Neo 2.5 hard to get going - ? insufficient draw

[DenisT]

Hi
We have a PE Neo 2.5 now three years old, and having problems getting the fire started. Need to leave the door open for extended period (20mins or so), closing the door often results in chamber filling with smoke and flames going out. Have had the flue swept, perhaps a small improvement but not yet where we would like it to be. Along the way trying to find cause, have discovered that 1) installers failed to put a baffle seal in (rectified this); 2) there are gaps around the flue where is sits into the top of the heater (can pass a fine wire through two sections of this into the fire chamber, no fire cement but not sure if there should be); 3) the baffle seems to be a bit out of shape across its bottom - between 5 and 10mm sag; 4) the distance from the top of the heater to the top of the flue is 3m - my reading of the standard here in Australia is that there should 4.6m from the floor to the top of the flue, so I'm short at least 60cm, and 5) we get black on the left hand side of the glass - the dollar bill test shows that it will slip through the lower part of the left side, and the left side of the bottom.
My reading of the forum and elsewhere suggests that apart from needing a new door seal, I may need to extend the flue - looking at a vertical discharge anti-downdraft flue hat cowl which potentially would give me the required additional height and improve draw.
I'm not sure if I need to do anything about the gaps around where the flue seats into the heater.

Any comments/suggestions would be most welcome.

Thanks.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Wow, this is very thorough!

You said that the stove has been running for 2.5 years. Has it always been hard to light or is this something new?

Adding chimney will certainly help with draft. It does seem a little short. How is the chimney made? Is it a metal chimney or is it masonry? What is the size and shape of the flue? Why are you looking to add chimney height with a special anti downdraft chimney cap?

Little gaps around the flue collar shouldn’t hurt anything, although you can fill them with cement if you want to. It can’t hurt.

The new gasket being replaced is good, but isn’t the source of a hard y to I start fire. Too much air leads to uncontrollable fires.

One glaring thing I didn’t see mentioned is the moisture content of the wood you’re burning. Wet wood leads to hard to start fires that can easily go out. Have you measured the moisture content of your wood?

 

[DenisT]

Hi
We have a PE Neo 2.5 now three years old, and having problems getting the fire started. Need to leave the door open for extended period (20mins or so), closing the door often results in chamber filling with smoke and flames going out. Have had the flue swept, perhaps a small improvement but not yet where we would like it to be. Along the way trying to find cause, have discovered that 1) installers failed to put a baffle seal in (rectified this); 2) there are gaps around the flue where is sits into the top of the heater (can pass a fine wire through two sections of this into the fire chamber, no fire cement but not sure if there should be); 3) the baffle seems to be a bit out of shape across its bottom - between 5 and 10mm sag; 4) the distance from the top of the heater to the top of the flue is 3m - my reading of the standard here in Australia is that there should 4.6m from the floor to the top of the flue, so I'm short at least 60cm, and 5) we get black on the left hand side of the glass - the dollar bill test shows that it will slip through the lower part of the left side, and the left side of the bottom.
My reading of the forum and elsewhere suggests that apart from needing a new door seal, I may need to extend the flue - looking at a vertical discharge anti-downdraft flue hat cowl which potentially would give me the required additional height and improve draw.
I'm not sure if I need to do anything about the gaps around where the flue seats into the heater.

Any comments/suggestions would be most welcome.

Thanks.

Thanks for your response. Its a metal 6" internal diameter flue, stainless steel internal and I think 10" external gal on the outside above the roof. Its never been easy to get going and discussion with the supplier has focused on chimney sweeping as the solution (done). You are right about the quality of the wood - no I haven't got a moisture meter but it is on my agenda, given a couple of seasons of difficulty sourcing good wood here, with bush fires, floods and what not. We do start with dry kindling though, and still find that shutting the door too soon just shuts the fire down even before we put on wood of any size. I have checked the various air inlets and they seem to be clear. We try to keep draughts out of the house but are aware that there needs to be some airflow and there is a window nearby which we crack open.

With regard to the anti-downdraft chimney cap - its something that I have come across as a possibility although some local advice received that this would not really help. Perhaps just another length of flue would do - would certainly be cheaper.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I’d just add a length of flue.

 

[TomMcDonald]

Hi
We have a PE Neo 2.5 now three years old, and having problems getting the fire started. Need to leave the door open for extended period (20mins or so), closing the door often results in chamber filling with smoke and flames going out. Have had the flue swept, perhaps a small improvement but not yet where we would like it to be. Along the way trying to find cause, have discovered that 1) installers failed to put a baffle seal in (rectified this); 2) there are gaps around the flue where is sits into the top of the heater (can pass a fine wire through two sections of this into the fire chamber, no fire cement but not sure if there should be); 3) the baffle seems to be a bit out of shape across its bottom - between 5 and 10mm sag; 4) the distance from the top of the heater to the top of the flue is 3m - my reading of the standard here in Australia is that there should 4.6m from the floor to the top of the flue, so I'm short at least 60cm, and 5) we get black on the left hand side of the glass - the dollar bill test shows that it will slip through the lower part of the left side, and the left side of the bottom.
My reading of the forum and elsewhere suggests that apart from needing a new door seal, I may need to extend the flue - looking at a vertical discharge anti-downdraft flue hat cowl which potentially would give me the required additional height and improve draw.
I'm not sure if I need to do anything about the gaps around where the flue seats into the heater.

Any comments/suggestions would be most welcome.

Thanks.

Hey mate, fellow Australian Neo 2.5 owner here and experienced similar issues.

You'll need another metre of flue pipe - i now have 5 metres of flue and get good draught but still have to have the door open for at least 10 minutes even with bone dry wood.

There should be a fibrous gasket between the flue and the stove. Our heater came with two and I have destroyed both whilst removing flue for various reasons. I don't know if you can get them from Pivot.

There should also be a fibrous gasket between the baffle and the baffle's inlet pipe at the back of the stove. You can get those from Pivot.

You can unscrew the door latch on the stove (not on the door) and remove one or both of the shims that are behind it to create a more snug fit for the door. The issue with the blackened glass on the left of the door is ongoing, and related to a (from what I can deduce) poor firebox design where there is a 'combustion dead spot' on the left portion of the firebox. Next time you light it see if you notice the wood in the left 5th or so of the firebox having extreme difficulty combusting.

I've not been impressed with this heater since we bought it in 2020 and may end up replacing with something else.

Cheers,

Tom.

 

[DenisT]

Hey mate, fellow Australian Neo 2.5 owner here and experienced similar issues.

You'll need another metre of flue pipe - i now have 5 metres of flue and get good draught but still have to have the door open for at least 10 minutes even with bone dry wood.

There should be a fibrous gasket between the flue and the stove. Our heater came with two and I have destroyed both whilst removing flue for various reasons. I don't know if you can get them from Pivot.

There should also be a fibrous gasket between the baffle and the baffle's inlet pipe at the back of the stove. You can get those from Pivot.

You can unscrew the door latch on the stove (not on the door) and remove one or both of the shims that are behind it to create a more snug fit for the door. The issue with the blackened glass on the left of the door is ongoing, and related to a (from what I can deduce) poor firebox design where there is a 'combustion dead spot' on the left portion of the firebox. Next time you light it see if you notice the wood in the left 5th or so of the firebox having extreme difficulty combusting.

I've not been impressed with this heater since we bought it in 2020 and may end up replacing with something else.

Cheers,

Tom.

Thanks Tom

I will follow up with the fibrous gasket for the flue - have sourced the baffle gaskets from Pivot. Looks like an additional length of flue is the next step, and fiddle with the door before replacing the gasket which in itself looks OK. From what I read about these the blackened door issue is fairly common. Hope the extra flue addresses the draught issue - my wife is starting to agitate for a replacement.

Denis

 

[DenisT]

I’d just add a length of flue.

Thanks. Looks like this is the next step.

Denis

 

[TomMcDonald]

Thanks Tom

I will follow up with the fibrous gasket for the flue - have sourced the baffle gaskets from Pivot. Looks like an additional length of flue is the next step, and fiddle with the door before replacing the gasket which in itself looks OK. From what I read about these the blackened door issue is fairly common. Hope the extra flue addresses the draught issue - my wife is starting to agitate for a replacement.

Denis

In this thread I have attached a photo of the door shims. 2 minute job.

Neo 2.5 and a thank you.

Hello all, and thank you for the wealth of knowledge that you guys drop. So I recently decided I wanted an alternative to my gas boiler and baseboard heat. I looked at the wood fireplace, thinking back about the monster stove that ate the 5 cords of wood ever winter, my teenage chores, and...

www.hearth.com

Have you done the hack with blocking up the right side air inlet? That can be helpful too.

Tom.

 

[DenisT]

In this thread I have attached a photo of the door shims. 2 minute job.

Neo 2.5 and a thank you.

Hello all, and thank you for the wealth of knowledge that you guys drop. So I recently decided I wanted an alternative to my gas boiler and baseboard heat. I looked at the wood fireplace, thinking back about the monster stove that ate the 5 cords of wood ever winter, my teenage chores, and...

www.hearth.com

Have you done the hack with blocking up the right side air inlet? That can be helpful too.

Tom.

No I haven't - not sure what you are referring to specifically. There are the three holes under the front (middle), large one able to be covered by the air control lever, a smaller one next to it (always open and seemingly connected to the same air space as the large one), and a smaller one further to the right, which seems to be open to a different air space. Is this latter what you mean? Thanks for the link re door shims.

Denis

 

[TomMcDonald]

No I haven't - not sure what you are referring to specifically. There are the three holes under the front (middle), large one able to be covered by the air control lever, a smaller one next to it (always open and seemingly connected to the same air space as the large one), and a smaller one further to the right, which seems to be open to a different air space. Is this latter what you mean? Thanks for the link re door shims.

Denis

I have the insert and only two holes but some people plug the hole on the right (I have mine plugged with a dense roll of alfoil) to try to even out combustion left to right and to slow it down a bit as this hole is always open - although that's not really in scope of your post.
Do at your own risk.
Cheers,
tom.

 

[begreen]

have the insert and only two holes but some people plug the hole on the right (I have mine plugged with a dense roll of alfoil) to try to even out combustion left to right and to slow it down a bit as this hole is always open - although that's not really in scope of your post.

This usually shouldn't be altered unless there is a very strong draft problem, like with a 9 meter flue. If testing, use a strong magnet or something easily removable and non-combustible.

 

[Larsanders]

I had the exact same problem when my stove was new. Three years ago. Turns out the installer did not remove the round knock out plate on the back of the stove which allows it to draw air. Once I removed this, the stove worked great.

I also have the same problem with the bottom right and left corners of the glass turning black. I am going to replace the door seal today and see if that helps. Might try the shim removal hack too if I fail the dollar bill test.

 

[lee_]

Hi Guys,

I’m looking at buying a Neo Insert (from Pivot). How did you go fixing your issues?

Lee

 

[TomMcDonald]

Hi Guys,

I’m looking at buying a Neo Insert (from Pivot). How did you go fixing your issues?

Lee

Sold the stove

 

[lee_]

Sold the stove

Were you able to conclude whether there were inherent design flaws vs a dodgy unit vs poor installation?

There seem to be a number of positive reviews?

 

[DenisT]

It seems as if thd problem was insufficient flu length. Approached the supplier, they agreed and had someone out to rectify in short order. Added about 750mm, has made a huge difference. No trouble starting (top down lighting), draws well, great being able to adjust the burn instead of always having to have a full throttle. The Neo is now living up to its promise.

Denis

 

[lee_]

It seems as if thd problem was insufficient flu length. Approached the supplier, they agreed and had someone out to rectify in short order. Added about 750mm, has made a huge difference. No trouble starting (top down lighting), draws well, great being able to adjust the burn instead of always having to have a full throttle. The Neo is now living up to its promise.

Denis

Thanks Denis. Any problems with fan noise, noisy metal expansion/contraction, or dirty glass?

 

[TomMcDonald]

Were you able to conclude whether there were inherent design flaws vs a dodgy unit vs poor installation?

There seem to be a number of positive reviews?

Noisy rattly fans, fascia also vibrates and rattles, no heat without fan, lots of lost heat up the chimney (not unique to the Neo), constantly fighting with dirty glass. In the end I could live with all the negatives except that I wanted a freestander.
My advice would be to avoid an insert if at all possible.

 

[DenisT]

Thanks Denis. Any problems with fan noise, noisy metal expansion/contraction, or dirty glass?

Hi, ours is a free-standing and no fan. Metal expansion noise when first lighting, we rather like the increasing tempo as the fire takes hold. Certainly not a problem for us. We did have some trouble last year with the left hand side of the glass blackening, but so far this season not a problem. Did take advice to tighten the door closer slightly, and maybe this combined with the improved draft has made the difference.