New englander stove question

[Rebelduckman]

I currently have the 13nc. It really throws out the heat but it doesn't have quite the burn I was expecting. I like englander stoves but am open to suggestions. Will the Madison give me anymore burn time or should I go with a catalytic stove? I already know the 30nc would run us out. Tia

 

[BigCountryNY]

What kind of burn times are you getting vs. what you expected?

 

[Rebelduckman]

What kind of burn times are you getting vs. what you expected?

Around 4-5 instead of 6+. I get the occasional 6. I'd love to get 8 or more

 

[BigCountryNY]

I was getting 3-4 last winter depending on my wood being used. Since last year was our first full winter here, my wood was marginal at best. The limiting factor is the 1.8 cu ft firebox. If it were just a bit bigger it would be better and burns could stretch further. A cat stove will definitely give you longer burn times. I think you'd either have to go with a bigger firebox or cat, which can provide the longest burn times. They sure can get expensive though. We are adding a 2nd stove this year for upstairs to try and avoid burning oil. Love the PE Alderlea T5 which boasts 8 hr burn times, but for $2500 I went with the 30NC instead.

 

[Grisu]

What do you define as "burn time"? Knowing that will help in suggesting a properly sized stove.

 

[Michael6268]

Trying to look at the Madison on their site. Where is it? I dont see it listed...

 

[Highbeam]

The biggest and best noncats are still just barely overnight burners. As in, you can restart the warm stove from coals in the morning when you run them as slow as possible. I only get 8 hours from the nc30.

The 4-5 hours you're getting, is that on low burn?

 

[Grisu]

Trying to look at the Madison on their site. Where is it? I dont see it listed...

Here is the manual: http://www.heatredefined.com/assets/images/manuals/3343/15-ssp01_merged.pdf

When you do a forum search you will find several threads about the Madison, some of them with pics. This is one: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/madison-in-my-burn-trailer.128150/

 

[Michael6268]

Thanks!

Just wondering though. Am I missing the pic on their site or is there a reason they didn't put it on there?

 

[BrotherBart]

Burn time and heat life are so much BS that the question is if the house is too cold when you get up in the morning and can you relight off of the coals? Burn time big firebox or a cat stove and heat life is all about the mass, read weight, of the stove and its ability to keep radiating heat after the fire dies down.

 

[bholler]

The biggest and best noncats are still just barely overnight burners. As in, you can restart the warm stove from coals in the morning when you run them as slow as possible. I only get 8 hours from the nc30.
The 4-5 hours you're getting, is that on low burn?

I wouldn't quite say that. Yes cat stoves get much better burn times for sure. But there are many people out there that easily burn overnight and still have heat output in the morning with non cats.

 

[Highbeam]

It becomes important again to define the term burntime as the op sees it. To me, a long burn time is extremely valuable and jumping from 4 hours to 6 hours is not worth a stove change.

Still having heat output in the morning is barely burning overnight. To have more than half of the load's burntime remaining in the morning is superior. Can't quite gauge the op's desire.

 

[bholler]

Still having heat output in the morning is barely burning overnight. To have more than half of the load's burntime remaining in the morning is superior. Can't quite gauge the op's desire.

I agree that a longer burn time is better for sure but cat stoves cost allot more so it is a trade off if the 8 or 9 hours which is easily attainable with many noncat stoves is good enough for you then there is no need to pay the extra for a cat stove simply for the increased burn time. And yes there are other benifits of cats i know. I am not bashing cat stoves at all but for many people non cats work very well.

 

[Highbeam]

I agree that a longer burn time is better for sure but cat stoves cost allot more so it is a trade off if the 8 or 9 hours which is easily attainable with many noncat stoves is good enough for you then there is no need to pay the extra for a cat stove simply for the increased burn time. And yes there are other benifits of cats i know. I am not bashing cat stoves at all but for many people non cats work very well.

I'm with you. Plenty of non-cats can make it overnight. I could get overnighters with my 2.3 CF hearthstone noncat IF run on low. Low for a noncat is kind of a silly thing to say since you have very little control but on the lowest clean burn rate I could do 10 hours and restart from coals. You don't need a cat stove for this.

If the OP's situation is a very small house then getting longer burn times and low output at the same time can be challenging. To get a longer burn time from a non-cat you need a bigger non-cat and more fuel. That bigger non-cat makes a lot of heat. Pellet stoves start looking attractive.

The PE super firebox (like theT5) seem to be the crossroads of non-cat, longer burn, lower output.

 

[bholler]

I'm with you. Plenty of non-cats can make it overnight. I could get overnighters with my 2.3 CF hearthstone noncat IF run on low. Low for a noncat is kind of a silly thing to say since you have very little control but on the lowest clean burn rate I could do 10 hours and restart from coals. You don't need a cat stove for this.
If the OP's situation is a very small house then getting longer burn times and low output at the same time can be challenging. To get a longer burn time from a non-cat you need a bigger non-cat and more fuel. That bigger non-cat makes a lot of heat. Pellet stoves start looking attractive.
The PE super firebox (like theT5) seem to be the crossroads of non-cat, longer burn, lower output.

I agree with you cat stoves are great for long low burns and defiantly have their place but in some situations i think non cats fit better. If you don't need to burn long and low because you have a large poorly insulated house you don't need that low burn really so there is not much benefit from a cat in those situations.

 

[bholler]

The biggest and best noncats are still just barely overnight burners. As in, you can restart the warm stove from coals in the morning when you run them as slow as possible.

I just felt i had to correct this statement it just is not true I was in no way saying anything bad about cat stoves.

 

[Highbeam]

I just felt i had to correct this statement it just is not true I was in no way saying anything bad about cat stoves.

What do you mean it's not true? What non-cat stoves can make it through the night still making meaningful heat after say 9 hours? Let's be more specific, stove top temp over 400 after 9 hours on one load? Go.

I picked 9 hours because you're supposed to get 8 of sleep and you need to establish a burn on a new load before going to bed.

Non-cats are great, I own one but let's be realistic about expectations. Obviously, a cat stove is much more capable in the burn time department.

 

[bholler]

Obviously, a cat stove is much more capable in the burn time department.

Absolutely i never contested that at all. I get 8 hours easily with my stove. My father gets 9 to 10 out of his older quad. I know plenty of our regency customers that get 8 to 9. Many of our customers with hearthstones get 8+. Many people have been burning non cats through the night for many years with no problems. It just is not true that it cant be done i am sorry. Can a cat stove do it better absolutely but to say a non cat cant barely burn through the night is not true i am sorry.

 

[Highbeam]

I think some can probably do it. At least in the eyes of their owners. With soapstone I could get 200 degree STT after an overnight and still have enough coals for a relight without matches.

The OP is only looking for 8 or more but is in a small home that the nc30 would run him out.

 

[bholler]

The OP is only looking for 8 or more but is in a small home that the nc30 would run him out.

I agree with that entirely in order to get long burns with non cat you need a larger fire box which means more heat so they don't work well for small spaces. Most of the time when i wake up in the morning i still have flames not just coals as long as i am burning ash or better

 

[Highbeam]

Many people have been burning non cats through the night for many years with no problems. It just is not true that it cant be done i am sorry.

Ah, read again Bholler, I said the best can barely make it. As in, they can. However, I propose that this is owner bias and that after this overnight burn the stoves are not making any significant heat.

 

[bholler]

Ah, read again Bholler, I said the best can barely make it. As in, they can. However, I propose that this is owner bias and that after this overnight burn the stoves are not making any significant heat.

I can tell you mine which is far from the biggest and best is still making heat in the morning. To do so you need good dry hardwood but and i get a new load going up to temp and shut back in under 30 mins so it is not just coals from coals it takes me a good hour. I did see that and the sentence after that i did say that it was not tru that they could barley do it

 

[Highbeam]

We're pretty much saying the same thing. I would be impressed, and I think you would be too, if you loaded a noncat and came back 9 hours later to a stove was still over 400. Nothing wrong with a non-cat but let's be realistic for the benefit of folks justifying changing stoves.

 

[bholler]

We're pretty much saying the same thing. I would be impressed, and I think you would be too, if you loaded a noncat and came back 9 hours later to a stove was still over 400. Nothing wrong with a non-cat but let's be realistic for the benefit of folks justifying changing stoves.

Yes we are and if you want long burn times a cat stove is best absolutely. But i am being realistic you can easily heat a house 24/7 with a non can and still get plenty of sleep. Cat stoves are better in many cases but like i said they also cost allot more and for many people that increase in cost is not worth it. I will never try to talk someone out of a cat stove if it will fit their needs. But i will also not push them towards a cat if it will not benefit them much. I am curious what species of wood you are burning also.

 

[Highbeam]

I burn higher btu softwoods of course but that doesn't seem to matter much for burntimes since I still got the same 8-10 hours on low as everyone else in the world. What seems to happen when folks burn high btu hardwoods is that the heat output goes up but burntimes stay constant.