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My Progress has shipped!

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by HollowHill, Dec 2, 2011.

  1. Backwoods Savage

    Backwoods Savage Minister of Fire

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    I think that early in the burn those secondaries will light off but just not stay active as long. Black glass is a sign of either poor fuel or an air leak and, of course, the two combined. Oh how I wish we had our Progress right now as folks are learning how best to run these stoves.... I'll wait though.

    As for the 16 hour burns I do think folks are not completely understanding that. It sounds as if folks want a 16 hour burn throwing lots of heat and I highly doubt that will happen. In order to get long burns the wood has to burn slow and we also have to realize there are only so many btu's in any type of wood we burn. For example, popple can burn very nicely when needed but I doubt one would even get a 12 hour burn in a Progress with this wood. Granted, that is an extreme example but if folks expect a 16 hour burn each and every time they fill the stove than I suspect there will be some very unhappy people. This is why I hate to see those claims of x number of hour burn in any stove. Shoot, I can get over a 12 hour burn in the Fireview but when the outdoor air is cold, that simply is not feasible. Yet, it is possible to get a 12 hour burn from that stove. If someone bought a Fireview expecting a 12 hour burn all the time, I'd tell them to buy a different stove!

    Also, I fear there are many on this forum who are taking what some posters state and think that is the norm. It is not and many will learn how to run this stove and run it well but perhaps not overnight. It simply will run a bit different than some other stoves. We still have much experimenting to go and that is the real reason I wish we had our Progress now so that perhaps we could help a few others. But we will get it in time.

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  2. fire_man

    fire_man Minister of Fire

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    It would not surprise me if WS had to make a tweak to the air valve, to further limit secondary combustion. I asked about this at the Pig Roast, it sounds like it would be an easy change if it's even necessary. The firebox temps are indeed higher than originally planned, because they are now using IR glass to reduce front clearance requirements. Without the IR glass and ashlip, the beast needs 18" front clearance!

    Todd had a good point, turning down the draft sooner before the secondaries kick in may be in order. Like stated, that will keep the firebox cooler and let the cat do the work for a while. With the FV, if you get the firebox rolling in flame at the start of the burn, the wood certainly burns quicker and the stove much hotter. I think he's on to something...

    Try putting a thermometer on the front of the stove - I have one on the cast iron trim around the FV's window. It's amazing how cool the front of the stove is until the secondaries kick in, it can run at 250 F for a couple hours, then zip up to 500 F after the secondaries are rolling for a while.

    Kochis, you are right about the team at Woodstock - they are first rate and absolutely will want to help on Monday. Please keep us posted...
  3. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    Yeah, it's early yet, lots of variables out there and we haven't heard enough feedback to come to any conclusions but I disagree somewhat on burn times. If someone bought a Fireview expecting consistant 12 hour burns I definetly recommend it because it did it easily for me with a full load of Oak. Your right a 16 hour burn will be stretched out and produce less heat but many here want it to do just that. For a small to medium home this may be the best way to burn this stove so it doesn't cook you out. I would rather have a long even 12-24 hour heat output than have to control the output by loading 2-3 splits every few hours.
  4. firecracker_77

    firecracker_77 Minister of Fire

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    Congratulations. I bought a Woodstock gas model this year, and I'm happy with that company. I wish they would polish the stones, but the castings are nice and the stones do a good job of staying warm for hours like they should.
  5. Nater

    Nater Member

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    Did this mass email go out yet? I never received one...
  6. Highbeam

    Highbeam Minister of Fire

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    "As for the 16 hour burns I do think folks are not completely understanding that. It sounds as if folks want a 16 hour burn throwing lots of heat and I highly doubt that will happen."

    You completely missed the boat. Folks want long burn times period. Of course that means low heat output and that is really the biggest reason that the cat stove exists.

    If people wanted short hot fires then the ultra simple and cheap non-cat stove is superior. Let's hope that WS designed this stove to build upon the low/slow burn success of the smaller stoves.
  7. binko

    binko Member

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    I agree with highbeam. I was expected that the PH would be loaded with a full load of wood, open the damper to establish a well lit fire, then throttle down for a nice even burn for the next 12-16 hours like you get with their other stoves. This is the way our Keystone worked and the way Woodstock has correctly represented their products.
  8. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    Did you change your handle? Confused me for a minute. Is the stove still giving you fits?
  9. HollowHill

    HollowHill Minister of Fire

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    binko/kochis (?) did you contact WS? What did they say?
  10. binko

    binko Member

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    I spoke to them yesterday. It was suggested that I try a smaller opening for the secondary air control (they will send new plate) and to also check inside for proper alignment of the screen under the bypass damper. Apparently this needs to be properly located since it creates some airflow restriction. If it is not in place, it may create a greater draft than desired.
  11. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    So they have different sized secondary air hole plates?
  12. binko

    binko Member

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    They said that there testing indicated the ones that they ship were the optimal for their installation however all installations are different and may require fine tuning the airflow.
    They are trying to help. I hope it works out.
  13. fire_man

    fire_man Minister of Fire

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    I had this conversation with Woodstock at the BBQ. I was concerned the secondary plate did not close further, they said the plate that ships with the stove should work for most people, but there was an easy retrofit using a different plate. The recent post seems to confirm this.
  14. binko

    binko Member

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    Once I have it, I will keep everyone posted of the results
  15. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    This is very interesting and makes sence. You figure most stoves are tested in the lab with about a 15' chimney give or take but what if your chimney is taller or you have excessive draft? Looks like instead of using a pipe damper or rigging your air intake you can install a different sized plate to reduce the air. Good for you Woodstock, most stoves are just built to pass the EPA test with flying colors and never even consider the possiblity of a real world burning.
  16. fire_man

    fire_man Minister of Fire

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    I always wondered how they get the tuning correct on the stove when some of the testing must have been done in warmer temperatures, when the draft might not have been so good.
  17. binko

    binko Member

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    You can create most any draft that you may want with a variable suction fan as well as a barometric damper.
    The design work comes when you can build one that is minimally sensitive to variable conditions. That's where good engineering comes in play.
  18. muscamoot

    muscamoot New Member

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    Hello,

    Did the different secondary air plate help you with a more controlled slow/long burn?

    Thanks.
  19. binko

    binko Member

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    Woodstock suggested various other burn techniques first before considering changing air plate.
    One of the suggestions was to use larger pieces of wood. The other was to add wood them immediately close damper so that the secondary never starts up.
    I was told that if the top temp was over 200 deg, the cat would still be active and I could achieve a long steady burn like that. I did try this for about an hour with the top starting at about 220 and found the cat did not light back off since there was continuous smoke coming from the chimney. Still trying to learn the best way. One of the problems that I am having is that if I close the air damper all the way, I get a smoky smell in the house. Looking at various threads, it appears a few others have had similar smoke concerns. The smell is not overwhelming, but if is definitely there. Not something you want to be exposed to indefinitely.
  20. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    This isn't always the case as you found out. They need a cat probe for this stove. Soapstone has a long lag time with temps and even though you have a 200 degree stove top temp it doesn't mean the cat will take right off with a fresh load of relatively cool wood. Still need to char the wood and get some flame going or the cat will just stall out.
  21. binko

    binko Member

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    I agree. It's just walking that fine line between getting the cat going again and at the same time avoiding the secondaries getting over active.
  22. fire_man

    fire_man Minister of Fire

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    Binko

    Could you please (re)state your flue setup? Are you drafting into a clay liner or into 6" SS? How tall is it and is it exterior?

    I agree the secondaries are strong at the beginning. My splits are very thin (3-4" on most). The best way I have found to tame them is to load the stove only 1/2 way, then snuff it down to zero draft. The secondaries don't last nearly as long, but I still get a long slow burn, I know it's not the ideal way to run the stove, you would like to be able to fully load, set to zero and be in shoulder season mode. But this seems to be the tradeoff with this stove for higher heat output.

    One think I did not like about the Fireview, I was always fighting to get those coals burned down fast on really cold days to make room for more wood. This is not the case with the Progress - I can still get tons of nice coals after >12 hours, but if I open up the draft those coals melt away quickly. There is definitely more air coming into this stove, for better and for worse.
  23. muscamoot

    muscamoot New Member

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    Is this a picture of the secondary air plate being discussed?

    Maybe a good test would be to temporarily block several of these air inlet holes (sheet metal screws) and see if the amount of air could be reduced as needed? Just a thought.

    Attached Files:

  24. scotsman

    scotsman Feeling the Heat

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    I didn't get to read every post in this thread, but I'll tell you one thing--the BMF IS! The weight may say 700+ lbs, but that's the heaviest 700 lbs. I've ever tried to manage. I have a pretty stout neighbor and he and I got it off the trailer and into the house, which was a trip of about 100' all on concrete and then tile. We also moved the FV this way and the BMF is a LOT heavier!! So, BE PREPARED!! If I was guessing, I'd have to go with over 700 without the top, the door, or any of the interior soapstone and no ashpan. All I can say is bring help and NOT wimpy help. That is all . . .
  25. binko

    binko Member

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    I have an outdoor masonry chimney with an 8 X 8" square clay liner. The chimney has a 16 ft rise to the top. I do have an Exhausto fan on top because we have several 90 deg bends in the flue pipe. I can regulate the draft anywhere from .03" WC to a roaring wind tunnel with a rheostat control for the fan. Woodstock suggests .04 to .08" of WC for a draft. Unfortunately I have been running better than twice that in order to not have a smoky smell leaking out of the stove when throttled down. The smell is coming somewhere from the right side of the stove. I am working with the folks at Woodstock to get this solved. Reading other posts, it appears that a number of others are having similar smoky smell issues when operating in similar conditions.
    Needless to say, I can create any draft condition that is required for optimal operation.

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