My oil guy says furnace will not last next heating season

[control1]

He is probably right I am using my pellet stove as my primary heat source.I donot know if I should replace the furnace , install a heat pump and be rid of oil completely.I do know I need some backup heat as when it gets really cold I do turn on the furnace to help take the chill out.Any sugggestions would be appreciated I already changed the hot water back to electricty.

 

[fossil]

What does your oil guy know about the "health" of your furnace? Is he also your service tech? Is he a salesman/installer? How old is the system? On what does he base his assessment (where in the system does he predict imminent failure)? All those questions aside, if you've been successful in using it only as a backup occasional source of heat, and your electrical rates are competitive, then going to an electric backup might be a good plan. Of course, there may be some costs involved in decommissioning/cleaning up/removing the old oil system. What sort of electric heating are you thinking about...portable/plug-in, or installed/hardwired? Rick

 

[control1]

I am thinking of the ductless air conditioning/heater where you place the compressor outside and it comes with four mounts each mount produces 9000 btu for a total of 36000 btu and these can be put in any room

 

[Wet1]

I have no idea what the health status is of your central heating system, but I would get a professional second opinion if you're not sure or capable of assessing it yourself. One thing is fore sure, you absolutely want a functional and reliable conventional central heating system in the house. It's a must for not only back up heating, but for resale value as well.

My oil fired heating was getting long in the tooth so I elected to rip everything out and convert over to NG last year. Even though I did all the work myself, it still cost me several thousands of dollars to do it right. It pained me because I have no intentions of using it. In fact, my new NG boilers both went unused this last year... but at this point at least I know they are new, completely reliable, and the work significantly increased the value of the house.

 

[peakbagger]

Nothing personal against the oil guy, but get a second opinion. Summer is the slow time of the year for oil dealers and with the drop in demand for new installations, the temptation would be to find alternative ways of keeping employees busy which means pushing replacements. If its a cast iron hot water boiler, they usually dont get to the point where they wont "last another season", rather, the efficency gets lousy and the burner may need major rehab.

 

[flamegrabber]

I did the same thing late last Fall. Had my old oiler and tank removed and installed a new mod-con NG boiler and SuperStor 45 gallon water tank.

My oil boiler was ~18 years old and it was getting pretty smelly. We had an oil blowback about 20 years ago and I didn't want to risk that happening again.

So now the new NG system should outlast me anyway.

Beware of those oil blowbacks. They are more likely to happen with older systems and the oil soot gets all over everything on every floor. You have to hire a special cleaning company to come in and chemically wipe down everything in the house, and I mean everything.

The soot is so fine is goes right up through the floors.

Now I have just the right diversification. NG and pellet heat for the house, and still need the petro for the vehicles but at least OPEC isn't picking my pocket at every turn.

FG.

I have no idea what the health status is of your central heating system, but I would get a professional second opinion if you're not sure or capable of assessing it yourself. One thing is fore sure, you absolutely want a functional and reliable conventional central heating system in the house. It's a must for not only back up heating, but for resale value as well.

My oil fired heating was getting long in the tooth so I elected to rip everything out and convert over to NG last year. Even though I did all the work myself, it still cost me several thousands of dollars to do it right. It pained me because I have no intentions of using it. In fact, my new NG boilers both went unused this last year... but at this point at least I know they are new, completely reliable, and the work significantly increased the value of the house.

 

[tjnamtiw]

He is probably right I am using my pellet stove as my primary heat source.I donot know if I should replace the furnace , install a heat pump and be rid of oil completely.I do know I need some backup heat as when it gets really cold I do turn on the furnace to help take the chill out.Any sugggestions would be appreciated I already changed the hot water back to electricty.

Seriously consider a geothermal heat pump which will work in any area of the country AND uses about 1/4 of the electricity that a normal heat pump system uses AND it will qualify for the government's new tax rebate system.

 

[smirnov3]

I second the recommendations I've seen:

1) get a second opinion

2) if the burner is not going to fail catastrophically (ie the main danger is loss of efficiency) then just install a CO sensor & keep on keeping on.

3) if you DO need to install a replacement heater, don't get a top of the line / high efficiency model if the price differance is large (after all, you will only be using it for back up heat)


On a personal note, I replaced my 80+ year old boiler (originally coal, converted to oil) last year, partly because the insides were about to burn through (and drop the efficiency through the floor) and also because maintenance was expensive (for instance, the unit had two clean-out doors. both had warped off their hinges long ago and had to be sealed with some hight temp sealant)

I got quotes from 3 different companies, for both regular oil boilers & high efficiency boilers. The prices quoted were all about the same, but the work that was included varied. For instance, the high efficiency models were priced about $1000 more, except from one company, where they quoted almost the same price. But when I took a closer look at the quote, I noticed that they did not include a flue/liner like the other two did, so I called up the other companies, and they explained that because of the lower temperature of the exhaust gas of the high efficiency boiler, there was a high likelihood of condensation, and it would eat through the mortar if you didn't have a stainless steel flue in place (which I don't)

 

[Wet1]

I second the recommendations I've seen:

3) if you DO need to install a replacement heater, don't get a top of the line / high efficiency model if the price differance is large (after all, you will only be using it for back up heat)

I got quotes from 3 different companies, for both regular oil boilers & high efficiency boilers. The prices quoted were all about the same, but the work that was included varied. For instance, the high efficiency models were priced about $1000 more, except from one company, where they quoted almost the same price. But when I took a closer look at the quote, I noticed that they did not include a flue/liner like the other two did, so I called up the other companies, and they explained that because of the lower temperature of the exhaust gas of the high efficiency boiler, there was a high likelihood of condensation, and it would eat through the mortar if you didn't have a stainless steel flue in place (which I don't)

Agreed. When I looked into replacing my boilers, I looked into all types of alternatives. I found that while the mod-con boilers were not that much more money for the unit, the SS flue for them did add significantly to the cost of the project. Also found that the companies giving me quotes for installation increased their labor fees by a good amount as the price of the system went up, even though the project was really no larger. I guess this is standard for them to hit you a little harder for the more expensive units since they figure you're willing to pay more for the boiler, so you'll also pay more for the labor if you move up in boiler efficiency/quality.

As mentioned, in the end I did everything myself and decided to go with direct vent boilers. The SS flues (2) were expensive, I think I put about $1100 into them alone. In retrospect, I possibly should have went with cheaper boilers since I have no intention of using them 99.9999% of the time, but by going with the direct vent systems, I was able to free up the existing flue the old units occupied.

 

[Wet1]

Great minds think alike... I installed the 80 gal. SS with mine. I also have an electric DHW system as well, so I have the option to use either with the flip of a valve.

With that said, the NG company I signed with drastically changed their pricing structure and rates two months after I did the conversion to NG. I now have to pay 80% more per month for my base customer charge, and 60% more for the first 80CCF/month (it gets cheaper after that). I complained, but that obviously did no good. The NG company paid to have the gas lines ran to my house, plus gave me $600 in rebates for the two boilers, so I'm sure they are into my account for at least $5k, if not more. Since they gave me the shaft on the new policy changes/rates, I've decided to not use their gas... I've used about 5 CCF/Therms so far. In fact, I think I might call them and tell them to take their meter back until next Dec. so I won't have to pay them their monthly service charge. :cheese:

I did the same thing late last Fall. Had my old oiler and tank removed and installed a new mod-con NG boiler and SuperStor 45 gallon water tank.

My oil boiler was ~18 years old and it was getting pretty smelly. We had an oil blowback about 20 years ago and I didn't want to risk that happening again.

So now the new NG system should outlast me anyway.

Beware of those oil blowbacks. They are more likely to happen with older systems and the oil soot gets all over everything on every floor. You have to hire a special cleaning company to come in and chemically wipe down everything in the house, and I mean everything.

The soot is so fine is goes right up through the floors.

Now I have just the right diversification. NG and pellet heat for the house, and still need the petro for the vehicles but at least OPEC isn't picking my pocket at every turn.

FG.

I have no idea what the health status is of your central heating system, but I would get a professional second opinion if you're not sure or capable of assessing it yourself. One thing is fore sure, you absolutely want a functional and reliable conventional central heating system in the house. It's a must for not only back up heating, but for resale value as well.

My oil fired heating was getting long in the tooth so I elected to rip everything out and convert over to NG last year. Even though I did all the work myself, it still cost me several thousands of dollars to do it right. It pained me because I have no intentions of using it. In fact, my new NG boilers both went unused this last year... but at this point at least I know they are new, completely reliable, and the work significantly increased the value of the house.

 

[flamegrabber]

My new Burnham Freedom CM mod-con with outdoor reset cost me $999.95. National Grid subsidized it for me ( retail price was $3600.00 ) because mine was an oil conversion. So I saved alot of dough on it. Also got a $300.00 rebate on my new indirect water heater. 45 gallon SuperStor which only loses 1/2 a degree per hour.

I also direct-vented my new boiler. Free'd up my chimney for other uses.

The plumber told me that by 2015 all new heating system installs will by code require outdoor resets.

The conversion wasn't cheap but it does add to the property value. And with a new boiler being necessary soon anyway it was a good time to convert to gas with the deals National Grid was offering.

Next time oil goes back up north of $100.00/barrel I'll be ready for it, and it won't hurt so much filling my truck with diesel. Diversification is the way to go. It gives you a little more control and keeps OPEC from screwing you every time you need any kind of fuel.

FG.

I second the recommendations I've seen:

3) if you DO need to install a replacement heater, don't get a top of the line / high efficiency model if the price differance is large (after all, you will only be using it for back up heat)

I got quotes from 3 different companies, for both regular oil boilers & high efficiency boilers. The prices quoted were all about the same, but the work that was included varied. For instance, the high efficiency models were priced about $1000 more, except from one company, where they quoted almost the same price. But when I took a closer look at the quote, I noticed that they did not include a flue/liner like the other two did, so I called up the other companies, and they explained that because of the lower temperature of the exhaust gas of the high efficiency boiler, there was a high likelihood of condensation, and it would eat through the mortar if you didn't have a stainless steel flue in place (which I don't)

Agreed. When I looked into replacing my boilers, I looked into all types of alternatives. I found that while the mod-con boilers were not that much more money for the unit, the SS flue for them did add significantly to the cost of the project. Also found that the companies giving me quotes for installation increased their labor fees by a good amount as the price of the system went up, even though the project was really no larger. I guess this is standard for them to hit you a little harder for the more expensive units since they figure you're willing to pay more for the boiler, so you'll also pay more for the labor if you move up in boiler efficiency/quality.

As mentioned, in the end I did everything myself and decided to go with direct vent boilers. The SS flues (2) were expensive, I think I put about $1100 into them alone. In retrospect, I possibly should have went with cheaper boilers since I have no intention of using them 99.9999% of the time, but by going with the direct vent systems, I was able to free up the existing flue the old units occupied.

 

[flamegrabber]

After all charges and fees NG costs me $1.82 per therm, and I'm using about 1 therm per day for DHW and to keep the cellar pipes from freezing. That stat's on ~52*, and between 1 and 1.5 bags of pellets per day to heat the upstairs.

So for heat and DHW during the coldest months it's costing me ~$270-300 per month total NG and pellets. I heard NG goes down in the summer time so I'm expecting to pay the minimum charge, ~$15.00 or so per month during the warmer months.

Now, when I was on oil my monthly budget was $261.00 and that was for the 12 months ending June 2008. That's about $3100.00 per year.

Now I'll be paying just a bit over that for the few coldest months and probably 20 bucks each month from May thru Sept.

Works out to be less than 1/2 the cost of oil.

So it adds to the property value and also makes it a lot cheaper to live year round.

I'm glad OPEC pissed me off so much last Spring!

FG.

Great minds think alike... I installed the 80 gal. SS with mine. I also have an electric DHW system as well, so I have the option to use either with the flip of a valve.

With that said, the NG company I signed with drastically changed their pricing structure and rates two months after I did the conversion to NG. I now have to pay 80% more per month for my base customer charge, and 60% more for the first 80CCF/month (it gets cheaper after that). I complained, but that obviously did no good. The NG company paid to have the gas lines ran to my house, plus gave me $600 in rebates for the two boilers, so I'm sure they are into my account for at least $5k, if not more. Since they gave me the shaft on the new policy changes/rates, I've decided to not use their gas... I've used about 5 CCF/Therms so far. In fact, I think I might call them and tell them to take their meter back until next Dec. so I won't have to pay them their monthly service charge. :cheese:

I did the same thing late last Fall. Had my old oiler and tank removed and installed a new mod-con NG boiler and SuperStor 45 gallon water tank.

My oil boiler was ~18 years old and it was getting pretty smelly. We had an oil blowback about 20 years ago and I didn't want to risk that happening again.

So now the new NG system should outlast me anyway.

Beware of those oil blowbacks. They are more likely to happen with older systems and the oil soot gets all over everything on every floor. You have to hire a special cleaning company to come in and chemically wipe down everything in the house, and I mean everything.

The soot is so fine is goes right up through the floors.

Now I have just the right diversification. NG and pellet heat for the house, and still need the petro for the vehicles but at least OPEC isn't picking my pocket at every turn.

FG.

I have no idea what the health status is of your central heating system, but I would get a professional second opinion if you're not sure or capable of assessing it yourself. One thing is fore sure, you absolutely want a functional and reliable conventional central heating system in the house. It's a must for not only back up heating, but for resale value as well.

My oil fired heating was getting long in the tooth so I elected to rip everything out and convert over to NG last year. Even though I did all the work myself, it still cost me several thousands of dollars to do it right. It pained me because I have no intentions of using it. In fact, my new NG boilers both went unused this last year... but at this point at least I know they are new, completely reliable, and the work significantly increased the value of the house.

 

[Wet1]

Your gas company is a lot more fair than mine. I'm paying about $1.92/therm, not including the monthly service charge.

I honestly might have been better off not making the conversion to NG since I no longer use the systems for heating (I'm now doing all my heating with wood,pellets, and some coal here and there). With that said, like yourself, the run up on oil really got under my skin last summer, so I was willing to make the change as my systems also needed updating, plus now I know whoever owns this house will never be sucking of OPEC's poison teat... only for diesel and gas.

Looking at your numbers, it probably would be cheaper (or at least close to it) for you to burn oil based on your NG price of $1.82/them. $1.82/therm is equal to $2.53/gal for oil, which is significantly than today's rates. Although, your new system is likely more efficient than a traditional oil system so it's probably close to a push... not to mention the conversion increased the value of the house and took money out of OPEC's pocket. :cheese:

After all charges and fees NG costs me $1.82 per therm, and I'm using about 1 therm per day for DHW and to keep the cellar pipes from freezing. That stat's on ~52*, and between 1 and 1.5 bags of pellets per day to heat the upstairs.

So for heat and DHW during the coldest months it's costing me ~$270-300 per month total NG and pellets. I heard NG goes down in the summer time so I'm expecting to pay the minimum charge, ~$15.00 or so per month during the warmer months.

Now, when I was on oil my monthly budget was $261.00 and that was for the 12 months ending June 2008. That's about $3100.00 per year.

Now I'll be paying just a bit over that for the few coldest months and probably 20 bucks each month from May thru Sept.

Works out to be less than 1/2 the cost of oil. (But that's at yesterday's pricing.)*

So it adds to the property value and also makes it a lot cheaper to live year round.

I'm glad OPEC pissed me off so much last Spring!

FG.

 

[flamegrabber]

Yes but the pricing wasn't yesterdays, it was the previous years futures buy. That less than 1/2 oil's cost didn't contain any consideration from the Fall 2007-Winter-Spring 2008 run up. It was purchased from the 2006-2007 season's futures.

It was the futures price for the previous year, based on even the previous year before that's usage by me.

The $261.00 was my budgeted payment from June 2007-May 2008, before oil went thru the roof. My oil company stopped doing budget plans after that 12 month contract.

Then they offered 2 plans:

1.) Will call when you need it and pay the spot price.

2.) Pay a $300.00 "enrollment fee" into a new plan that will cap your cost of oil at $4.75/gallon. If oil goes above that price you only pay $4.75. The kicker was that you get no oil for the $300.00 fee, that's just a one time charge to get into the plan.

That really stuck in my craw.

In January 2008 we used 206 gallons of oil. At $4.00 per gallon that's over $800.00 for Jan alone.

And oil will go back up. Picken's said it'll be back over $100.00/barrel in 2 years.

It made a run at $5.00 and it will do that again.

FG.

Your gas company is a lot more fair than mine. I'm paying about $1.92/therm, not including the monthly service charge.

I honestly might have been better off not making the conversion to NG since I no longer use the systems for heating (I'm now doing all my heating with wood,pellets, and some coal here and there). With that said, like yourself, the run up on oil really got under my skin last summer, so I was willing to make the change as my systems also needed updating, plus now I know whoever owns this house will never be sucking of OPEC's poison teat... only for diesel and gas.

Looking at your numbers, it probably would be cheaper (or at least close to it) for you to burn oil based on your NG price of $1.82/them. $1.82/therm is equal to $2.53/gal for oil, which is significantly than today's rates. Although, your new system is likely more efficient than a traditional oil system so it's probably close to a push... not to mention the conversion increased the value of the house and took money out of OPEC's pocket. :cheese:

After all charges and fees NG costs me $1.82 per therm, and I'm using about 1 therm per day for DHW and to keep the cellar pipes from freezing. That stat's on ~52*, and between 1 and 1.5 bags of pellets per day to heat the upstairs.

So for heat and DHW during the coldest months it's costing me ~$270-300 per month total NG and pellets. I heard NG goes down in the summer time so I'm expecting to pay the minimum charge, ~$15.00 or so per month during the warmer months.

Now, when I was on oil my monthly budget was $261.00 and that was for the 12 months ending June 2008. That's about $3100.00 per year.

Now I'll be paying just a bit over that for the few coldest months and probably 20 bucks each month from May thru Sept.

Works out to be less than 1/2 the cost of oil. (But that's at yesterday's pricing.)*

So it adds to the property value and also makes it a lot cheaper to live year round.

I'm glad OPEC pissed me off so much last Spring!

FG.

 

[rap69ri]

He is probably right I am using my pellet stove as my primary heat source.I donot know if I should replace the furnace , install a heat pump and be rid of oil completely.I do know I need some backup heat as when it gets really cold I do turn on the furnace to help take the chill out.Any sugggestions would be appreciated I already changed the hot water back to electricty.

A search of Craigslist would probably net you a few choices for a used boiler. Last year when oil was high most people around here were changing to NG, and were selling their old boilers. There were some really old POS, but we did manage to find two to replace my niece and father's problematic boilers. Each was under 5 years old and should provide many years of use.