More Problems With Enviro Empress

[cowgirl]

I had posted back around the first of the month. Still having problems with stove. No help from dealer. Enviro distributor for the area, (supplies the dealer) has been mush more helpful. Troubleshoots over the phone, very nice. OK. Stove is set for ON/OFF mode. We start the stove, set in on number 3 and the flame height fluctuates quite a bit, I didn't know if this was normal or not. After 20 minutes or so the flame gets very short and the stove shuts off.
Because we set up the stove ourselves, the front air adjustment has not been set using a the dealers guage - used to set optimum combustion environment?
But besides that, we have found that the T that connects the blower to the "chimney" pipe is totally clogged with ash. We've cleaned it out and the stove ran all day, but then shut off again the next morning? Poor quality pellets? Burn is not set hot enough? Please advise.

 

[hearthtools]

I had posted back around the first of the month. Still having problems with stove. No help from dealer. Enviro distributor for the area, (supplies the dealer) has been mush more helpful. Troubleshoots over the phone, very nice. OK. Stove is set for ON/OFF mode. We start the stove, set in on number 3 and the flame height fluctuates quite a bit, I didn't know if this was normal or not. After 20 minutes or so the flame gets very short and the stove shuts off.
Because we set up the stove ourselves, the front air adjustment has not been set using a the dealers guage - used to set optimum combustion environment?
But besides that, we have found that the T that connects the blower to the "chimney" pipe is totally clogged with ash. We've cleaned it out and the stove ran all day, but then shut off again the next morning? Poor quality pellets? Burn is not set hot enough? Please advise.

You are saying the T was clogged.

this tells me the stove has not had its annual service
If the T was clogged then all the ash traps in the stove will be also.
what about the rest of the pipe.
you say you have the front air adjustment so im sure you have an insert.

there will be a bend in flex pipe around the damper
a brush will need to be ran through it to get all the ash out.
Brush the Pipe from the CAP down

DID YOU PULL THE COMBUSTION BLOWER and clean
did you clean the combustion chamber that is behind the firebrick

this kind of maintenance needs to be done every year for you stove to keep running.

this kind of advice in in the yellow sticky help pages at the top of the pellet room

 

[hearthtools]

your stove might not be feeding all the time because the vacuum switch is tripping because the stove is dirty
you also need to clean the vacuum switch hose and port
this is done when you pull the combustion blower and clean.

you also want to pull the convection blower and clean also
or it will end up like this in a few years.

 

[cowgirl]

Thanks for your input Hearthtools. This new stove has not even run but 5 days max since install. It just will not stay running. 

This is what happens. Start stove, move burn rate from #1 to #3, adjust air intake a bit. Flames rise & fall a bit for 20 minutes or so, flame goes down very low then stove quits with auger light staying on. Dealer is of no help. We did the install so he will not come out.

We are just looking at every part of the stove to see what's going on.

With all due respect, how can this need so much cleaning when it never runs but a few minutes?

 

[firewarrior820]

can you give a picture of the install it might help ,see if there's anything obvious

 

[steamguy]

I just got done cleaning our Empress, and there are some tricks to cleaning this stove. This is kind of 'known-if-known' stuff, and not covered well in any of the manuals.

What Hearthtools says is absolutely correct; please permit me to expand on his points a bit.

Specific to the Empress, I've noticed a couple of things: You have to take apart everything from the combustion chamber back to the tee and check it for cleanliness. This means the fireback plates come out of the stove, and you open the damper (slide it to the right) to gain access and clean that small area back there behind the fireback plates, and if necessary, pull the combustion blower (it's not too hard to do). I'd recommend it since you had a tee-full of ash.

The best thing to do when you start into this job is to pull the cleanout on the tee first to give yourself some draft for the vacuum to really get some airflow going and suck the ash out of the stove. Works like a charm for me.

Also, one trick: Enviro recommends using penetrating oil on the 4 screws that hold the keepers for the plates. When you put them back, use a good anti-seize on the threads and they'll come right out for you the next time.

The bad news is that you now have to open up everything one more time. But this time go through it from front to back. Also, don't forget to oil your motors as you're reassembling!

Hope this all helps.

 

[hearthtools]

I just got done cleaning our Empress, and there are some tricks to cleaning this stove. This is kind of 'known-if-known' stuff, and not covered well in any of the manuals.

What Hearthtools says is absolutely correct; please permit me to expand on his points a bit.

Specific to the Empress, I've noticed a couple of things: You have to take apart everything from the combustion chamber back to the tee and check it for cleanliness. This means the fireback plates come out of the stove, and you open the damper (slide it to the right) to gain access and clean that small area back there behind the fireback plates, and if necessary, pull the combustion blower (it's not too hard to do). I'd recommend it since you had a tee-full of ash.

The best thing to do when you start into this job is to pull the cleanout on the tee first to give yourself some draft for the vacuum to really get some airflow going and suck the ash out of the stove. Works like a charm for me.

Also, one trick: Enviro recommends using penetrating oil on the 4 screws that hold the keepers for the plates. When you put them back, use a good anti-seize on the threads and they'll come right out for you the next time.

The bad news is that you now have to open up everything one more time. But this time go through it from front to back. Also, don't forget to oil your motors as you're reassembling!

Hope this all helps.

But he is saying the stove is 5 days old
how could the T be full in 5 days?

 

[steamguy]

I just got done cleaning our Empress...

But he is saying the stove is 5 days old
how could the T be full in 5 days?

Wow, a stove only 5 days old and he says ...But besides that, we have found that the T that connects the blower to the “chimney” pipe is totally clogged with ash.

What if he got a really bad batch of pellets? Could they be the cause of all this? Thinking about it... stove goes out, auger running, no fire. Clogged tee. What about something severely restricting the chimney?

Just thinking out of the firebox...

 

[hearthtools]

I just got done cleaning our Empress...

But he is saying the stove is 5 days old
how could the T be full in 5 days?

Wow, a stove only 5 days old and ...But besides that, we have found that the T that connects the blower to the “chimney” pipe is totally clogged with ash.

What if he got a really bad batch of pellets? Could they be the cause of all this? Thinking about it... stove goes out, auger running, no fire. Clogged tee. What about something severely restricting the chimney?

Just thinking out of the firebox...

If the T is truly clogged the Pressure switch would have tripped and the auger and ignitor would not work.

 

[N-gree]

Pellet quality - burning an enviro for 2 months might produce that kind of ash from a good pellet, but with that kind of ash is coming through the combustion blower into the tee and probably coating the low limit sensor to shut off the stove, meaning that vaccum must be good, then I would blame the pellets. Try burning on high mode (if you can) for 12-24 hours as the higher heat should get a bit cleaner burn, but AFTER you do a cleaning on it. BTW, what's the glass look like? solid dirty, streaks?

Jason

 

[fmarg13]

Happen to see this forum and as an empress owner hope to not only find good information but share information...I actually have a minor problem, but I'll start a new thread since it differs from this one.
But wanted to add my two cents on the cleaning aspect (sorry I cannot help on the debug of your condition-a service expert should be called):

Installation: I felt better that it was installed by a Professional- I'm handy, but this was borderline. through the wall and short vertical rise. But you know, the Building inspectors grilled me about it, and insurance made me fill out forms, so having the paper made the process quick and painless.

Maintenance/Annual: After first year of trouble-free running, I called for annual checkup from same provider that installed it ($129 seemed high, but wait...). Service provider was great. Immediately he told me a had a recall for the front door- so much for factory notification. I picked it up and did it myself - 1 minute job. Then I watched as he openedd up every nook and cranny of the unit - I copied every step down. He did the combustion gauge adj and I locked the set screw on air intake. He explained the need to get 'intimate' with this model of stove for maintenance!

Cleaning: Admittedly the empress seems to require more care than others. Many colleagues at work have stoves, but don't seem to report the level and intensity of maintenance. I suggest you make a chart for yourself...I do this religously and didn't call for annual cleaning
daily - clean out burn pot/liner
2-3 days - pull the exchange rod, brush and vac everywhere, and empty ash pan
1-2 weeks - clean/brush the heat exchange tubes area in addition to other cleaning
3 weeks - pull the 2 side plates, and clean/vac all the way back into the exhaust tube (I missed this the first year and was lucky I was using it as low volume backup heat source..boy it was full!)
2 months or 2x/season - pull the firebrick panels and repeat above cleaning, blow out vacuum line (or it doesn't start after 15 sec-error code), I bought 10' flex 4" cleaning brush and did the vertical stack, emptied the tee and vac'd out back into the horizontal pipe (a flex vac hose does wonders!)
(oh, and as noted by others on this thread, the oil on those screws helps)

Good luck

 

[South of Boston]

I had posted back around the first of the month. Still having problems with stove. No help from dealer. Enviro distributor for the area, (supplies the dealer) has been mush more helpful. Troubleshoots over the phone, very nice. OK. Stove is set for ON/OFF mode. We start the stove, set in on number 3 and the flame height fluctuates quite a bit, I didn't know if this was normal or not. After 20 minutes or so the flame gets very short and the stove shuts off.
Because we set up the stove ourselves, the front air adjustment has not been set using a the dealers guage - used to set optimum combustion environment?
But besides that, we have found that the T that connects the blower to the "chimney" pipe is totally clogged with ash. We've cleaned it out and the stove ran all day, but then shut off again the next morning? Poor quality pellets? Burn is not set hot enough? Please advise.

Does this T connect to a vent in the chimney? Does it go all the way up to the top with a cap?
Could this filled T be a product of a dirty chimney during install? No expert just adding my .02 Seems that only 5 days of burning which could be around 200 pound of pellets might not create enough ash to fill a T if the stoves ash tray had ash in it. A T I think would be around 2 cups of ash. Just cleaned my ash tray and got around two full cups of dry ash after 5 bags.

 

[MButkus]

Boy does that sound like a bad low limit switch... 20 min and it shuts off...
I'd find it and by-pass it... see if it goes for an hour...

 

[fmarg13]

Regarding the 'tee', that is just the junction of the horizontal stove vent pipe that goes outside the house, and the vertical stack (no chimney involved in my installation)
It is like a lint trap of sorts a few inches lower than the horizontal pipe...and captures all the ash as the exhaust blows out up the stack.
You just remove that small piece by unscrewing a couple of screws and twisting it carefully off.

Safe to say cleaning is not the biggest worry right now.

Good luck.

 

[steamguy]

<SNIP>...as noted by others on this thread, the oil on those screws helps

Good luck

Just a quick note, as we are swerving off topic here: I found it best to use high-temperature anti-seize on the screws; they will NEVER stick. Same thing you use on spark plugs, available at any auto parts store. Can't figure out why the factory puts them in dry!

Now, back to our regularly scheduled topic...

 

[hearthtools]

Happen to see this forum and as an empress owner hope to not only find good information but share information...I actually have a minor problem, but I'll start a new thread since it differs from this one.
But wanted to add my two cents on the cleaning aspect (sorry I cannot help on the debug of your condition-a service expert should be called):

Installation: I felt better that it was installed by a Professional- I'm handy, but this was borderline. through the wall and short vertical rise. But you know, the Building inspectors grilled me about it, and insurance made me fill out forms, so having the paper made the process quick and painless.

Maintenance/Annual: After first year of trouble-free running, I called for annual checkup from same provider that installed it ($129 seemed high, but wait...). Service provider was great. Immediately he told me a had a recall for the front door- so much for factory notification. I picked it up and did it myself - 1 minute job. Then I watched as he openedd up every nook and cranny of the unit - I copied every step down. He did the combustion gauge adj and I locked the set screw on air intake. He explained the need to get 'intimate' with this model of stove for maintenance!

Cleaning: Admittedly the empress seems to require more care than others. Many colleagues at work have stoves, but don't seem to report the level and intensity of maintenance. I suggest you make a chart for yourself...I do this religously and didn't call for annual cleaning
daily - clean out burn pot/liner
2-3 days - pull the exchange rod, brush and vac everywhere, and empty ash pan
1-2 weeks - clean/brush the heat exchange tubes area in addition to other cleaning
3 weeks - pull the 2 side plates, and clean/vac all the way back into the exhaust tube (I missed this the first year and was lucky I was using it as low volume backup heat source..boy it was full!)
2 months or 2x/season - pull the firebrick panels and repeat above cleaning, blow out vacuum line (or it doesn't start after 15 sec-error code), I bought 10' flex 4" cleaning brush and did the vertical stack, emptied the tee and vac'd out back into the horizontal pipe (a flex vac hose does wonders!)
(oh, and as noted by others on this thread, the oil on those screws helps)

Good luck

cleaning on the empress in not much more or less than most pellet stove. it is just that some people dont know they need to do the steps needed in a full cleaning.
the Advantage series of the whitfield is a good example.
most owners and a lot of dealers did not know you have to remove the firebrick AND THE BAFFLE behind the firebrick every 2 tons of pellet or every year.
I have did a in house service just this year that the customers had the stove for 10 years and the stove was not working right.
they replaced EVERYTHING on the stove. Blowers, updated burn pot, auger motor and control board. the stove still did not burn right.
they brought it to my store 45 minutes away from were they live and we serviced it.
the firebrick and baffle was NEVER removed for 10 years and it was PACKED with ash.

Stove worked great after we did a FULL service to it.

BTW Cowgirl has never replied to this post so what was wrong with her FIVE day old stove must have been user error or non proper adjustment of air. not cleaning because the stove could not have been used enough to marret cleaning.