New guy with some instal questions

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Jun 9, 2010
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Virginia
I'm a DIYer out of necessity and it seems like you can find a web forum for just about any subject nowadays...I love it!
First I wanna introduce myself.
I'm new here and am looking forward to some great advice.

In my last home I installed a Hearthstone Phoenix and I really liked it. It heated our 1 1/2 story cape cod very well. We kept it going 24/7 all winter. I live in central Va. so our winters are usually pretty mild with average daytime lows around 20-30 deg.
5 yrs ago we built a 2 story colonial and I regrettably decided to install a prefab gas log set. Now I'm determined to correct my mistake and switch to another Hearthstone wood stove. This time I'd like to use the Heritage or maybe even the Equinox.

Here's my problem...the only place it can really go is where the gas log unit is. It's a direct vent and we only have a "bump out", no chimney. I've talked to a general contractor and after he scratched his head for awhile, he suggested pulling out the prefab unit and extending the "bump out" all the way up to enclose the new vent pipe. He didn't sound like he was real confident of the advice he was giving.
After spending two whole days researching options it also looks like there are two other possibilities. I can run the vent pipe straight up through the second floor and through the attic. I would then build a chase to hide it on the second floor. It seems I could also use a couple of 90's and put it through the first floor wall and run it up above the roof line on the exterior and eventually frame that in (or not and leave it exposed).
Cost is definitely a factor here. I would like to find a way to do this without a lot of reconstruction.
I've found and talked a good bit with a local stove outlet that is gonna come out and look at the job on Monday. I would like to hear some ideas or opinions to compare with what my stove shop will suggest.
If I'm leaving out any pertinent info let me know.
 
Welcome, Chris. Going straight up sounds good...1. No bends in pipe 2. Chimney stays warmer = better draft 3. Cheaper - esp if you frame in chase in 2nd story room yourself. It would go Stove-black stove pipe-ceiling support box-Class A chimney thru upstairs room, attic, out to raincap.
 
out and up does not require a chase, (doug ) his referrence to the 2 90 elbows was to pass through to outside then go up which is fine) you could go back and enclose it later if you wanted to. one thing on the 90's , you will need the proper pass through kit with a cleanout at the bottom of the outside stack. also it needs to be rated at ul-103 HT , not just ul - 103 (which is only for premanufactured fireplaces) if price point is a big factor i'd look at that to save the extra work indoors (which you would not be able to put off like you could an exterior chase.

as for the stove , hearthstone makes a great line (so i wont chastise you for not buying from your local stove manufacturer here in central Va). be sure that the unit you select has available outside air intake connectability due to your house being new and likely built tight, its important IMHO with new construction (look up "negative pressure")

lastly , WELCOME to the hearth! you have found the best source for information on hearth products there is. oh , and this is IMPORTANT!!! the forum members demand pictures when its done ( while in progress are optional) being in central Va. gimme a shout if you hit a snag, im close
 
Thanks for the welcome and advice.
I forgot to mention that I am definitely using a pro for the installation. I'm a DIYer but I know my limits.
Mike...you say that I can't put off framing in the vent pipe if I go through my second floor? Why is that?
I kinda thought of the possibility of leaving it exposed, using black stove pipe and getting the benefit of the heat from the stove pipe in the second story room. Am I off base on this?
I'll post pics of what I'm working with tomorrow.
 
chris-mcpherson said:
Thanks for the welcome and advice.
I forgot to mention that I am definitely using a pro for the installation. I'm a DIYer but I know my limits.
Mike...you say that I can't put off framing in the vent pipe if I go through my second floor? Why is that?
I kinda thought of the possibility of leaving it exposed, using black stove pipe and getting the benefit of the heat from the stove pipe in the second story room. Am I off base on this?
I'll post pics of what I'm working with tomorrow.

Hi Chris welcome to the forum.
I agree with dougand3. You have to use class A from the ceiling support box up through the second story in the attic and out the roof. Stove pipe is not allowed to pass through floors or ceilings. Stove pipe requires 18" of clearance with proper shielding you can reduce that down.
You would have to enclose the class A in any living area of the home that's just the rules. To frame in the upstairs chimney is not a big cost a few 2 x 4's and some sheet rock. You might need offsets to get in the attic as the floor joists and trusses do not always line up with each other. The other thing to consider is where the the pipe comes out the roof most cape cods have at least a 8/12 pitch on the roof if you are farther away then 10' from the peak you would need 104" of pipe sticking out the roof with a 8/12 pitch. Anything over 5' needs a roof brace kit or a chase built around it.
In all you are looking at about 16' or more of class A chimney. I don't Know your layout so it could be a little less or more.Your local stove shop should be able to point you in the right direction though.
 
chris-mcpherson said:
Thanks for the welcome and advice.
I forgot to mention that I am definitely using a pro for the installation. I'm a DIYer but I know my limits.
Mike...you say that I can't put off framing in the vent pipe if I go through my second floor? Why is that?
I kinda thought of the possibility of leaving it exposed, using black stove pipe and getting the benefit of the heat from the stove pipe in the second story room. Am I off base on this?
I'll post pics of what I'm working with tomorrow.

Trying to extract the last ounce of heat out of the stove by using the stove pipe can lead to the flue gases getting cooled down too much which can cause them to condense as creosote. When a stove pipe penetrates a floor, there must be a fire stop at that point. Code requires switching from connector pipe (from the stove to the ceiling support box) to class A High Temp pipe at the ceiling support box.
 
dougand3 said:
Welcome, Chris. Going straight up sounds good...1. No bends in pipe 2. Chimney stays warmer = better draft 3. Cheaper - esp if you frame in chase in 2nd story room yourself. It would go Stove-black stove pipe-ceiling support box-Class A chimney thru upstairs room, attic, out to raincap.

What he said.
 
I realize I can't put stove pipe through floors or ceilings. Why couldn't I do Stove>black stove pipe>ceiling support box>black stove pipe (through second floor room, not floor)>ceiling support box>Class A chimney thru attic, out to raincap?
Even if I do have to build a chase around indoor pipe, I think I can handle that. Like Resiburner said...just some 2x4's and sheetrock.
Believe it or not, my wife is even on board with me running vent pipe through our bedroom...she cares more about saving money than I do.

BeGreen said:
Trying to extract the last ounce of heat out of the stove by using the stove pipe can lead to the flue gases getting cooled down too much which can cause them to condense as creosote.
Do you really think this would be a problem seeing that it would be going through a heated room? I'm thinking the effect would be worse doing and unenclosed outdoor chimney with 30 deg or below ambient temps.

Stoveguy...I do plan on using a outdoor air kit.

I hope I don't sound like I'm arguing the advice I'm getting...I'm not. I don't have the knowledge or credibility to do so anyway. I'm just trying to bounce ideas around.

Here are some shots of what I'm working with:

My mistake:

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Bump out

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Where it would pass through if I went inside:

_MG_2676_0013_edited-1.gif



My other wood smoke related passion:
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_MG_2682_0019.gif
 
As BG stated...once you cross a ceiling or wall - you MUST have an approved adapter (ceiling support box or wall thimble)...from the adapter to the rain cap MUST be Class A UL-103 HT chimney. That's a hard code. If you had stove pipe (connector pipe) in a bedroom...1. UNSAFE 2. In event of a house fire - doubt insurance would pay claim as you are WAY outside code. You're thinking about more heat from the stove pipe into BR - on the surface, that does make sense. BUT the disadvantages and safety issues FAR OUTWEIGH the benefits.
What I'd do with what you have...pull gas stove out, finish inside of chase - maybe faux stone or brick and transform it into a wood storage area. Build a hearth in front of it (obey clearances), install stove on hearth, go straight up (or maybe a slight offset to dodge ceiling joist) with stove pipe/CSB/chimney.
 
well I know what I would do..

and if you are a serious DIY'er, you can too...
 
As others have said if you opt to go with the inside chimney it needs to have the proper pipe, proper pass through devices, proper clearance and it needs to be enclosed. Forget about needing to do this to follow the code, make the inspectors happy or make it so that your insurance company is pleased with the install . . . the main reason you want to do this the right way is to keep you, your family and your investment safe. In my own mind . . . there is a lot in this world that is gray -- whether sirloin tips are better than prime rib, whether Fords are better than Chevys or whether Diet Pepsi is better than Diet Coke . . . but when it comes to playing with fire . . . there is no gray area . . . it's black and white . . . and so there is only one way . . . the right way . . . to keep the family safe.

That said . . . you have a choice. To me there are pros- and cons-. If you go inside you will have to do some sheetrocking, painting and you may risk having to use off-sets to get around rafters, floor trusses, etc. The advantage is you will have a relatively straight shot to the roof, if you elect to use single wall pipe on the first floor to the cieling you will gain some heat (and actually may gain a bit of heat even from the enclosed Class A running through the rest of the home) and you should have a good draft.

On the other hand, running outside would perhaps be the quickest and easiest thing to do . . . and if money is tight you can leave the Class A exposed this year and enclose it in future years. The advantage of running it outside could include the fact that you wouldn't take away any inside space from enclosing the chimney, no worries about rafters/trusses and you could possibly include a T on the outside which would allow you to clean your chimney from the ground.

Some folks have voiced concerns over outside chimneys in terms of draft, loss of heat and creosote build up. Originally I was going to go with the inside chimney (I would not have lost any space since the chimney would have gone through a knee wall/closet on the second floor) but due to plumbing, electrical wiring and the original home owner who had rafters running one way for the second floor and another way for the second floor's ceiling I opted to go the easier route and go outside and up. I put a T in the pipe for easy cleaning . . . which has been great . . . cleaning the chimney is a 10-minute job. Originally I was worried about excessive creosote build up and a poor draft, but to be honest neither of these have been issues . . . I produce very little creosote and the draft is strong. I also worried that I would lose a lot of heat . . . but to be honest I have all the heat I need . . . and the majority of the heat radiates from the stove, not the flue pipe (this could also be due to the fact I have double wall pipe . .. or maybe it's simply because secondary combustion extracts that much more heat in the firebox vs. allowing it to escape up the chimney.) I was going to enclose the chimney at a later date . . . but to be honest the look has grown on me and you really can't see the chimney from the road . . . in fact only one neighbor has a small view of it.
 
Thanks for the Pics Dakotas Dad...that's some work to be proud of, awesome job!. I'm in pretty much the same boat except your lucky enough to be dealing with a masonry chimney.

Jake...thank you for the advice. At the end of the day it's gonna come down to cost, though...cleaning the chimney from the ground myself is a big plus. I promise, if it goes inside I'll do it the right way.

Oh, and by the way... Fords are better than Chevys... :)
 
chris-mcpherson said:
Thanks for the Pics Dakotas Dad...that's some work to be proud of, awesome job!. I'm in pretty much the same boat except your lucky enough to be dealing with a masonry chimney.

Jake...thank you for the advice. At the end of the day it's gonna come down to cost, though...cleaning the chimney from the ground myself is a big plus. I promise, if it goes inside I'll do it the right way.

Oh, and by the way... Fords are better than Chevys... :)

For me it came down to cost and time . . . and while I may have had to buy one extra length of Class A pipe for my "out and up" install I found it better in terms of time (had to pay someone for the install due to insurance regulations) and money (since I didn't have to pay for drywall, paint or fuss around with moving plumbing, electrical wires, etc.) . . . as I said I was a bit concerned in going with an outside install, but I have since been quite happy and cleaning with the outside T is a breeze.

P.S. Glad to hear the news on the Fords . . . I'm strongly considering purchasing one.
 
chris-mcpherson said:
Thanks for the Pics Dakotas Dad...that's some work to be proud of, awesome job!. I'm in pretty much the same boat except your lucky enough to be dealing with a masonry chimney.

Jake...thank you for the advice. At the end of the day it's gonna come down to cost, though...cleaning the chimney from the ground myself is a big plus. I promise, if it goes inside I'll do it the right way.

Oh, and by the way... Fords are better than Chevys... :)

Actually, I was dealing with a brick chase. a chase is a chase. Just a hollow structure to hide and protect something.

My only advantage was that my chase was already as tall as needed. I still had to deal with clearances to combustibles, the "inside wall" of that chase for most of the way is just the outer sheathing of my house. It's only brick on four sides the last 5' or so. You will have to build a chase either way, outside or inside the house. There is no reason at all not to extend your exterior chase up as far as you need and run your class A inside it. Considering how much I HATE drywall work, it would be far better to me to extend the exterior chase and put up some siding, which is fall off a log easy.

Oh, and you can't call them "chevys" anymore, GM has decided that's not properly formal enough. But really it doesn't matter, as Fords are better.
 
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