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MY F600 CRACKED TODAY

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by forby, Mar 12, 2009.

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  1. forby

    forby New Member

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    As I'm coming off my first season burning wood in my F600, I was thinking about how different it is to heat in the shoulder season. Starting, stopping, starting, stopping etc.

    I just dropped one of my kids off at the bus stop and came thru the downstairs (bi-level home) to check the fire I started a couple of hours earlier. The temp was in the low 400 range (never got above 550 all season). I went to turn the air down to get my traditional temp increase to 475 and the air controller wouldn't move. I opened the side door to see if there were coals around the air opening that may have found there way into the mechanism. I cleared a few coals away and heard a low bang. It sounded like someone banged a beer bottle on a table.

    Upon further examination, I noticed a perfectly vertical crack slightly to the right of the ash pan handle and above the ash lip. It's on the frame just below the doors.


    I'M #$%^#!# MAD!!!!!!

    I hope my dealer doesn't give me any crap. I never got this stove above 550 all season and he knows that. I went there at least twice for advice about how to get more heat. I paid the dealer $6,000 for the stove, hearth and SS chimney. If I get anything but pristine customer service I'll explode.

    SERENITY NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Anybody care to comment or provide words of calming to me????

    Is it still safe to run till it gets repaired? I have a CO detector near the stove that is at zero right now.

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  2. jqgs214

    jqgs214 Minister of Fire

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    Hope you never used the ashpan door to get fire started. Most stoves say that should not be done. Without seeing the damage its hard to say if you should use stove or not, post some pics if ya can
  3. forby

    forby New Member

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    I open the ash pan door long enough to remove the ash pan and set it on the hearth. Then close the door. This according to Jotul's instructions. The door has never been opened longer than 10 seconds to access the ash pan. My dealer also advised me to open the side door during this process.
  4. jqgs214

    jqgs214 Minister of Fire

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    Thats good, the less firepower you give the manufacturer the better, seems like you should have an excellent case. Now where are the pics?
  5. Jags

    Jags Moderate Moderator Staff Member

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    That SUCKS. :coolmad:

    At least give your dealer the opportunity to do the right thing. If that doesn't work...THEN explode.
  6. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    And let the dealer be the one to advise on burning or not. They can see the stove and they are the ones with liability insurance.
  7. Jags

    Jags Moderate Moderator Staff Member

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    ^^^ X2
  8. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Definitely a bummer. I'd be grumpy too. Hope the dealer acts quickly on your behalf.
  9. forby

    forby New Member

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    OK.... I have a pic now. The ash pan door handle is visible near the bottom.

    The dealer came out today and the following transpired:

    He asked me a lot of questions about how I start and deal with fires and ash removal. He inspected the stove at length. As a note, he is probably in his mid- thirties and has worked in the family business since he was a kid. He claims to have been the youngest certified installer in the state. He's a really nice guy and sounds knowledgeable without a hint of being pompous.

    Anyway, he opened the ash pan door and noticed the inside of the door had some creosote buildup. The gasket near the top of the ash pan door and near the handle was indicating air rushing thru. Upon further inspection it was noted that the gasket indentation was not near the center of the gasket in this location, but rather near the extreme top of the gasket. It actually appears as if the door was mounted at an angle. He theorized that the air had been rushing thru for some time by the appearance. It is in the exact location of the crack.

    Now. the interesting part. The ash pan door has a substantial amount of play up and down when opened. It seems as if the pin holding the door or the hole in the door/chassis is out of spec causing about a half inch of up/down play.

    He is checking with the Jotul rep because the whole stove needs to be replaced. He's hopeful for me, but is wisely reserving confirmation until he speaks with the rep. I for one hope there will be no issue. There were no signs of over-firing elsewhere. This could also account for the fact that I can never get the stove over about 500 degrees.

    I will keep all posted.

    Does anyone else with a 600 Jotul have excessive play in the ash pan door. It's up and down play when the door is opened. CHECK ASAP!!! Maybe you can be spared the inconvenience. Also, check the gasket near the handle for burn marks on the gasket and a gasket indentation that migrates off the edge of the gasket.

    Forby

    Attached Files:

  10. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    Things happen. The stove should certainly be covered under the warranty. I sold a LOT of various stoves (thousands) over the years and a certain amount of problems are normal. Yes, it sucks when it happens to you........

    I probably sold 500 Jotuls and only had to actually fix (castings) less than 5.....so that was not too bad.
  11. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    Also, just FYI, most companies will not put the "over fire" excuse on you. More likely an uneducated dealer would say something like that. It is only in those rare cases where we would look at a stove all twisted and warped.......and then find out the guy burned particle board.

    I would always just assume that things will be made whole.......it could have simply been a bad casting with internal stresses, etc.
    Certainly does not sound like abuse by you. So don't get mad until you have been reasonable for a while....chances are your deal and jotul will be reasonable too.
  12. stoveguy13

    stoveguy13 Minister of Fire

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    It will be covered dont worry about it. i have never had a problem with that you have nothing to fear.
  13. forby

    forby New Member

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    Thanks for all the positives....

    I really feel that the hinge is to blame. The gasket was barely in contact with the frame. I'd still like to hear from an owner as to wether or not their door has as much play.

    see the following images.... I hope the type is readable!!!!

    Attached Files:

  14. dvellone

    dvellone Feeling the Heat

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    I have a f400 not 600 but I noticed that there is 5/16ths play at the handle end of the door - the edge furthest from the hinge. I'm assuming that the locking mechanism will line up the door correctly. Wouldn't that end of the door and the lock itself align the door to where it needs to seal correctly?

    edit: I took a closer look at your picture and you have probably less play than I do though my "indents" are aligned correctly and the door is sealing properly. Maybe take a look at the locking mechanism and that could be where alignment is getting screwed up.
  15. forby

    forby New Member

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    As the door is latched, it gets pulled in but not up at all. If the play is normal, then maybe the latch is at fault. Either way, does anyone have the scorching on the gasket and the creosote on the door?

    I hate to be paranoid, but I'd rather have my ducks in a row.....
  16. myzamboni

    myzamboni Minister of Fire

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    Be grateful that you bought a stove manufactured by a great company and not a brand that is no longer in business (or sold and not honoring warranty).
  17. Sealcove

    Sealcove Member

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    I have been burning a new F600 this season, and I have no perceptible play in my ash pad door. It feels very tight.
  18. Peter B.

    Peter B. Feeling the Heat

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    For the sake of the discussion...

    On my stove's loading door (which doesn't seal completely), the areas on the door inner surface that are adjacent to a leak are <clean> of creosote deposits and the areas near where the door makes a decent seal show some black deposition. This is because the incoming air (like a window air wash) helps keep the inner surface clean.

    So the gasket surface showing the sharp line between light and dark is more likely where the door is sealing properly... and the all light gasket surfaces more likely to be where the door is leaking.

    Two cents.

    Peter B.

    -----
  19. ansehnlich1

    ansehnlich1 Minister of Fire

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    yeah I burn an Oslo and always have areas of black shiny creosote on the inside of the ash door and even in the corners of the side loading door.
  20. fatrabbit

    fatrabbit New Member

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    Forby-
    i have a used F600 I purchased recently. After reading your post I thought I would examine the ashpan door. it turns out I have the exact same crack in my stove. It may have been covered with cement when I bought the stove. It seems like it runs hot with the air closed down. Did you notice a jump in burn temp? What did the dealer say? Is it safe to burn still or not? Since I bought the stove used and its a 2003 model I may be S.O.L.
  21. Frank_enstein

    Frank_enstein New Member

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    I have just recently purchased a Jotul 600 and my door is great nice and tight. It did take me a while to learn how to operate stove. I had called my dealer and asked him for advice about how to run stove and didnt really get anywhere. I was on here this past tuesday and just reading trying to learn something I could do different (being all P#issed off, about ready to throw my hands up). I found out to load my stove n-s. I want to thank all the people on here for all their post so people as myself can learn new things when even the dealers aren't willing to help you out. And by the way my damper does stick like hell.
  22. fugazi42

    fugazi42 New Member

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    I have an F500 that we purchased last year that has play in the ash pan door. The ash pan door handle will _not_ always pull the door in tight and engage the gasket. In fact, I've been able to create a situation where the handle is engaged, feels like it's fully locked, but there is actually a 1/8 gap between the door and the ash pan. I detailed this in a post a few months ago. http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/35222/

    In my experience, if that ash pan door isn't sealing properly you won't have a problem with low stove temperatures. In fact, the opposite will happen. You'll have a blast furnace on your hands.

    Josh
  23. forby

    forby New Member

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    Thank you to all for the great info...

    First of all, the stove dealer took the position of "Jotul recommends NOT using the stove if cracked".... It actually jammed the air control lever because the frame warped out of spec DUE TO THE CRACK. After it cooled, the rack closed up and the lever worked again.

    Secondly, If the air controller is turned down slightly(less air), the temps would rise by 50-75 degrees. Less air means less up the chimney and a hotter stove. If you choke it down far enough, the opposite occurs. The fire is starved for air and cools. So, if I was constantly letting air in thru the ash pan door, I was never really limiting the air adequately to keep a hot fire. The stove never exceeded 525 while the same stove at the dealer would consistently reach 650 degrees!!!

    Thirdly, I understand that the gasket would show some deposits, but this one seems to show more like a brown, burnt color in the area affected while the area to the right was clean. Maybe the air rushed in more to the left of the brown discoloration and traveled toward the center of the door(normal airflow it seems) and that's why the gasket is brown there. Anyway, the dealer said definitely abnormal and in line with the crack.

    I won't know till next week if they will cover it, but the fact that the dealer thinks the ash pan door is the culprit is good. That would be a defect in fabrication. I hope there won't be any silliness like me paying for labor or sharing the cost because I "should have noticed the gasket" and I am responsible for gasket care.
  24. forby

    forby New Member

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    Sealcove & Frank_enstein....

    Can you confirm something for me?

    Do your doors have play when opened? There is no play when closed and locked...
  25. Sealcove

    Sealcove Member

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    I assume you mean at the hinge. When I open the door 90 degrees from the closed position there is no play if I try to jiggle the door close to the hinge. However if I lift up on the end of the door I can lift it up about 1/4 - 3/8". There is no play that would suggest that the hinge end of the door is not able to be tightly seal.
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