More Level Heat Output - Leyden or Encore Cat?

[JV_Thimble]

Tried to ask my dealer about which of the stoves he reps is better, what puts out too much heat, which is easier to operate, which is more subject to breakage, etc. Didn't have much luck on that. He said that all of the stoves that he reps are good stoves, and that the differences mainly result from differences in wood, chimney, and whether a stove is being operated correctly. And from reading here, I suspect he's completely in the right on that.

However, when asking about the Leyden and the Encore Cat (because we like the appearance of these, and I'm a bit nervous about the Leyden putting out too much heat), he told me that the Encore Cat can be more easily operated at a lower heat output, so I may like that. He de-emphasized listed burn times, as it depends on how much air/how hot you burn a load.

Whatever I get, I'm sure we'll be happy with it. But a stove that burns at 700 F for a couple of hours during a burn cycle concerns me a bit. The old VC Vigilant would cook us out at about 500 and an hour and a half burn...

 

[jharkin]

Both stoves have the same size firebox and a similar style, so I can see why the comparison. Odd thing is the ratings are very different - 50k BTUh Encore, 75 for the Leyden. Maybe its how the manufacturers test ?

I cant speak to the Leyden, but Im reasonably happy with my Encore. Its true you can get very long low steady burns. this year now that I have better wood I have gone over 12hr on a full load of dense oak averaging 400F. Thats ok on a mild fall night but midwinter I probably will only get 7-8hr needing to run it hot overnight.

OTOH I did have to put some work and $ into this stove to get it to perform (10yr old when I inherited it), and if you run it hard you have to watch it as it can run away from you. I havent had an issues since I fixed it up, however many owners here have reported quality issues and expensive maintenance when they are used 24/7 long-term. I dont know if the quality has improved under the new ownership.

Good luck whatever you decide...

-Jeremy

 

[HotCoals]

Go cat and you will never go back!

 

[Backwoods Savage]

The Leyden is one we looked at and I recall going into the showroom and they had one fired up. This was a large showroom with a high ceiling. The first thing we noticed was we felt the high heat from quite a distance.....and the thing was almost out of wood at the time. I feared it would be too harsh of a heat for us but did like the looks of the stove.

I had always heard of the "soft" heat with soapstone but did not believe it. We now have a soapstone, and I believe it. A 500-600 degree heat from a Fireview is a lot different feeling heat. Also, with the cat, we can run it long on low heat without worries. We've cleaned our chimney only one time and we're going into our 4th winter with this stove.

 

[certified106]

Go cat and you will never go back!

+1 I concur go with a cat stove

 

[JV_Thimble]

Any thoughts on flame view with the VC Encore and Lopi Leyden? Have seen some decent video of the encore flames as well as the Leyden. Have also heard the Leyden may not always provide good viewing - sometimes more of a smoke chamber to fee the secondary. Have about 21' of flue above where the stove will T into a new liner (6", insulated), but don't know how the draft will be till that's done.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Any thoughts on flame view with the VC Encore and Lopi Leyden? Have seen some decent video of the encore flames as well as the Leyden. Have also heard the Leyden may not always provide good viewing - sometimes more of a smoke chamber to fee the secondary. Have about 21' of flue above where the stove will T into a new liner (6", insulated), but don't know how the draft will be till that's done.

If the Encore Cat is anything like the Intrepid Cat then it is a slow lazy flame. Kind of neat looking. Best way to describe it is underwater fire.

 

[branchburner]

The downdraft stoves can also give an "underwater fire" effect - I call them ghost flames. So it's not like your firebox is an empty, black pit. Subdued, but nice.

I think a cat will give you a more even, controllable heat than the Leyden.

 

[SolarAndWood]

If the Encore Cat is anything like the Intrepid Cat then it is a slow lazy flame. Kind of neat looking. Best way to describe it is underwater fire.

That is what our Encore cat looked like, very neat looking. The problem we had is we could not get it to reliably burn low and invariably overheated the house. The new stove has twice the size firebox yet reliably burns lower than the Encore even with full loads every time.

 

[Troutchaser]

The leyden is going to throw a lot of heat. You should have more control with the cat.
I just don't think that you can burn cleanly with the Leyden without first getting up there to 600*. Then she's gonna sit in that range for a bit.
Once the cruise period starts, you should be able to keep it under 600*.
I'm guessing flames are similar in both stoves. If you like flames, you can enjoy cooking up a coal bed.

My son and I like to watch those ghost flames licking around the splits before pouring out the shoe.

 

[JV_Thimble]

The leyden is going to throw a lot of heat. You should have more control with the cat.
I just don't think that you can burn cleanly with the Leyden without first getting up there to 600*. Then she's gonna sit in that range for a bit.
Once the cruise period starts, you should be able to keep it under 600*.
I'm guessing flames are similar in both stoves. If you like flames, you can enjoy cooking up a coal bed.

My son and I like to watch those ghost flames licking around the splits before pouring out the shoe.

Thanks, definitely leaning towards the cat at the moment. Will order something in the morning either way, as we're heading out to the dealer then.

 

[jharkin]

If it helps, some views of the show in an Encore. You definitely wont get the kind of flames a burn tube non-cat has.

First shot is firing the load after loading up a full load for the overnight burn.
Second shot is cruising at mid air - around 550F.
Third is cruising at low air - around 400F.

I can get it to cruise as low as 375 continuously... But you need to have good wood, a good bed of coals, and absolutely PERFECT gaskets all around. It was the last that I struggled with on this old stove. Hopefully a brand new one wouldn't have trouble.

 

[JV_Thimble]

If it helps, some views of the show in an Encore. You definitely wont get the kind of flames a burn tube non-cat has.

First shot is firing the load after loading up a full load for the overnight burn.
Second shot is cruising at mid air - around 550F.
Third is cruising at low air - around 400F.

I can get it to cruise as low as 375 continuously... But you need to have good wood, a good bed of coals, and absolutely PERFECT gaskets all around. It was the last that I struggled with on this old stove. Hopefully a brand new one wouldn't have trouble.

Thanks - and I'm sure if I do have gasket problems - new or otherwise - you guys will all provide some help with diagnosis and solving.

 

[jharkin]

JV-

One last comment... I made my Encore work with a lot of effort because its what I had (inherited) and I have fond remembrances of growing up with an old resolute.

Having said that... It is NOT bulletproof like the old ones were. As much as I love its looks.... if I was starting from scratch ,based on what I read here any VC would not be my first choice. For a cat stove I think I'd pretty much choose either Woodstock or Blaze King... leaning heavily to Woodstock based on aesthetics and all the good things Dennis has written about the stove and the people there.

Good luck tomorrow! you must be excited........

 

[JV_Thimble]

JV-

One last comment... I made my Encore work with a lot of effort because its what I had (inherited) and I have fond remembrances of growing up with an old resolute.

Having said that... It is NOT bulletproof like the old ones were. As much as I love its looks.... if I was starting from scratch ,based on what I read here any VC would not be my first choice. For a cat stove I think I'd pretty much choose either Woodstock or Blaze King... leaning heavily to Woodstock based on aesthetics and all the good things Dennis has written about the stove and the people there.

Good luck tomorrow! you must be excited........

Yes, excited and exhausted. Have been a bit obsessed by this for a while.

 

[JV_Thimble]

Oddly enough, we decided to go with the Leyden. I was all about the Encore Cat, and my wife was leaning towards the Hearthstone Phoenix. Dealer talked me out of the VC - has had some trouble getting spare parts over the past few years. And the guy I talked to there was not a Cat fan - though the owner is.

Between the Phoenix and the Leyden, it came down to looks. The Leyden will simply look better in our space. Naturally, I'll post some pics once we get things done, and likely questions along the way.

Thanks to everyone here for your input along the way - you've all been a huge help.

 

[branchburner]

Congrats - enjoy, and prepare to be warm!

 

[jharkin]

Congrats JV... Im sure that stove will serve you well.