Need Advice on Stove Choice and Placement

[Hansel]

First post after spending awhile reading the forum and we need a bit of advice from experienced stove users so here goes. We recently bought a 1,800 square foot split foyer that was built in the 80s. The house came with an old Jensen Wood Furnace, which we planned on using to heat this winter. It was hooked into the duct system for the propane furnace. Unfortunately, after the first couple of fires of having the house start to smell like wood smoke, we discovered that it has some serious cracks and needs to be replaced.

We need advice on two issues: 1. What size of stove, 2. Where do we put it.

We are looking at the Englander 30-NC based on all the positive reviews and comments here and elsewhere or the smaller 17-NC version. We generally like a colder house and are fine with the house in the 60s, but we also know that we need to heat the basement and upstairs. Not sure we can put up with temps in the 80+s.

We also need to decide where to put it. We have a chimney that runs from the basement that's lined with clay tile tubes. The chimney sweep we hired suggested that we replace it with stainless in the next couple of years. Both of the installers said it would be fine to install it in the basement using the current chimney. But, I like the idea of putting it in the upstairs living room, which is where we spend the most time. Then running a new stove pipe through the cathedral ceilings there.

So, any recommendations for the size (or for other stoves in that price range that might be better suited for this situation) and where would you put it?

Thanks for any advice.

 

[Sprinter]

Welcome. Just a few general observations: Often basement installs are problematic for various reasons, but if there is good circulation between levels like many splits have, it may work fine. An upstairs install won't heat the lower level well at all. These kinds of designs can make it difficult for a wood stove, since they are essentially space heaters.

If you're heating the whole 1800 sf from the basement, then I would think the 30NC should be fine. You can always adjust the size fire you make depending on conditions and still be efficient if you're careful about keeping the internal stove temps up. Depending on house layout, a smaller stove just heating the upstairs level may be adequate especially if you like it in the 60's but that depends. If installed upstairs, the 30 may indeed be too much but opinions will vary on that.

You'll need to have the chimney inspected and install an insulated stainless flue liner if you want to use the existing chimney.

Frankly, I think your biggest problem now will be finding wood that is adequately dry which means 20-25% moisture content, which is critical for proper operation of any stove. The term "seasoned" is pretty meaningless, so you have to be very careful about what you buy and measure the moisture content with a meter.

Good luck. I'm sure you'll get of lot of good advice here.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

Why not replace the wood furnace?

My advice: Fix/replace wood furnace

 

[Hansel]

We have 6 cords of wood. About 4 are good. The former owners went through 6 with the Jensen.

The original wood furnace was installed incorrectly and if we want to do it right, we'd have to redo the duct work and remodel part of the finished basement. As an example, half of the house's supply ducts turn into returns when the wood furnace was turned on. We just don't have the cash for that right now. So, the wood furnace option is out for now.

I've attached a picture of the current chimney and how the furnace connects to it. It's completely inside the house. Would we need to put an insulated stainless flue liner this year or can we get by with what we have?

Is there a stove between the size of the 30-NC and the 17-NC in that price range that we should look at as well?

 

[shultzinator]

I have a split foyer that is 1250 per level. It was built in early seventys. It has a masonary fireplace in bottom level that Installed a vogelzand performer in wich was not enough stove. I then found a 30nc used and have been happy ever since. Check your attic insulation, the first year I was here i had three inches at the end of heating season I installed 17 inches of cellouse and it cut my wood usage by half.

 

[Hansel]

Insulation is good in the attic. We've put expanding foam in behind the outlets that were leaky on the exterior walls and put foam plate covers. That stopped major drafts. I'm going to retrim the house at some point, so I'll check the insulation around the windows then, but they seem fine. The few walls that I've opened seem to be insulated well.

We've decided to put the stove upstairs, but we are still on the fence about the size. The upstairs is 900 square feet minus the stair opening. Thinking that the 13-NC would be a good size for upstairs and then throw in an electric baseboard in the basement to keep it at 50ish if the stove doesn't get enough heat down there. But the size of the firebox seems small. Anything wrong about burning smaller fires in the NC-30?

 

[Bigg_Redd]

We've decided to put the stove upstairs, but we are still on the fence about the size. The upstairs is 900 square feet minus the stair opening. Thinking that the 13-NC would be a good size for upstairs and then throw in an electric baseboard in the basement to keep it at 50ish if the stove doesn't get enough heat down there. But the size of the firebox seems small. Anything wrong about burning smaller fires in the NC-30?

2 things

1) You will never get heat to go down stairs no matter how big the stove is or how much heat it pushes

2) IMO, even running a big stove at 1/2 capacity it will still cook you out of 900 sq ft

 

[Sprinter]

If it's for upstairs 800 sf, the 13 would be plenty. Especially if you're heating the downstairs. Some of that heat will make it upstairs too.

One thing to keep in mind on the 13 NC is that it requires a hearth pad with an R 2.0 insulation rating.

 

[Hansel]

So, it sounds like the 30 is out. I read about the Englander Madison. Does it actually exist? Can you get it anywhere? Seems like it would be the way to go for us, plus I wouldn't need to build such an well-insulated hearth pad.

 

[Sprinter]

So, it sounds like the 30 is out. I read about the Englander Madison. Does it actually exist? Can you get it anywhere? Seems like it would be the way to go for us, plus I wouldn't need to build such an well-insulated hearth pad.

Not too much known about the Madison and it seems to be hard to find one. Here's a thread from last month about them if it helps.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/englander-madison-stove.131845/

However, I think it's a 2.4 cf stove which would be too much for 900 sf.

 

[Hansel]

Looks like Northern Tools has the Madison in stock, so I can get it or the 13-NC. We're talking winters that reach into the -20°F (real temps not wind chill) for weeks at a time where I'm at and it's not unusual to get into the -30s. Still too much for 900 upstairs?

 

[Grisu]

Looks like Northern Tools has the Madison in stock, so I can get it or the 13-NC. We're talking winters that reach into the -20°F (real temps not wind chill) for weeks at a time where I'm at and it's not unusual to get into the -30s. Still too much for 900 upstairs?

At those temps probably not but how often do you get them? Best for you would probably be a catalytic stove but I can completely understand if that's not in the budget. Maybe check also out the Pacific Energy True North and the medium size Drolet stoves; those are ~2 cu ft. If you get the Madison you will probably not fill the firebox very often.

To get the Madison go to your nearest Englander stove retailer and ask that they do a special order for you. Print out and take the info from the website with you.

 

[Sprinter]

If your're going to put it upstairs and you will be heating the basement electrically, and the house is pretty well insulated, plus you like it on the cool side anyway, I'd keep the stove under 2 cf. The Pacific Energy True North or similar may be a good choice when budget is important. I wouldn't necessarily cross off the 13NC because of the hearth requirements. There are ways to construct such a hearth. It could be a good choice in spite of that.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

Looks like Northern Tools has the Madison in stock, so I can get it or the 13-NC. We're talking winters that reach into the -20°F (real temps not wind chill) for weeks at a time where I'm at and it's not unusual to get into the -30s. Still too much for 900 upstairs?

Every stove is a compromise no matter what you choose. A big(ger) stove will cover the -30 snaps just fine, but cook you out the rest of the time. A small(er) stove will do just fine most of the time but you'll have to find a sweatshirt for the -30 days. I think it's best to choose a most-of-the-time stove rather than a worst-case-scenario stove.

JMHO

 

[Hansel]

This is all starting to sink in. Are there any budget-range catalytic stoves on the market that I should research/look at?

 

[Bigg_Redd]

This is all starting to sink in. Are there any budget-range catalytic stoves on the market that I should research/look at?

Not that I am aware of

EDIT - I know you covered this already, but. . . get a couple estimates on the furnace re-fit. I suspect that the difference in fixing the duct work and the purchase and installation of a new wood stove are not as great as you might think.

 

[Hansel]

The better half has ruled out the wood furnace in the basement. She didn't like the original one and doesn't want a new one even if we were able to fix the duct work cheaply.

 

[Mainely Saws]

One other thing to keep in mind is that typically the smaller the stove, the more often it needs to be reloaded . Are overnight burns important ?

 

[begreen]

Does the 1800 sq ft include the basement area too?

The Englander Madison is right sized, though it's a new stove that we have no full season track record for. For 1800 sq ft the 30NC would not be too large a stove. But if you want smaller, PE makes a 2 cu ft value stove called the True North TN19 that would work ok. It sells for under $1000. If the budget can handle it, I would consider upgrading to their Super27 instead for it's better design and longer burn time. It is also available in fancier dress as the Spectrum and the Alderlea T5. In the Drolet line their midsized Escape 1800 is also worth looking at. The Drolet HT2000 is their full sized beast and the rough equivalent to the 30NC.

 

[Hansel]

Overnight burns would be great if we could get them without overheating the first floor. The 1800 sq. ft. includes the basement, so it's 900 up and down. I need to head to Duluth on Tuesday, and I'm hoping to get to Northern Tools and a PE dealer to see the stoves in person.

I'm curious about the square foot ratings that I've seen on the stoves. Some companies give narrow square foot ranges and others give large ranges. For example, the Dorlet Escape 1800 gives a large range of 500 to 2,100 and the Englander 13-NC gives a narrower range of 1,200 to 1,800. Why the difference when all the other stats are pretty close? Should I be taking the square footage ratings with a grain of salt?

 

[begreen]

Yes, sq ftg ratings are somewhat marketing driven. There are too many variables to come up with a simple number. Generally you can go by the area to be heated, average ceiling height, home insulation and the climate zone. In your case there are some confounding factors like: will the stove be in an open area that is close to or open to a large open passage way to upstairs? If the stove area is wide open and there is a large open stairway nearby, in your climate zone I would look for a 2.5 to 3 cu ft stove. In the budget range I'd focus on the Englander 30NC and the Drolet 2000HT. You could also put in a PE Summit, but it will cost twice as much. The Drolet has an easier hearth requirement than the Englander, but they are both good heaters. If the floor is cement then this is a non-issue. If the stove area is somewhat closed off an most of the heat is going to be trapped on one floor then look at 2 cu ft stoves instead.

 

[Grisu]

Should I be taking the square footage ratings with a grain of salt?

More like a pound. Since there is no standard, it seems often as the sales department comes up with those numbers. It is better to compare firebox sizes. More wood fitting in the stove means more heat coming out.

 

[Cockshutt]

Another thing about a small firebox is that you are stuck with a small firebox! I just took a pickup load of wood to my in laws because it won't fit in the POS currently attached to my chimney! Have a look at the door sizes too. Won't be good at all if your wife gets burned trying to fit a log through a small door.

 

[Hansel]

I have it narrowed down between the Pacific Energy TN19 and the Drolet Blackcomb. We're going to put this upstairs in the living room/kitchen/dinning room area with cathedral ceilings instead of the basement and heat the basement separately. We spend all of our time upstairs (except for my home office in the basement), and we want to have the stove where we can watch it and hang out by it, etc... Plus, the area in the basement with the chimney isn't in the back corner and far away from the staircase, in the laundry/utility room, so we don't think it'll work well down there anyway. But, mainly we want to hang out by the fire.

Any good reason to pick one over the other? I've read as much about both on here as I can and the main difference I can figure is you can load the TN19 north-south while the Blackcomb is only east-west.

 

[Ash]

S

I have it narrowed down between the Pacific Energy TN19 and the Drolet Blackcomb. We're going to put this upstairs in the living room/kitchen/dinning room area with cathedral ceilings instead of the basement and heat the basement separately. We spend all of our time upstairs (except for my home office in the basement), and we want to have the stove where we can watch it and hang out by it, etc... Plus, the area in the basement with the chimney isn't in the back corner and far away from the staircase, in the laundry/utility room, so we don't think it'll work well down there anyway. But, mainly we want to hang out by the fire.

Any good reason to pick one over the other? I've read as much about both on here as I can and the main difference I can figure is you can load the TN19 north-south while the Blackcomb is only east-west.

Seen your from down by duluth and just a heads up but menards had a 11% off sale and they sell the drolet's but it might have ended Saturday