Narrow kerf problematic for face cuts?

[JSeery]

One new year's resolution of mine was to cut down a large standing dead red oak on my property. It was about 2.5 ft in diameter at the base (pic attached). Unfortunately, I'm only equipped with a Greenworks 40 volt chainsaw, with a 16 inch bar. I love the saw. I keep the chain sharp and it flies through most of my firewood needs. It has a lot of torque for being a battery operated saw (or really any saw), and can cut for a while. It has a narrow kerf, and I've heard that's how they can cut so easily on comparatively little power.

But it was struggling on the face cut for this job. For some reason, it just doesn't like cutting at an angle. I'm thinking that might be due to the narrow kerf? When I am cutting perpendicular to the grain, it's like butter. As soon as I change the angle, the saw starts struggling and I can see the chain sort of wobble on the top of the bar. Or, maybe this is just because the bar I'm using is so short relative to the size of the tree and I would've had that issue with a 16 inch bar even if using a regular gas powered saw?

In any event, I went with a pretty small face cut, and then relied on a whole lotta wedging on my back cut. Because the face cut was smaller than normal, I think my hinge had to be narrower than I would have liked (not sure, I'm definitely a novice in this area).

It got the job done, but I'm wondering if I should invest in a traditional saw if I plan on dropping more trees in the future. I had always thought the Greenworks was all I needed, but now I'm thinking about getting something gas powered if I ever want to tackle a big job like this again. I suppose if I just buy an Echo CS-590 I won't have to worry about whether my issue was the bar length or kerf, but I'd kind of like to know what went wrong here.

 

[DougA]

Even on a pro saw you can have a problem cutting a notch on an angle. If the chain is too loose, it's easy to allow the chain to skip out of the groove in the bar as you start the cut and you only realize it when you don't see the normal chips flying out. This will make cutting dead slow and will ruin your bar as well as stretch the chain.
Apart from that, you are probably much safer and better to rent a pro saw when you have only a few big ones to cut. Not worth wrecking an undersized saw. I've never used a narrow chain other than a cheapie Poulon saw many years ago. Night and day effectiveness. Like working a pro saw with a chain that is way too dull.

 

[ReggieT]

Hmm...a narrow kerf/battery powered saw is great for small wood & limbing, but getting into nasty dead standing Red Oak is a challenge even for some Pro saws with standard kerf.
I'd recommend at least a 50cc saw for General purposes.
If you're pretty handy with your mitts...look at a used Stihl MS260, 026, or MS290 on Craigslist or E-Bay.
They will be more than enough saw for what you're doing.
If you're dead set on a new saw that Echo Timber-Wolf with a 5 yr is hard to beat especially if you have the dealer support in your area.

Have a good one!
Reg

 

[Hasufel]

I've got the 80V/18" version of your saw and think it's great, but I recognize its limitations. Greenworks says the 80V is equivalent to a 35cc gas chainsaw so I suspect yours is a little underpowered for what you described. Red oak can be challenging, especially big stuff. Right now I'm bucking a fallen 18" oak and it's probably nearing the limit of what I would make my saw do. If I had to deal with anything much bigger--especially if I had to fell the tree too--I'd probably rent a real pro saw. For everyday use, however, I absolutely love the convenience of the 80V.

 

[greg13]

Dried oak is tough stuff to cut. I think I would go with a saw with 3/8 chain over a 325 chain if you can find one, the larger chain will cut faster.

 

[xman23]

All saws can be taken to there knees with the condition of the wood and size your cutting. Of course a razor sharp chain is key to performance with any saw. It seams amazing you can do anything to a tree this size with a battery chain saw. I agree you will tear that saw up trying to buck 2' , old dead wood rounds. Rent or buy a pro quality saw and you will see the difference.

 

[Jags]

Nothing against the battery saws - they have there place. Notching and felling an old oak tree ain't that place. I agree with the others - get your hands on a bigger saw for this kind of work.
Oh - and be prepared to buy that bigger saw. Just say'in, cuz you are gonna end up buying it.

 

[JSeery]

Thanks, all. I think you are right. I've got the thing down, but now I need to buck it up. With a 16 in bar, that's gonna be slow going. The fact that lithium ion batteries don't work as well in cold weather doesn't help either. Might as well just recognize the inevitable and get a bigger saw.

 

[woodhog73]

Chain wobbling as you described sounds like it may have been a little loose ? If it was starting to get loose before I imagine the angled notch cut certainly loosened it more with the added pressure on the small chain.

Ive run a 42cc pro gas powered saw which wears a low profile ( very narrow cutters) but in standard 3/8 pitch not .325 and never had any problems as long as the chain is tight.

I agree if your going to be cutting trees that size perhaps upgrade to a bigger saw. If it were me I'd go 60cc for cutting down the bigger stuff and bucking big rounds and still keep the small battery saw around for limbing since it's nice and light.

 

[JSeery]

Chain wobbling as you described sounds like it may have been a little loose ? If it was starting to get loose before I imagine the angled notch cut certainly loosened it more with the added pressure on the small chain.

Ive run a 42cc pro gas powered saw which wears a low profile ( very narrow cutters) but in standard 3/8 pitch not .325 and never had any problems as long as the chain is tight.

I agree if your going to be cutting trees that size perhaps upgrade to a bigger saw. If it were me I'd go 60cc for cutting down the bigger stuff and bucking big rounds and still keep the small battery saw around for limbing since it's nice and light.

I did try tightening the chain when I saw it wobbling, but it didn't seem to make much of a difference. The chain was already quite tight on the bar. I think, as others have said, that I was just pushing the saw beyond its limits. Maybe I was also changing the angle slightly without realizing it. I think the real takeaway here is that I don't really have a kerf or bar length problem, I just need more power generally.

 

[Sean McGillicuddy]

As Tim would say!

 

[JSeery]

Dried oak is tough stuff to cut. I think I would go with a saw with 3/8 chain over a 325 chain if you can find one, the larger chain will cut faster.

Good point. I actually started the job with a 325 chain (the chain the saw came with). It was sharp, but definitely struggling. So I switched to a brand new 3/8 chain for the rest of the job. It was definitely better, but still struggled on the angled face cut. Anyway, I'm happy with this new 3/8 chain and will be using it instead of the 325 going forward.

 

[woodhog73]

Forgot to also mention if the chain was tight perhaps then your bar is starting to get worn slightly. Unless someone is cutting daily for a living , I'd guess most firewood cutters rarely wear out a bar but I'm not sure of the quality level on the bars fitted to electric / battery saws. Nonetheless bars do wear out and the result can be a wobbly and poor fitting chain. Just a side thought

But Ya either way more power is the way to go.

Have a good one.

Edit...,I just read ( after my post above) where you swapped to a new 3/8 chain so my comment about bar wearing out might be non applicable if you put a new bar on as well when you put the 3/8 chain on

A 3/8 pitch chain will only work with a 3/8 drive sprocket and 3/8 bar tip sprocket it's not interchangeable with .325 sprockets. Some bars have replaceable sprocket tips so that the bar itself can interchange if the chains share the same "guage" but the tip sprocket and saw drive sprockets needs to be correct pitch to match the chain. It may seem to fit on the saw but be careful I'd imagine it could be a safety issue not sure though just wanted to point it out in case you were unaware of this and it could possibly effect safety.

 

[JSeery]

Forgot to also mention if the chain was tight perhaps then your bar is starting to get worn slightly. Unless someone is cutting daily for a living , I'd guess most firewood cutters rarely wear out a bar but I'm not sure of the quality level on the bars fitted to electric / battery saws. Nonetheless bars do wear out and the result can be a wobbly and poor fitting chain. Just a side thought

But Ya either way more power is the way to go.

Have a good one.

Edit...,I just read ( after my post above) where you swapped to a new 3/8 chain so my comment about bar wearing out might be non applicable if you put a new bar on as well when you put the 3/8 chain on

A 3/8 pitch chain will only work with a 3/8 drive sprocket and 3/8 bar tip sprocket it's not interchangeable with .325 sprockets. Some bars have replaceable sprocket tips so that the bar itself can interchange if the chains share the same "guage" but the tip sprocket and saw drive sprockets needs to be correct pitch to match the chain. It may seem to fit on the saw but be careful I'd imagine it could be a safety issue not sure though just wanted to point it out in case you were unaware of this and it could possibly effect safety.

I was not aware of this. I just bought the chain because that was what the Oregon site matched up my saw to. I had no idea I also needed to replace the sprocket. I will definitely look into this.

 

[Hasufel]

Good point. I actually started the job with a 325 chain (the chain the saw came with). It was sharp, but definitely struggling. So I switched to a brand new 3/8 chain for the rest of the job. It was definitely better, but still struggled on the angled face cut. Anyway, I'm happy with this new 3/8 chain and will be using it instead of the 325 going forward.

Are you sure you started with a 325 chain? Greenworks says the standard chain for your saw is 3/8 pitch.

 

[woodhog73]

Are you sure you started with a 325 chain? Greenworks says the standard chain for your saw is 3/8 pitch.

That's a good question to bring up I'd just add that the bar should have the sizes stamped on it. Look for something with 3 separate numbers, one will be the pitch , another the guage, and the 3rd would be the number of drive links in the chain. Not sure it will be in that order but those numbers will tell you the exact chain to get. Those numbers are usually stamped on most bars.

Most small saws under 40cc ( which I assume would be your battery saw ) come with a 3/8 " low profile". Don't confuse this with standard 3/8 chain which is much larger and usually just used on bigger saws. The 3/8 "low profile" chain is smaller and lighter than .325 chain so it doesn't rob a small saw of too much power.

 

[Hasufel]

That's a good question to bring up I'd just add that the bar should have the sizes stamped on it. Look for something with 3 separate numbers, one will be the pitch , another the guage, and the 3rd would be the number of drive links in the chain. Not sure it will be in that order but those numbers will tell you the exact chain to get. Those numbers are usually stamped on most bars.

Most small saws under 40cc ( which I assume would be your battery saw ) come with a 3/8 " low profile". Don't confuse this with standard 3/8 chain which is much larger and usually just used on bigger saws. The 3/8 "low profile" chain is smaller and lighter than .325 chain so it doesn't rob a small saw of too much power.

According to the Greenworks 40V manual, the chain pitch is 3/8", the gauge is 0.043", and the bar type is 90PX056X(Oregon). The Greenworks website itself is confusing because it claims the chain gauge is 0.5" (that's one-half inch, wow!). Oregon says the correct chain for the Greenworks 40V is the R56. My 80V/18" takes an S62 but I've got a 0.05" gauge.

Also, one correction to my earlier post (#4 above)--Greenworks claims the 80V chainsaw is a 45cc equivalent, not 35cc. I don't see any gas equivalent quoted for the 40V.

 

[Blowingsmokeupyourchimney]

If you are only sharpening the teeth only, you might check your rakers, you could be taking to little of a bite, even with the teeth sharp. I have only seen one benefit from 3/8 inch chain or the picco/micro, a big saw will stretch and break a light chain. I only use 3/8 semi chisel full skip on my big saws 66 magnum stihl, 039, 360, 026 and on the bucket truck saw (one handed gas saw) and pole saw the micro chain.

I have in the past had problems with teeth not being same length and rakers not being same height, that will can chain wandering.