of the unblocked exhaust port…. which has the most constriction?
constriction of baffleplate results in compression of heat within stove by increased pressure? now guess how a pressure cooker works.
kids never liked applied science but sure knew how to work the nintendo! thanx 4 the frankenstein comparisons, villagers…...........straight sawdust will jam the auger, its mill sawdust with different sizes of stuff...........from my other post

 

[vvvv]

blimp! just installed light dimmer on exhaust blower [which is bigger than original]. after cleaning the stove today, the relocated temp sensor [atop exhaust blower] kept telling the room blower to come on probly due to insulative ash having been removed from cleaning. with less combustion air should allow for a lower pellet feed & should keep the fire going.........stochiometric ideal for wood is ~8-1......anything higher is inefficient.......ask Europa

 

[jtakeman]

blimp! just installed light dimmer on exhaust blower [which is bigger than original]. after cleaning the stove today, the relocated temp sensor [atop exhaust blower] kept telling the room blower to come on probly due to insulative ash having been removed from cleaning. with less combustion air should allow for a lower pellet feed & should keep the fire going.........stochiometric ideal for wood is ~8-1......anything higher is inefficient.......ask Europa

Ok, But with the Europa there heating the fuel to produce wood gas then burning the gas. I can see where less air might be required to produce the wood gas. Your Englander was meant to burn the fuel. Reducing the air flow may keep more heat in the stove and not out the vent. But at what cost. Rich burn would be high on my list(lack of proper combustion air). Of coarse I am thinking pellets and not saw dust/planner chips.

Do you have a video camera to post a vid for us of the burn? Like to see a short vid anyway.

If the Europa is what your trying to mimic from the Englader, Why not just plunk down the cash for the real deal?

 

[vvvv]

blimp! just installed light dimmer on exhaust blower [which is bigger than original]. after cleaning the stove today, the relocated temp sensor [atop exhaust blower] kept telling the room blower to come on probly due to insulative ash having been removed from cleaning. with less combustion air should allow for a lower pellet feed & should keep the fire going.........stochiometric ideal for wood is ~8-1......anything higher is inefficient.......ask Europa

Ok, But with the Europa there heating the fuel to produce wood gas then burning the gas. I can see where less air might be required to produce the wood gas. Your Englander was meant to burn the fuel. Reducing the air flow may keep more heat in the stove and not out the vent. But at what cost. Rich burn would be high on my list(lack of proper combustion air). Of coarse I am thinking pellets and not saw dust/planner chips.

Do you have a video camera to post a vid for us of the burn? Like to see a short vid anyway.

If the Europa is what your trying to mimic from the Englader, Why not just plunk down the cash for the real deal?

loan me the money, honey! burnpot is firing onto the glass per design, creosote on glass should tell a story of how efficiently it burns with less air + i can insulate the coverplate if needed with kwool i have.

 

[jtakeman]

blimp! just installed light dimmer on exhaust blower [which is bigger than original]. after cleaning the stove today, the relocated temp sensor [atop exhaust blower] kept telling the room blower to come on probly due to insulative ash having been removed from cleaning. with less combustion air should allow for a lower pellet feed & should keep the fire going.........stochiometric ideal for wood is ~8-1......anything higher is inefficient.......ask Europa

Ok, But with the Europa there heating the fuel to produce wood gas then burning the gas. I can see where less air might be required to produce the wood gas. Your Englander was meant to burn the fuel. Reducing the air flow may keep more heat in the stove and not out the vent. But at what cost. Rich burn would be high on my list(lack of proper combustion air). Of coarse I am thinking pellets and not saw dust/planner chips.

Do you have a video camera to post a vid for us of the burn? Like to see a short vid anyway.

If the Europa is what your trying to mimic from the Englader, Why not just plunk down the cash for the real deal?

loan me the money, honey! burnpot is firing onto the glass per design, creosote on glass should tell a story of how efficiently it burns with less air + i can insulate the coverplate if needed with kwool i have.

My digi can do low res vid, Maybe yours too?

I and another have asked if you monitor the temps before and after. Have you seen any differece in exhaust temps?

 

[vvvv]

blimp! just installed light dimmer on exhaust blower [which is bigger than original]. after cleaning the stove today, the relocated temp sensor [atop exhaust blower] kept telling the room blower to come on probly due to insulative ash having been removed from cleaning. with less combustion air should allow for a lower pellet feed & should keep the fire going.........stochiometric ideal for wood is ~8-1......anything higher is inefficient.......ask Europa

Ok, But with the Europa there heating the fuel to produce wood gas then burning the gas. I can see where less air might be required to produce the wood gas. Your Englander was meant to burn the fuel. Reducing the air flow may keep more heat in the stove and not out the vent. But at what cost. Rich burn would be high on my list(lack of proper combustion air). Of coarse I am thinking pellets and not saw dust/planner chips.

Do you have a video camera to post a vid for us of the burn? Like to see a short vid anyway.

If the Europa is what your trying to mimic from the Englader, Why not just plunk down the cash for the real deal?

loan me the money, honey! burnpot is firing onto the glass per design, creosote on glass should tell a story of how efficiently it burns with less air + i can insulate the coverplate if needed with kwool i have.

My digi can do low res vid, Maybe yours too?

I and another have asked if you monitor the temps before and after. Have you seen any differece in exhaust temps?

hassle! i had today removing the baffle & replacing. my exhaust pipe temp went down below 140*f with ir gun on singlewall pipe & the room blower kept blowing, which i dont want so im turning down the feedrate & the combustion air.........trick is to keep the flame going, eh?

 

[vvvv]

the light dimmer cut 30w from the combustion blower which is running quieter. slowed exhaust allowed for lower setting of pellet feed while keeping the fire from going out intermittently. glass, which gets hit by the burnpot output, is getting ash on it more but the ash wipes off with paper. exhaust outside is clear, not smoky.singlewall exhaust pipe is under 150*f , actual exhaust temp ~220*f.............stove runs radiant & room blower dont come on hardly. fan constantly blowing on exhaust pipe from rear of stove cools the pipe ala Magic Heat style

 

[MCPO]

the light dimmer cut 30w from the combustion blower which is running quieter. slowed exhaust allowed for lower setting of pellet feed while keeping the fire from going out intermittently. glass, which gets hit by the burnpot output, is getting ash on it more but the ash wipes off with paper. exhaust outside is clear, not smoky.singlewall exhaust pipe is under 150*f , actual exhaust temp ~220*f.............stove runs radiant & room blower dont come on hardly. fan constantly blowing on exhaust pipe from rear of stove cools the pipe ala Magic Heat style

So whats the advantage of running it without the room fan coming on to extract heat off the exchanger ?
The stove wasn`t designed for radiant heat alone. The heat exchanger method of extracting heat from it is best.
Originally on #1 heat setting of my P-38 (very low flame) my stove distribution fan would shut down but the radiant heat off it was very minimal and since the control board didn`t allow the distribution fan to run too often , most of the heat went out the exhaust. I did some rewiring to allow for full time manual variable speed control and I can now get close to 40 hrs from a bag on #1 heat setting and still get a fair amount of heat from it. I didn`t screw with the combustion system.
Of course the Englander PDVC flame control on the lowest settings aren`t as exacting as what`s on the Harman P-38 and the Harman will provide a longer burn from a bag but my PDVC works pretty darn good as it is and I don`t see a lot of room for improvement in it`s design and especially not with what you are doing.