Need help on Piping Redo

[Blevesque]

Here is a drawing as it sits right now. I am trying to redo my piping to try and make this thing work better. This is conventional New Yorker Boiler. I know I need to change the boiler but that isn't going to be for a few years so I need to make it somewhat functional. I already have a tekmar 156 that I would like to use for charging of the tanks. I also would like to get a termavor to protect the boiler (where on the drawing should I put this). I am looking for any and all ideas. Thanks, Brian

 

[stee6043]

I think you could trim a few circ's out of this layout. Here are a few quick thoughts.

-Traditionally, your "dump zone" should be gravity fed and should not require a circ. Your dump zone need to come back in on the return side, I assume it's just left off the diagram.

-I don't think you need a circ at both boilers. Can you send all hot water from wood boiler through your oil boiler and simply have it turn on when the incoming water drops below your setpoint? This would eliminate a circ. Your return protection will simply be a loop betweel wood boiler supply and wood boiler return, right at the boiler itself.

-I assume you are planning for significantly more expansion tank capacity than the little one that comes with the boiler? I assume this is a closed/pressurized system? If not, disregard my comment about expansion tanks and you may want to add where your exchangers are in the system.

That's about it for my first pass...

 

[Blevesque]

I think you could trim a few circ's out of this layout. Here are a few quick thoughts.

-Traditionally, your "dump zone" should be gravity fed and should not require a circ. Your dump zone need to come back in on the return side, I assume it's just left off the diagram.

The plan when I installed this was to run a garage unit heater from the boiler overheat aquastat. This is not installed.
-I don't think you need a circ at both boilers. Can you send all hot water from wood boiler through your oil boiler and simply have it turn on when the incoming water drops below your setpoint? This would eliminate a circ. Your return protection will simply be a loop betweel wood boiler supply and wood boiler return, right at the boiler itself.

I was thinking about tying the oil boiler into the secondary loop (like bioheat shows in one of there diagrams)

-I assume you are planning for significantly more expansion tank capacity than the little one that comes with the boiler? I assume this is a closed/pressurized system? If not, disregard my comment about expansion tanks and you may want to add where your exchangers are in the system.

Expansion is all set (it's the only thing I got right on this whole project) I have about 100 Gal expansion.

That's about it for my first pass...

 

[Blevesque]

Here are some pictures for a visual.

The supply from the wood boiler is piped to the taps about 1' down from the top of the tanks. This is a picture from my first failed attempt!

Thanks for any and all help. Brian

 

[Blevesque]

Alright here is a new layout. P-1 will be controlled by a tekmar 156 controller to charge tanks. The 3-way Diverter Valve will be controlled by an aquastat on the wood boiler, once the boiler drops below 140 it will take the heat from the tanks. Please let me know what needs to be changed. Or if none of it makes sense please tell me. Thanks for any help. Brian

 

[Blevesque]

Anyone have any words of wisdom?

 

[stee6043]

I still think you could get rid of several circs....

If you were to plumb a "primary loop" of sorts from the wood boiler to the tanks and make your heat loads a "secondary" loop you could accomplish the mixing control you desire with a Danfoss valve instead of the three way valve. This would save one circ, one aquastat and the three way valve. Although it sounds like maybe you want all the gadgets just for kicks? ha...

Questions - Have you run with this storage setup before, in a different config? What is your goal and how did you decide on 400 gallons? What is your heat load?

 

[Morgan]

Just curious, what program are you using for your schematics?

 

[Blevesque]

Thanks for the reply. I would not mind losing some circ's because it is an Electrial hog as it is right now. I got the tanks free so that is the reason for the 400 gal. I have attached the bioheat diagram, but have a couple questions. Why are there two termavors? What is the purpose of the Zone Valve (ZV-1). The way I see it water gets drawn from both boiler and tanks, and when the system is satisfied C-1 shuts off and ZV-1 closes and tanks get charged? Is the charging done by thermosyphon because there is no pump for the wood boiler? Brian

 

[Blevesque]

Morgan the program is Autodesk MEP 2010.

 

[stee6043]

I can't seem to launch that image so I can read it in "full res". Can you attach it differently?

 

[chuck172]

Brian, the second termovar is used as a diverter valve. When a small zone return temperature gets high, I believe 170* or whatever the thermostat on the termovar is set at, the termovar recirculates the return water thereby cooling it and saving heat. It kindof short circuts the pump with the same return water.

 

[Blevesque]

Sorry I've been away from a computer the last few days. Stee Here is the link to Bioheats website it should make it easier to zoom in. http://www.woodboilers.com/admin/uploads/contentimages/files/FHG Plumbing.pdf look on page 4. Thanks for the explaination Chuck!