New guy needing educated

[calebj06]

Hello all, i have been browsing your wonderful site for the past few days and figured it was time to join the fun.

I have grown up around wood stoves my whole life but just recently purchased a home with a fire place in it. We would like to install a wood insert into the fireplace to use in heating our home. I will be the first to admit that i know basically nothing about how this stuff works

I have learned about things such as the chimney liner and such in the last few days though.

A few details on the house.

1972 single level 1900sq Feet
the fireplace is at 1 end of the house in a fairly narrow and long living room/kitchen
the flew is not a normal chimney type but rather just triple wall pipe sticking up about 8 feet out of the hip roof

questions:

do i still need the flew liner?
What size unit should i be looking for?
Are there any options for a modern looking stove? The house is being done very modern with greys and bright colors

And lastly, $$$. we are a young family and on a budget. I understand that you get what you pay for but we just dont have the budget right now to go spend many thousands on an insert. I am thinking about starting rather inexpensive and seeing if we really do like it and will use it.

Any suggestions on where to start looking?

thanks
caleb

 

[begreen]

Welcome. This sounds like it might be a Zero Clearance fireplace and not a masonry unit. Is that correct? If so there probably will be UL plate with a make and model somewhere on the front inner frame. You will definitely need a stainless flue liner. The size will be determined by what type of fireplace this is and the size of its firebox.

 

[calebj06]

thanks for the reply begreen. yes, after some research i believe it is a zero clearance unit.

one other main concern that i have is getting TOO hot. the room is 13x24 with the fireplace on the long wall towards one end. The couches will set directly in front of and to one side of the fireplace. i dont want something so hot that i cant set in the living room! lol

thanks for the help

 

[mellow]

With your choices now narrowed down to small ZC rated inserts that shouldn't be an issue, especially with a couple fans.

Not just any ol insert will go in that thing, most of the ZC rated inserts are a pretty penny.

 

[calebj06]

Care to point me in the right direction?

Sorry I'm really new to this.

 

[mellow]

Is it safe to put an insert in a Zero Clearance or not?
Wood Insert Sizing Question

 

[bholler]

I will put my 2 cents in here. I know many disagree with this but csia (chimney safety institute of America) does not recommend putting an insert in a zero clearance unit. I know that there are inserts that say they can go into zc but to do so you need to modify the zc to a point where it would no longer meet its own ul requirements. As a professional I will not do it because of the potential liability issues involved. I know this will probably start an argument and I am not trying to do that I just though the other side of the argument should be mentioned.

 

[begreen]

This has just been hashed over. True that you are not to modify the fireplace. That said, there are many inserts that go into zc units with no more modification than door and damper removal as permitted by the insert mfg..

 

[begreen]

caleb, what would be helpful is the make/model of fireplace and it's firebox dimensions - H + W+ D, front and back. If you can include a picture that helps too.

 

[bholler]

Yes and by removing the doors damper and grate that unit no longer meets the ul listing. And due to that fact according to ul is no longer fit to be used. Before doing anything I would check with the insurance company and make sure they will cover it if anything goes wrong. I know this is controversial it is in the professional forums also I don't necessarily feel it is a safety issue but I do think that an insurance company is very likely not to pay a claim in this situation. Especially considering it is against csia recommendations.

 

[begreen]

You are speculating. The housing has not been violated. Not all ZC even come with doors in the first place. And how is removing the damper any different than running the fireplace with the damper wide open? It changes nothing with the heat shielding safety of the ZC unit from framing. If these problems you are fretting about were true no major stove manufacturer would make and certify their inserts are safe for zero-clearance installation. Travis even specifically names the ZC fireplace brands that it has tested in.

 

[bholler]

As I said I don't think that it is necessarily a safety issue but I see it as a liability issue and I feel he should explain it to his insurance company and make sure they sign off on it. Most companies will try to find any reason not to pay a claim and due to the controversy over it this is a spot where they might have grounds to deny it. I have said quite a few times here that I think in allot of situations that it can be done safely I just don't see that it is worth the liability risk.

 

[calebj06]

From my reading today I have found this arguement over and over. I fully see your point in not making changes to the existing ZC, BUT, I'm fully confident that it will hurt absolutely nothing.

I will be doing the install myself and not asking a professional to put his butt on the line. I also believe that my insurance rep would not have any problems.

That arguement settled, can someone point me in the direction of some makers of inserts that would work in the ZC fireplaces?
Once again, money really is key. I know it's not gonna happen for $500, but I can't spend 5k either!

Sorry I don't have specs or pics right now as we are not in the new house yet. I will have them in 4 DAYS!!

 

[begreen]

Do your installation by the insert manual and it should be fine with the insurance company. They like documentation. Avalon/Lopi, Quadrafire, Regency, Country, Pacific Energy, Enviro make inserts for ZC fireplaces.

 

[bholler]

As long as you understand both sides and make your decision accordingly as well as confirm with your insurance carrier go for it.

 

[calebj06]

Thanks guys. One last question for tonight.

Havin a hard time finding any prices online.

What should I plan on spending on this assuming I will be doing all of the work myself??

Is $2000 doable or will it most likely be $3000 when I'm done??
Thanks

 

[begreen]

Depends on the height of the chimney and what insert is going in but 2K is a low number. 3K, yes, maybe.