Napolian Stoves (Stay away from them)

[Ricky K]

I may sound like a broken record but want Buyers to Beware. Last year between a friend my daughter and I bought 3 Napolian Pellet stoves. Out of the 3 only 1 does a halfway decent job heating. Our friends is ok but their fan moter is gone already. That didn't go 5 months. My Induction fan lasted 6 months When I went bact to the dealer he ordered me one but said I had to put it in myself, So much for the warranty. I did install it myself but not being familiar wtih the stove took me pretty well all day as it is a fireplace insert. Now my daughters has been a nitemare. It didn't heat from the very start. I installed the stove per their instructions. Afterwhich the told me unless they installed the stove it wasn't warrantyes. On full bore the stove will only put out 130 degrees air temperature 1 inch from the heat exchanger tubes. Mine puts out about 170 degrees in same distance. We have contacted the Factory rep many times he came once and made all kinds of excuses but none of them made any sense one he said it was an old house. We had just had the whole house blown with insullation and the roof over main house 2 inch Styrofoam and metal roof in addition to existing old insullation. It has Vinayl siding with 3/8 styrofoam under it so I would say it was pretty well insulated
The rep won't tolk to us now because we callt he factory on him. although they have done nothing for us either. The Factory, the rep and the dealer won't do anything for us so we have a stove that won't heat and that is our problen. There is a lot more to this story but don't have the time now. Please if you are buying a stove this year stay away from Osborns in Bucksport, Me. and Napolian stoves made by Wolf Steel in Canada. They are junk I suppose if you are them one out of three isn't bad??"

 

[Fsappo]

Sorry to hear about your experiences. A pellet stove, with all the moving parts and piece's is only as good as the dealer you buy them from. Any stove, even our $5000 Europas can have an issue, even when less than a year old. They key is buying from a hearth retailer your trust. Time after time I get folks in the showroom saying "I bought this stove last year from the tractor store and they don't know how to fix it" At $100 bucks per hour to fix a HD/Lowes/Tractor store stove, that $500 bucks or so they saved NOT buying from a hearth retailer vanishes fast.

What kind of dealer did you buy this from? Was it an established brick and mortar hearth retailer?

 

[MCPO]

Sorry to hear about your experiences. A pellet stove, with all the moving parts and piece's is only as good as the dealer you buy them from. Any stove, even our $5000 Europas can have an issue, even when less than a year old. They key is buying from a hearth retailer your trust. Time after time I get folks in the showroom saying "I bought this stove last year from the tractor store and they don't know how to fix it" At $100 bucks per hour to fix a HD/Lowes/Tractor store stove, that $500 bucks or so they saved NOT buying from a hearth retailer vanishes fast.

What kind of dealer did you buy this from? Was it an established brick and mortar hearth retailer?

More often than not , and for the majority of folks who do have some manual skills and mechanical knowledge that $500 PLUS saved is quite often well worth not buying from an established hearth retailer. Obviously the selection is also limited as many major brands are not available outside of an established hearth store.
Sure, we all know there are some established hearth dealers that are in fact reputable and trustworthy and would stand by the products they sell and many of us here know who they are . However there happens to be a substantial number of uninformed folks out that don`t have a chrystal ball or a clue as to which ones can be trusted. Just because someone is an established b&M hearth dealer doesn`t automatically make him trustworthy does it?
Those folks without any manual skills or knowledge are often at the mercy of an unscrupulous dealer of which there seems to be no shortage of from what I gather.
And take Harman as an example, You are at the mercy of the dealer who has their franchise in your area for repair period! If his service after sales stinks , you are screwed. Try calling their factory for help if the dealer blows you off.
BTW , $100 bucks an hour is kinda outrageous IMO!
In summary, I would have to think the majority of those who do opt for a pellet stove do it to save money and fixing your own stove can save a lot of money . Those who do purchase those stoves from HD and Lowes have a big advantage of not having to pay that $100 per hour. Just pick up the phone and call the factory and they will send you the parts and walk you thru it.
Try that with a Harman.

 

[MCPO]

I see you have had these problems since February. Have you received any satisfaction from your correspondence with the state AG yet (as you wrote)?

"I have spoken with the factory before and in general they will not talk to the retail customer."

I took the words above from one of your previous posts. It sounds just like Harman.
The above statement has to be really discouraging when your dealer refuses to service your stove.
Yup, you are at the dealer`s mercy.
And yeah, these same related service after sales problems such as the OP has posted do happen on occasion whether you buy from an established b & m hearth dealer or not.

 

[Ricky K]

To answer some of the questions for you all. I did buy from what I thought was a reputible dealer that had been in the heating and pumbing business for year and sells wood boiilers & furnices as will as all other pumbing systems. They have several service trucks and technistion. The install and service all they sell. I thought they were a reputible company that would stand behind what they sold But Was Wrong. I have not even had a call from anyone. There was 2 other places selling Napolian stove last year ( Stove Shops) I see this year that they have droped Napolian. I was even told by a dealer last year the suppier in Bangor was junking out the stoves that had problems as they couldn't get the factory rep , Raymond or factory to reemberse them. So the get back some of their money they was selling the parts. I personally would like to see the U.S. band them from importing anything they make. It's like I got your money, Ha. Ha. and I am not going to do anything to back it. Now what are you going to do about it. Unfortunately we have been Had.
You could take them to court but I don't have the money to do that. I just want folks to know if you buy from Napolian or anything made by Wolf Steel Limited your on your own.

 

[Fsappo]

Sorry to hear about your experiences. A pellet stove, with all the moving parts and piece's is only as good as the dealer you buy them from. Any stove, even our $5000 Europas can have an issue, even when less than a year old. They key is buying from a hearth retailer your trust. Time after time I get folks in the showroom saying "I bought this stove last year from the tractor store and they don't know how to fix it" At $100 bucks per hour to fix a HD/Lowes/Tractor store stove, that $500 bucks or so they saved NOT buying from a hearth retailer vanishes fast.

What kind of dealer did you buy this from? Was it an established brick and mortar hearth retailer?

More often than not , and for the majority of folks who do have some manual skills and mechanical knowledge that $500 PLUS saved is quite often well worth not buying from an established hearth retailer. Obviously the selection is also limited as many major brands are not available outside of an established hearth store.
Sure, we all know there are some established hearth dealers that are in fact reputable and trustworthy and would stand by the products they sell and many of us here know who they are . However there happens to be a substantial number of uninformed folks out that don`t have a chrystal ball or a clue as to which ones can be trusted. Just because someone is an established b&M hearth dealer doesn`t automatically make him trustworthy does it?
Those folks without any manual skills or knowledge are often at the mercy of an unscrupulous dealer of which there seems to be no shortage of from what I gather.
And take Harman as an example, You are at the mercy of the dealer who has their franchise in your area for repair period! If his service after sales stinks , you are screwed. Try calling their factory for help if the dealer blows you off.
BTW , $100 bucks an hour is kinda outrageous IMO!
In summary, I would have to think the majority of those who do opt for a pellet stove do it to save money and fixing your own stove can save a lot of money . Those who do purchase those stoves from HD and Lowes have a big advantage of not having to pay that $100 per hour. Just pick up the phone and call the factory and they will send you the parts and walk you thru it.
Try that with a Harman.

By the way, we charge $50 per hour to fix stoves from folks who bought stoves from a stove store. $100 an hour for the off brand big box store stoves

 

[webbie]

To those who have been here for years...this is common knowledge, but perhaps it begs repeating.........

Pellet stoves are fairly complicated machines - and need service and maintenance - both inside and outside of warranty.

They are best purchased from a dealer who has been around a LONG TIME and has been selling and servicing Pellet stoves for a long time (a decade or more).

If you buy a Pellet stove mail order, from a box or hardware store or from a newer (often opportunistic) dealer, then you should consider it highly unlikely that you will ever see a service technician in your home sent by the manufacturer. In other words, ONLY A LOCAL DEALER...and not even all of them...will send an actual service guy to your home to fix a problem.

YOU SHOULD ASK ALL QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS STUFF BEFORE YOU BUY A STOVE.

I have long felt that Pellet stoves, in general, should be more reliable than they are....but experience has proven that this is not the case. Or, it could simply be the vast quantities of stoves which were pumped out in the "crisis" of high oil prices last year......more stoves = more problems.

In some respects you get what you pay for. If you notice in my tour of Travis Industries at:
https://www.hearth.com/visit/travistrip/source/170sealmotors.html

They test EVERY motor they use on all speeds...they have workers that do ONLY this! That costs money.
It also costs money for Harman to send a dealer out to your house. All these things are calculated into the price of a stove.

I am quite handy - and so are many others here. In that case, we can make the decision to troubleshoot, fix and work with the factory or dealers in such matters. In fact, many of us actually ENJOY this!

Sure, no hassle heating is available.....it's that thermostat on the wall. Solid fuel - wood or pellets - takes some work, dedication and....yes, sometimes some hassle.

 

[MCPO]

[quote author="
By the way, we charge $50 per hour to fix stoves from folks who bought stoves from a stove store. $100 an hour for the off brand big box store stoves

Why do you charge more to fix a stove from the big box store? To punish them or simply revenge?

 

[jtakeman]

[quote author="
By the way, we charge $50 per hour to fix stoves from folks who bought stoves from a stove store. $100 an hour for the off brand big box store stoves

Why do you charge more to fix a stove from the big box store? To punish them or simply revenge?

I agree. Same rates should apply for both. No need to punish the end user, Maybe that's all they could afford. If you want to punish the bigbox store boycott them!

 

[imacman]

.....Pellet stoves are fairly complicated machines - and need service and maintenance - both inside and outside of warranty.......They are best purchased from a dealer who has been around a LONG TIME and has been selling and servicing Pellet stoves for a long time (a decade or more).

.....YOU SHOULD ASK ALL QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS STUFF BEFORE YOU BUY A STOVE.

.....In some respects you get what you pay for. If you notice in my tour of Travis Industries at:
https://www.hearth.com/visit/travistrip/source/170sealmotors.html

......They test EVERY motor they use on all speeds...they have workers that do ONLY this! That costs money.

I couldn't agree w/ Craig more.....you need to ask MANY questions about service, do they do service calls themselves, or who does it for them, etc, etc. Yes, you really DO get what you pay for. Being able to get service and technical help was one of the MAJOR reasons behind me buying an Englander stove recently....you can get some parts locally, and having Mike Holton just an email or PM away is the best!

Obviously, being somewhat mechanical & electrical savvy helps me too, but the stoves really aren't all that hard to work on.....common sense rules!

 

[sculptor]

They are best purchased from a dealer who has been around a LONG TIME and has been selling and servicing Pellet stoves for a long time (a decade or more).

This may be good advice for those up north, but my experience here down south is they know very little about what they are selling, because it is almost impossible to find a dealer in business for that long selling pellet stoves down here because they are just now getting popular here. Sure, they have the money to open up a hearth store (selling mostly wood stoves) but when I confront them with questions that I learned to ask on this website (btw), I get the same 'ole answer .... "We don't sell many pellet stoves down here, let me look it up and I'll get back with you on that". 8-/ My first post here was asking about a quad that a dealer had in his showroom for 8 years! I'm a very handy person, and I've learned (through this website and reading other literature) that I know probably as much as those 'selling' stoves down here do. So it's not so cut-and-dry about finding a dealer. They can be the biggest BS artists out there.

I had to circumvent the 'know nothing' dealers here and buy on line and get good advice from macman, Mike Holton, Andy, and Eric. Let's not short change the company that gives advice to the able - do it yourself' ers! ;-)

 

[swalz]

Even if the shop you buy your stove from has a good rep as the one I bought mine from doesn't mean you will get the service down the road. The shop I bought my stove from the owner sold the store and retired, and the guy that owns it now doesn't know to much about the stoves. They are also no longer a Harman dealer, Harman took it away and I was out service and parts when needed. There are now 2 dealers listed for my area and I was able to get an igniter from one of them with in a few weeks but had to install myself. I paid extra to have the service when needed but now I am stuck with doing the work myself or paying for a service call. I can do the work but it bugs me that I now have to pay for service when it should be warrantied. My igniter died in mid December last year and the owner of the shop after about 6 months finally told me he was no longer a Harman dealer and could not get parts anymore. He gave me the name and number to the rep but he was no help said he was going to send a new igniter and never did.

 

[webbie]

Free market - supply and demand, right?

Part of the reason that certain stoves sell for less is that they are sold without the in-home service backup - and as per this thread - without the same level of QC that a more expensive stove may have.

Many dealers - probably MOST - will not even touch a stove that is not bought at their stores.

This may not be a normal practice in the stove businesses, but at the same time it is done every day in the contracting biz. I know contractors who, when they either don't want a job or have to finish what another contractor started, put in a MUCH higher bid than usual...

I don't think Frank will make any bones about it - he is probably trying to teach the customer a lesson. Remember the old sayings:
"It's unwise to pay too much, but, it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much you lose a little money, that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought is incapable of doing what it was bought to do.

The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot. It can't be done.

If you deal with the lowest bidder it is well to add something for the risk you run. And if you do that you will have to pay enough for something better.

There is hardly anything in the world that someone can't make a little worse and sell a little cheaper--- and people who consider price alone are this man's prey."

 

[webbie]

Even if the shop you buy your stove from has a good rep as the one I bought mine from doesn't mean you will get the service down the road. The shop I bought my stove from the owner sold the store and retired, and the guy that owns it now doesn't know to much about the stoves. They are also no longer a Harman dealer, Harman took it away and I was out service and parts when needed. There are now 2 dealers listed for my area and I was able to get an igniter from one of them with in a few weeks but had to install myself. I paid extra to have the service when needed but now I am stuck with doing the work myself or paying for a service call. I can do the work but it bugs me that I now have to pay for service when it should be warrantied. My igniter died in mid December last year and the owner of the shop after about 6 months finally told me he was no longer a Harman dealer and could not get parts anymore. He gave me the name and number to the rep but he was no help said he was going to send a new igniter and never did.

Yeah, that sucks IHMO.

For the amount of money Harman charges, they should have a system which forces other dealers (or them) to pick up the slack for dealers that go out of biz. If you pay more, you expect to get more...service.

 

[summit]

[quote author="
By the way, we charge $50 per hour to fix stoves from folks who bought stoves from a stove store. $100 an hour for the off brand big box store stoves

Why do you charge more to fix a stove from the big box store? To punish them or simply revenge?

I agree. Same rates should apply for both. No need to punish the end user, Maybe that's all they could afford. If you want to punish the bigbox store boycott them!

I'll tell you why:
The dealer made money on the unit he sold, and is obligated to carry work time and spare parts for your stove year round. He stocked the stove, paid for it, sold it, and installed it. he is willing to service it because he made the gravy.
When you need him to service a stove he didn't sell he is: taking guys off the road during the busy season to make at least two trips, 'cause its likely a part he does not stock immediatly availiable...he's working on a headache installed by who knows who, and who knows what has been done, without making any gravy.. just eating plain potatoe for some stove people will buy over the internet or at lowes for less $ over his price every time, and then groan about the cost to take his time time away from his customers to fix your cheap hunk of crap.

 

[Fsappo]

[quote author="
By the way, we charge $50 per hour to fix stoves from folks who bought stoves from a stove store. $100 an hour for the off brand big box store stoves

Why do you charge more to fix a stove from the big box store? To punish them or simply revenge?

Parts are harder to get. These means more office time trying to look up these third world companies and trying to get our hands on manuals and such. Also with the quality of these stoves we have a lot to risk considering working on pellet stoves is like playing hot potato. Last one to touch gets the calls when the next thing goes wrong. We dont charge for follow up service calls but when your dealing with sub par quality stoves, there's certainly a much higher chance of having to go back a second time. Lastly, the majority of the folks we see that bought these stoves did not get a thourough education on using and maintaining a stove, so our guys end up spending time going over that with a customer which we don't charge for. Lastly, some of the profit we make on the initial sale of the stove goes towards the follow up service.

So, it's not revenge, the higher costs, it's how we stay in business so we can be here years from now to take care of our customers.

Edit, I put lastly twice, because I guess I wasnt done typing! I never won any awards for grammar

 

[MCPO]

[quote author="
By the way, we charge $50 per hour to fix stoves from folks who bought stoves from a stove store. $100 an hour for the off brand big box store stoves

Why do you charge more to fix a stove from the big box store? To punish them or simply revenge?

I agree. Same rates should apply for both. No need to punish the end user, Maybe that's all they could afford. If you want to punish the bigbox store boycott them!

I'll tell you why:
The dealer made money on the unit he sold, and is obligated to carry work time and spare parts for your stove year round. He stocked the stove, paid for it, sold it, and installed it. he is willing to service it because he made the gravy.
When you need him to service a stove he didn't sell he is: taking guys off the road during the busy season to make at least two trips, 'cause its likely a part he does not stock immediatly availiable...he's working on a headache installed by who knows who, and who knows what has been done, without making any gravy.. just eating plain potatoe for some stove people will buy over the internet or at lowes for less $ over his price every time, and then groan about the cost to take his time time away from his customers to fix your cheap hunk of crap.

I think some people need to think out of the box they put themselves in.
Since I haven`t seen a whole lot of sensible dealer replies here on this subject , only a few unprofessional excuses from a disgruntled few who probably ought to be taking a course on business practices instead of freqenting the forum. It`s easy to understand why so many stove dealerships go under.
Maybe I could offer some help with a few valid reasons why an established hearth dealer should be more than happy and willing to service a big box stove.

1.. Never assume that big box store stove buyer will buy his next stove there. Or any of his other related items.
2...Fixing his stove without screwing him adds to your customer base and makes him a satisfied individual who will tell others (free advertising , the best kind).
3....You get more walk ins and you do sell other related products don`t you?
4...Repeat business is a always a basic key element for a long term planning to stay in business.
5 You aren`t obligated to carry parts for stoves you don`t sell . He would understand that. No additional initial costs to you.
6....You can charge time expended for a return trip to install the new part. He would expect that.
7....You can mark up a part you obtained for a do it yourselfer. He would expect that.
8..You have an opportunity to meet and talk to these people and inform them why your stoves are better.
9...You have a good opportunity to show them your different stoves on display.
10... Performing service for these individuals allow you an opportunity to sell your reputation and your business practices (hopefully both are good) and instill confidence with these people.
11..And lastly because coming to a persons aid has always been the right thing to do. After all you do sell and repair stoves , don`t you? It`s a mutual and beneficial system for everyone. He gets his stove fixed and you make a profit. Both the dealer and customer expect that.

I`ve never refused electrical service to anyone in need or did I ever charge them more soley because they weren`t a customer of mine. That`s absolutely immoral . It was not a concern if they had their home wired or serviced by others in the past, or where they bought their fixtures.
And I`ve repaired electrical apparatus brands that were not my personal choice and often not readily available and had to be ordered from distributors that I normally didn`t do business with but that was rarely a problem . It`s a fact of doing business. As far as I know all other local electricians ran their businesses with the same attitude as mine. And regarding office time spent looking up parts and ordering, isn`t that factored into owning and running a business?

 

[SXIPro]

My dealer rocks. My stove is about a billion years out of warranty. I am mechanically inclined so when I have issues, I call him up and he'll have me put him on speaker phone and he will literaly walk me through the whole repair/replacement process step by step. His parts are very reasonably priced (I have called around just to be sure), and one time when I drove to his shop to pick something up I asked him about another part I needed which he unfortunately did not stock. He took a part off an existing stove in his shop and handed it to me so I didn't need to wait for him to get one, or to make a return trip. There will be no question who I buy my next stove from. It's funny, I originally bought from him because of price. He was cheaper and I could avoid sales tax from buying in NH. But he has won a customer for life because of service. Now the other dealer I had looked at is much closer to my home, and this guy is a total a-hole. I can't imagine what it would be like having to get help from him.

 

[fluemasterjr]

personally i love to repair big box store stoves the costumers are a lot more appertitive when they are fix and they dont mind paying. granted in order to make any sort of money at it i have to do it in one trip and have inventory on the truck. rick sorry to here about the service that you received from your dealer it is unfortunate. wish there was some way to get you help. our store is a service driven store if we can get parts we fix it i have tried to get parts for napoleon stoves from several distributers and no one would take any time to talk to me once i told the i was not interested in carrying the line.

 

[[email protected]]

to all u people with napoleon stoves they are junk. napoleon co. will not help u in any way i have a nps40 that i am stuck with a few tips i have learned because i had to make this stove work. if your stove does not provide enough pellets to get a high burn on the auger motor shaft there is a coupling with a set screw tighten this because even though the feed light is coming on the moter is not completely turning the augerfast enough. also most of the fan noise is from dirt on the fan blades.take the cover off the fan and clean the blades really good.u must use very low ash pellets and this will lengthen the time between cleaning.i use fireside premium pellets and am getting very good heat and long time between cleaning. but beware of napoleon not a good co. would never buy from them again i sent them a letter about my problems and they would not even answer

 

[DAKSY]

We don't charge our customers any differently, whether or not they buy from us.
We do, however, schedule their service calls differently.
During the start-up months, Sep - Nov, we won't even schedule a service call
to your home, if you didn't buy from us, because we service OUR customers FIRST.
You get the satisfaction of knowing that if you buy an appliance from us, our NFI certified,
factory-trained techs will respond as quickly as we can to resolve your issues.
You don't get it if you buy elsewhere, because of inventory, product specs & all the
other reasons cited in the previous responses.
We WILL get to you eventually, & we WILL resolve your issues, but you will NOT be
at the top of our list unless you buy from us...

 

[MCPO]

We don't charge our customers any differently, whether or not they buy from us.
We do, however, schedule their service calls differently.
During the start-up months, Sep - Nov, we won't even schedule a service call
to your home, if you didn't buy from us, because we service OUR customers FIRST.
You get the satisfaction of knowing that if you buy an appliance from us, our NFI certified,
factory-trained techs will respond as quickly as we can to resolve your issues.
You don't get it if you buy elsewhere, because of inventory, product specs & all the
other reasons cited in the previous responses.
We WILL get to you eventually, & we WILL resolve your issues, but you will NOT be
at the top of our list unless you buy from us...

Your above policy sounds reasonable to me. Established customers are entitled to some level of preferential treatment especially when your service tech dept. is too busy to handle the overflow at that time..
You should consider yourself quite fortunate to be so busy and able to refuse to do service calls for 3 months for those who previously did not buy from you.
Of course this does come at the expense of the opportunity to grow your business and gain customer base (see my above post) but if your competition is light , or non existant , maybe you do have it made indeed.
I`m sure it`s a tough row to hoe making that decision since your service call to an established customer probably won`t result in stove sale and only a service charge where that non customer with an off brand ready for the scrap heap might present a better chance for a stove sale. It`s your call.

 

[EKLawton]

[By the way, we charge $50 per hour to fix stoves from folks who bought stoves from a stove store. $100 an hour for the off brand big box store stoves[/quote]

THAT'S DISCRIMINATION...... IT SOULDN'T MATTER WERE THEY BOUGHT IT YOU CHARGE SO MUCH PER HOUR. If its not the brand you sell you should charge 1/2 for you dont know your way around the stove and you will have several hours into it trying to find the problem.

 

[MCPO]

[By the way, we charge $50 per hour to fix stoves from folks who bought stoves from a stove store. $100 an hour for the off brand big box store stoves

THAT'S DISCRIMINATION...... IT SOULDN'T MATTER WERE THEY BOUGHT IT YOU CHARGE SO MUCH PER HOUR. If its not the brand you sell you should charge 1/2 for you dont know your way around the stove and you will have several hours into it trying to find the problem.[/quote]

Ha,ha,ha. That make some kinda sense. Why charge so much if it`s a simply learning experience?

 

[eschills]

Knock on wood. Into my 2nd year of burning with my NPS40 and no issues yet.........