New Construction, Very Large House

[Dirk Lately]

Hi everyone,

I know you probably tire of the endless parade of newbies asking for purchase advice, but...here's another!

We're building in Portland, a moderate climate, a 6200sf 3-story. Primary heat will be 2 heat pumps, but we want to supplement with a manufactured high-efficiency fireplace. I'm hoping to be able to use the central ducting to move air around and equalize the temperature in the various rooms. We have unlimited access to wood, and price doesn't matter much, but value matters a great deal. If we can lower our power bill a bit I'm willing to invest!

Our contractor is pointing us to the Heatnglo Northstar, and we were looking also at the FPX 44 elite. I like the posipressure idea, although I've never experienced it.

What do you think? Are there other options I should consider?

Also, can anyone recommend a dealer near Portland?

Thanks for reading, and thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[Hogwildz]

Hi everyone,

I know you probably tire of the endless parade of newbies asking for purchase advice, but...here's another!

We're building in Portland, a moderate climate, a 6200sf 3-story. Primary heat will be 2 heat pumps, but we want to supplement with a manufactured high-efficiency fireplace. I'm hoping to be able to use the central ducting to move air around and equalize the temperature in the various rooms. We have unlimited access to wood, and price doesn't matter much, but value matters a great deal. If we can lower our power bill a bit I'm willing to invest!

Our contractor is pointing us to the Heatnglo Northstar, and we were looking also at the FPX 44 elite. I like the posipressure idea, although I've never experienced it.

What do you think? Are there other options I should consider?

Also, can anyone recommend a dealer near Portland?

Thanks for reading, and thanks in advance for any advice.

Man your going to need like 2 large stoves and a large EPA fireplace to dent that heating bill.
I took interest in this when posted............... https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/42782/
A great deal, and a good size fireplace. That price is a steal, even if freight is added, still a steal. If I had the place for a fireplace, this would be in it.

Edit: I believe he has two duct kits for it also. You can run duct off this fireplace.

 

[SolarAndWood]

I would post this in the boiler room...6200 sq ft is a ridiculous amount of space for a fireplace. Either a furnace or a boiler integrated into your duct work makes a lot more sense. You could also do your domestic hot water with it.

Now, for entertainment and a great space heater, nothing beats a big beautiful fireplace or woodstove.

 

[Dirk Lately]

haha, yeah, maybe it is kind of ridiculous to think we'll make a dent in the heating bill. I forgot to mention we'll also have a big woodstove in the basement, but still.

But even if we DON'T get enough heat from the fireplace to really help heat the house, wouldn't a HE fireplace, particularly one with posipressure, be the best kind to get to avoid drawing cold air into the house? If so, what models do you think I should be considering?

Thanks!

 

[SolarAndWood]

A boiler could eliminate your heating and domestic water heating bill while providing even heat heat to all of the space. And with new construction, I would seriously consider radiant floors. Zoning is a huge advantage especially in a big house.

 

[youngstr]

We have a FPX 44 and it heats our 2600+ sf open floor plan home well here in NH. Check the install manual to make sure you can install the fireplace with posi-pressure. Since we are in a cold climate the install manual did not reccommend using posi-pressure for our installation. I've been very happy with our fireplace but I don't know about heating a 6200sf home......even if you get the amount of heat you need(since your in a milder climate) I would think there would be difficulties with circulation. Since your heat pump is forced hot air as you indicated the fan from that might help distribute the heat.........

Y

 

[ccwhite]

I put in a woodchuck furnace last season and I love it. That would be my suggestion for you. Get the big puppy it is the model 4000 It will tie directly into your ductwork and heat your whole home. Get yourself a fireplace for a nice fire upstairs by all means but have the furnace for your main heating. You don't want to be bringing 6-8 cords of firewood through your living room every winter. I keep all of that mess in the basement and stay toasty warm with no cold spots in the house.

http://www.usagnet.com/meyermfg/woodchuck.php

Just my $.02 ;-)

 

[Wet1]

I'd also suggest going with a wood boiler to heat an area that large. Unfortunately, boilers usually aren't all that sexy.

If you're hell bent on heating with a wood stove or fireplace, I'd skip the pre manufactured FP. I'd go with a free standing stove. There are only a couple of stoves I'd consider. The Hearthstone EQ would probably be at the top of my list, but it certainly wont heat all of that area by itself. Two Blaze King's would likely heat that space fairly well and would require minimal amount of work. From a functionality stand point, two BKK's would probably be your best bet if you're not willing to do the wood boiler or furnace.

 

[d.braun.28]

I can heat my 4200 sqft home with my 44 elite. I set both of the furnaces to recirculate and works well.

 

[Slow1]

Price doesn't matter much, but value value does. New construction. Hmm... Considered a good masonry fireplace/heater? I'm not talking about some pretend wanna-be fireplace here, I'm talking about a properly designed, in the middle of the house showpiece that will make all of us here drool in envy. I believe this would also be a unique feature that would add value to your home (again, done right).

I'd LOVE to build such a thing into my dream home. If built correctly it could well make a dent in your heating bill and also be quite a nice draw in your home.

Something to think about - designs are endless, the theory/engineering is sound and tested. Not something you really retrofit into a home, but it sounds to me like you may have the perfect opportunity to install one there.

 

[Dirk Lately]

Thanks all, this is very useful information to me.

I'm not interested in a boiler, I think. I want to *supplement* my heat with the fireplace, not use it as primary heat. And again, there will be a woodstove handling the basement, so the 2 heat pumps and the fireplace are really handling about 4500 sf.

I've got to think that if you can heat a 4200 sf house in Illinois or a 2600 sf house in NH with the FPX 44, then surely it will help a tiny bit in Oregon. I think I'll pursue that model (with posi-pressure) and see where it leads.

Slow1, we seriously considered an honest-to-God masonry fireplace. Wouldn't that be magnificent? And I know I said price doesn't matter much, but, uh, it matters a *little*

Wet1, thanks also for your woodstove advice. That's another purchase I've got no idea about. I'll check out Hearthstone and Blaze King. Does Hearthstone EQ mean Hearthstone Equinox, the soapstone stove?

Thanks again everyone.

 

[Slow1]

Ok, so I'm rather curious having never actually seen a pricetag for one of these things. What sort of costs did you find associated with building a masonry fireplace?

 

[Wet1]

Wet1, thanks also for your woodstove advice. That's another purchase I've got no idea about. I'll check out Hearthstone and Blaze King. Does Hearthstone EQ mean Hearthstone Equinox, the soapstone stove?

Yes. If you're going to buy a large wood stove to heat that kind of area, the HS Equinox would be my first choice, the BK King would probably be my second choice. The Buck model 91 is worth a look as well. Regardless, you'll want a 4+ cu ft fire box and plan on needing an 8" flue for such a beast. I'm assuming you're basement will be well insulated. If not, it needs to be to heat from the basement with a wood stove.

BTW, it would take one hell of a big masonry heater to heat that many sq ft! The only way to do this with space heaters (and this includes masonry heaters) is to use multiple space heaters. Otherwise, you'll have some very warm and cold areas. Something this size ideally should be done with a boiler, or possibly with a furnace.

 

[Wet1]

Ok, so I'm rather curious having never actually seen a pricetag for one of these things. What sort of costs did you find associated with building a masonry fireplace?

A lot of variables here, but figure somewhere around $10k on the low end to $20k+ for something large and fairly exotic.

 

[Dirk Lately]

I'm getting bids of $8000 to purchase and install a new FPX 44. That seems excessive to me. Do they really cost that much?

I find it difficult to believe that all you people who have one paid that!

 

[Dirk Lately]

Also of note: I called one dealer about 50 miles away, and his first question was "Are you local?" He refused to give me a quote because he didn't want to step on the territories of dealers closer to me. Evidently the customer doesn't get to choose where to purchase.

 

[Wet1]

Ouch, that's seems steep! I hope that price includes all the Class A and a pretty chase built around it!

 

[basswidow]

I also think that's alittle much considering it's new construction - should be an easy install. Are they going to include the rated chimney, cap, and also finish the fireplace facing? What is included in the bid?

I had a Kozyheat Z42 installed. Mine was $ 5000 to include flue, cap, fireplace. They wanted $ 8000 to do the finish work (cultured stone). Kozyheat has some much bigger fireplaces you might find interesting and that would give you more heat - but they require masonary chimneys. There is also another company RSF that has Opel fireplaces that are good.

Are you going to burn wood or put a gas log in it? Please say no....to the gas log. If you are just putting a gas log in it - get a cheap zero clearance unit.

I find the posi-pressure interesting. Mine has an outside air intake, but that is just for combustion. The blower is warming the inside air via intakes. So in order to produce the outward pressure, it has to be warming and forcing outside air into the house to create that pressure? Seems like that would make the stove work harder considering how cold the outside air is. We have 3700 sf and that little z42 really puts out the heat. The dual blower moves alot of air and is quiet. Kept us warm all last winter. It's a great fireplace/stove. Highly recommend. It also has 2 knock outs to connect to ductwork.

I am on the east coast and the local dealer here in NJ has been selling a bunch of these.

 

[FN_9]

Price doesn't matter much, but value value does. New construction. Hmm... Considered a good masonry fireplace/heater? I'm not talking about some pretend wanna-be fireplace here, I'm talking about a properly designed, in the middle of the house showpiece that will make all of us here drool in envy. I believe this would also be a unique feature that would add value to your home (again, done right).

I'd LOVE to build such a thing into my dream home. If built correctly it could well make a dent in your heating bill and also be quite a nice draw in your home.

Something to think about - designs are endless, the theory/engineering is sound and tested. Not something you really retrofit into a home, but it sounds to me like you may have the perfect opportunity to install one there.

Yeap - I'll 2nd that

 

['bert]

you could also look into the Lennox / Security Chimney line of BIS stoves. they work out well in new construction. The BIS Tradition has a good size firebox.

 

[builderbob]

Lennox Montecito Estate available from North Pacific Supply in Clackamas near you.

Also its clone, the BIS Tradition, available from Luedeman's in Beaverton near you.

These have 4.0 cu ft fireboxes, uses solid pack chimney pipe. This aids in better draw, and you don't have the sometimes problems experienced with cold-air infiltration into the house that many FPX with the air-cooled chimney have experienced.

Both the Lennox and the BIS are non-catalytic, and both have option for 2 ducts to nearby rooms to help distribute heat.

lennoxhearthproducts.com
the site also has a link to Security Chimney Co to find info on the clone the BIS Tradition.

 

[Highbeam]

Hi Dirk, I live on the puget sound but my family is all from Portland. We don't use boilers and hot water here (much)in the NW so a wood fired boiler isn't really an option. You have the ducting and a relatively inexpensive wood furnace would be the only way to put a big dent in the home heating of that huge house. It could be in the basement and is pretty automated to work as an add-on to your existing central heat. I like the big yukons but haven't researched too much.

In the living room or main living area you will want a nice big stove or fireplace that allows a local heat and a nice view of the fire. Everybody, especially those with 6200 SF houses, loves to set in front of the fire. You can have a warm and cozy cabin that you heat to 75 year round but when you have a huge building like your you will not be able to keep the whole thing warm and cozy without major expenditure. Why would you want to anyway, you will have plenty of room in the main living area.

 

[pilot-werx]

Coming from someone who heats 5000 sqft with wood, you are better off investing your money in the best windows you can afford and the most insulation you can put in. The amount of wood you are going to go through is not really worth the effort unless you are around all day long... When I built my house, I used the best high performance windows I could get from Anderson. And although my builder thought and still thinks I am crazy I used 8" exterior wall studs and sandwiched the insulation with foam board on both sides. Now, in theory I can heat my house with my PE summit when it is 10 below out. But the amount of wood I have to feed the beast is crazy.... If you are serious about wood heat save the fireplace for ambiance. I am not sure what the wood pellet or corn industry is like in PNW, but if I had to do it again I would have put in one of the Central Boilers pellet boiler with a bulk feeder...

 

[Highbeam]

The pellet industry in the NW is superior. Our current prices are 215 per ton and loads available. However, we don't use hot water for heat so it would be a pellet furnace. Corn is strange, we obviously grow it but not the same as in Iowa.

If you put foam on each side of the fiberglass insulation then won't you have water vapor issues? The foam is a vapor barrier and now you have a vapor barrier on the cold and hot side of the room. I wonder if the standard 2x6 space could have more effectively been filled with spray foam?

I agree though to use the fireplace for ambiance and room heat but the home won't be adequately heated with a non-ducted appliance.