Need help with my Napoleon 1101 insert

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jadm

New Member
Dec 31, 2007
918
colorado
Thanks to those who responded to my first question on this forum. I am also a new one to this site and have learned volumes reading through articles etc. that I have found here. I don't feel so alone anymore in dealing with lousy dealers who don't know anything about the products they sell yet will do anything to make a sale after which they don't want anything to do with you especially if there is a problem......I now know I am not the only one trying to burn up coals more effectively. Realize I was blaming my Napoleon 1101 on that thinking it was the size of the fire box.

So now I am rethinking my earlier decision to replace my Napoleon with another insert sporting a larger fire box. I still would like front mounted blowers. For now I am trying to catch some of the dust that is drawn in by using screen material in front of the vents that pull air into the blower. Time will tell how well it is working.

I've read through the comments on the coal issue and tried some of what I read but don't feel like I have a handle on this at all. In the morning the fire is started up with kindling, fat wood and small splits of pine. Once that has warmed up the flue a piece of hard wood (or 2 depending on the size of wood) is added. I have a magnet type thermometer on the front of my insert and I try to get the temp up to 500 for at least 1/2 an hour. Once the wood has all caught I begin to close the damper down slowly working my way down to low which gives me a good hot internal temp that will last that amount of time. After about 1 1/2 hours or 2 hours the logs are at the stage where they crumble into chunks when touched and the internal temp drops and continues to drop.

One of my questions is - Should I leave the damper at low or should I open it to allow more air in to get more burn out of the coals? We are at home all day so I like to keep things warm at about 72-74 degrees so when the internal temp drops so does our room temp. If I try loading it up again with 3 or 4 logs things get pretty crowded with the coals and by 4 or 5 p.m. there isn't much room for new logs so I've ended up scooping them out and hating doing it because it feels like such a waste of fuel. If I wait too long and the internal temp drops below 300 degrees it is also harder for new wood to catch and sometimes it will smoke until it catches...not good for the environment. Anyway, when I don't open the damper the coals don't seem to burn down and they certainly don't maintain the room temp. When I do open the damper up they do burn up a bit more but the temp seems to drop faster. Kind of a no win proposition.

I have also tried starting a fire like I stated above but when it comes time for me to add more logs I have added only one log at a time. If I use red oak I can get a 500 degree temp for awhile again and the coals seem to burn more too this way so that at 4 or 5 p.m. I still have coals but not quite so many and I can still feed one log at a time. Problem with this method is when an added log doesn't get the temp. up. I imagine you get the drift of what I'm trying to say....Should I stop trying to figure this out and, hence stop driving myself crazy, just scoop the dang coals out or is there a solution for me and my Napoleon?
 
perplexed said:
I've ended up scooping them out and hating doing it because it feels like such a waste of fuel.
50% of the energy is still in the wood when the flames go out. If you want to burn down your coal bed put something on it that burns hot and fast and doesn't produce coals; maybe a bit of old pallet wood or some extra well seasoned pine.
 
Using paragraphs will increase your feedback.

I tried to read your post but went cross eyed within a few seconds.
 
Thanks for feedback. When I typed it up it had paragraphs but when I posted it they disappeared. I am new to this. So how do I send my posts as they are printed originally?
 
It might be the type of browser you are using, but sticking with another insert???... why not go to a stove and end all the worries?
 
If I keep trying I'll get the hang of this. I am a first time 'forumer' so bear with my learning curve...

How do you keep your blower clean? How often do you vacuum it and how do you get to it to clean it as it is rear mounted? My first blower broke down after 1 1/2 season and I want to make this last.

How do you load your insert on cold days-below 30 degrees - when you are home all day?

How do you manage coals?

How do you use your damper throughout burn cycles?

How hot do you run your insert?

How low do you let temp. drop before adding wood? (Using an external front mounted thermometer)

I've double spaced this so it's easy to read now to see what it does when I send it...
 
Tried the stove route but we don't have room in the room we have the insert in. Our hearth is too small and extending it would cut into the room too much. My husband already complains about the insert....I'm trying to keep low key and warm. I did just post a new post more to the point and double spaced...I'm learning!
 
perplexed said:
Thanks for feedback. When I typed it up it had paragraphs but when I posted it they disappeared. I am new to this. So how do I send my posts as they are printed originally?

Double spaces between paragraphs make them more readable. You can go back and add them using the edit button. I've done this for you this time. I've also merged the other thread so that you can get more direct answers.
 
perplexed said:
Tried the stove route but we don't have room in the room we have the insert in. Our hearth is too small and extending it would cut into the room too much. My husband already complains about the insert....I'm trying to keep low key and warm. I did just post a new post more to the point and double spaced...I'm learning!

Does the stove have an elevated hearth? A hearth extension doesn't have to be at the same height as the elevated hearth. It can be flush at floor level. This can look like a very intentional border around the hearth.

As to wood burning, have you had a chance to view the Canadian video? It has several helpful hints.

http://www.ec.gc.ca/cleanair-airpur/default.asp?lang=En&n=8011CD70-1
 
Just watched video. My problem is still the coals that don't burn down like hers did. House and stove temp. drop and by late afternoon too many coals and not enough room for enough new wood to boost internal temp up to help continue the burn on the coals and raise the house temp back up into the 70's.

Back to damper question and how far to open it up as coals burn down. Does a more open damper burn up the coals faster and still maintain heat or leaving it closed way down which does maintain the stoves internal temp a bit longer.

Anybody else out there with a Napoleon 1101 have this problem??? Or is it just me and I need more practice?? These coals are really driving me crazy because I can't figure it out. What works one day doesn't seem to work the next...
 
Just watched video. My problem is still the coals that don't burn down like hers did. House and stove temp. drop and by late afternoon too many coals and not enough room for enough new wood to boost internal temp up to help continue the burn on the coals and raise the house temp back up into the 70's.

Back to damper question and how far to open it up as coals burn down. Does a more open damper burn up the coals faster and still maintain heat or leaving it closed way down which does maintain the stoves internal temp a bit longer.

Anybody else out there with a Napoleon 1101 have this problem??? Or is it just me and I need more practice?? These coals are really driving me crazy because I can't figure it out. What works one day doesn't seem to work the next...

Hearth question: Elevated hearth. Units I looked at - Hearthstone Phoenix and Regency Hearth burner- were way too big. The room fireplace is located in is approx. 11x14 with furniture taking up a lot of space. Those units would look way out of place in such a small area.
 
Hi! I just read your post again. Your appliance is more or less the same as mine (check my signature) but mine has a bigger firebox (2.3 cf minus about 10/15% for the deflector plate) so maybe the way I use it might help you. When I first got it I couldn't even manage a 4 hour burn and rekindle it. Now I can get more than double that. Last night I started it from cold at 11pm when I arrived home. Got up at 2:30am and it still had heavy to moderate flames and at 8:30am it had few coals but the ones it did have were enough to get a new burn going without kindling in about 10 minutes.

First, when I start from cold I don't bother with a kindling fire. I empty the ash, sieve it and return anything left to the firebox, spread across the whole base. I load it north/south and rest the wood (olive) on the ash lip so air passes underneath. 3 pcs of extra dry kindling (12" x 1" x 1/4") in the centre. Either side of that a 1.5" round, the whole lot a squeezed together pretty tight. On top an 8 or 9" round. Either side of that I fill the rest of the firebox with rounds of various diameters between 2 and 5", filling in all the gaps like a jigsaw puzzle. In all about 35/40lbs of wood. I know most people here say they use paper, etc. to start the fire but I use a firelighter placed below the strips of kindling. A firelighter allows focusing the core from which the fire starts and the precision that comes with it. Primary at 2/3 open and light the firelighter. After 15 mins primary to 1/3 open and after about another 15 mins primary closed. Times are approximate and depend how the fire is responding.

Now the fire is burning leave the primary completely closed and resist any desire to touch the fire, poke it etc. If you start touching it, poking it, breaking up bits, etc. you are making all the fuel collapse and this in turn stops oxygen reaching the coals and makes them last forever or even go out.

Because I use various sizes of wood each piece of wood finishes its pyrolysis phase and enters the "coal" phase it different times. This means most of the coal is consumed while there is still plenty of flame/heat in the firebox.

I can reload without kindling any time up to eight hours later, after which I might need one piece of kindling. I just pull the largest coals to the centre/front where my firelight was and then load as before and start another cycle. Damper open 2/3rds etc.

Never feed the fire a few pieces at a time; its a waste of fuel and you will not get the full energy out of it. Instead always burn in full cycles. And remember: to be efficient the firebox needs to be hot. If you open the door and put in a few bits it start to run inefficiently and needs quite some time to recover. Even if you just open the door to poke the fire it's going to take it at least 15 minutes to recover fully. This is even more important in the coal phase because the coals aren't making a lot of heat but need a very hot environment to keep them burning efficiently.

In my opinion if you need to load that fire more than once every 6 hours to maintain the temp you desire the firebox is too small.
 
Thanks for your input. My fire box is smaller - about 1.7cf - which is what the dealer recomd. and I knew nothing and believed him. I know better now especially since finding this site. Yesterday I watched video about top down fire building so when I got up I tried that. It is my experiment for the day but today is a lot warmer - 40's - and I don't have the coal problems on warmer days because one good fire lasts pretty long.

I will try your method tomorrow. One concern is if I load it up so tight the temp. will get too high - out of the burn zone. I'm paranoid of the high temps doing damage to my stove... If I load with 3 loosely packed logs that are dry hard wood the temp gets up to 550 degrees and will stay there for about 1/2 hour to an hour depending on outside temps etc and then it settles at about 400 and will stay there varying lengths of time too. On cold days it goes down more quickly and then I have the issues with coals. Too many to stack in the front....

Trying the top down method today is working but rather slowly. I still have damper wide open and it's been about 45min. When I try to damper down fire begins to go out and struggle for air

Wish I did have a larger fire box. I do keep looking at other models and toy with the idea of stove because from what I've been reading they seem to put out more heat than inserts. Anybody out there have a stove installed partially in their fireplace??? The models I have looked at are just so big as I stated above but I keep coming back to the Hearthstone Phoenix because of it's looks and what other people have said about them which is generally positive. Just afraid it would look way out of place, way to big for our room....

So I keep trying with what I have and I continue to read and learn more everyday.

Thanks to all who have responded!
 
perplexed said:
One concern is if I load it up so tight the temp. will get too high - out of the burn zone. I'm paranoid of the high temps doing damage to my stove.
Well first it's not a stove, it's an insert. Your going to have a hard job overheating it because it has air circulating around the exterior of the firebox.

Also my guess is you are thinking like this because your wood isn't big enough. Big bits have a lower surface area to weight ratio so don't burn that quick. Another thing to remember is if you fill the firebox the amount of fire/heat is still regulated by the primary air. Putting more wood in won't make it burn faster. I've also noticed that with larger wood I'm getting a much more intense secondary burn that lasts a lot longer while the primary burn is less intense.
 
How do I end this topic? I've changed tactics and don't need this one anymore.

Thanks for replies!
 
You could wrap it up with a conclusion of what you changed and how it helped.
 
Wrapping this thread up and moving on.

Thanks to everyones' input. I have been reading a lot of the info. on this site since I found it and started using it. My brain is on overload and I imagine it will take awhile for it to digest all that I have learned.

You have all given me great ideas/experience. You have allowed me to open up my options as to alternate ways to fill my fireplace.

Right now I am giving a lot of consideration to installing a Hearthstone Phoenix on the fireplace and have opened a new topic with my questions/concerns about that.

Thanks for letting me know I am not the only one who has had dealer problems or problems with burning down coals. Practice, practice, practice...I have only been at this for 3 years now...

Consider this topic ended!!!!

Thanks so much again!
 
Okay, I've typed in a closing statement 2 times and when I post it it doesn't show. What's happening here?

I type it all in and then hit submit post but nothing is showing up????
 
No need to reply as I got my response to post...

Now I really am closing!
 
bokehman,

Sorry to reuse this old thread, but I want to make sure I understand your procedure correctly. You fully load your firebox before lighting your fire? Does this mean that after you light the fire you never have to open the door? Is all of your wood north-south or is it a mix of north-south and east-west? Why do you use rounds and not splits? When you say you use a firelighter, what exactly is that? (The only firelighters I'm familiar with are wax and sawdust products (e.g. http://www.duraflame.com) which are not supposed to be used in wood stoves or inserts.)
 
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