New. Help with model and setup

[Dpopps]

I have been thinking about a pellet stove for a while and looking for some knowledge.

I moved to a new house about a year ago. In the past at my old house I had natural gas and also burned wood.

In the house I have now has no wood stove. I would like to get away from using wood because its getting harder to find, lots of work and messy.

My house is 1400sq and I have a finished basement. The finished part is about 1200sq. I would like to put the pellet stove in the basement. The models that have bigger hoppers looks like a big plus for less filling. My furnace uses propane and while I am locked in for the year at 1.99gal I know its going to cost some money. Last year I also used a electric heater during the day to help with propane usage. With propane and electrical, the main 5 months of winter cost me around $300 a month.

Spending a bunch of money of a pellet stove seems counter productive as I am trying to save money. I am not sure what the cost is to pipe the stove? I am trying to stay around $1,300 for the stove part. These are some of the stoves I have found at local stores. Any help, input or advice would be great. Thanks

*PelPro Deluxe Home Heater Pellet Stove

*PELLET STOVE CABINET ECO-CAB50

*Ashley Bay Front Pellet Stove with Pedestal LG Hopper

*Drolet eco-65

 

[Lake Girl]

At $300 a month, you're no farther ahead for this year. Depending on what pellets cost near you, that's close to what you would be spending for pellets a month. Plug your numbers into a fuel calculator to confirm (search the threads for one or find one in the info articles section at the top of the page). Might want to take the time to do research, read up here before making the leap so you're truly happy with your choice.

I'm sure you will hear more from other forum members ...

 

[alternativeheat]

I have been thinking about a pellet stove for a while and looking for some knowledge.

I am locked in for the year at 1.99gal I know its going to cost some money. Last year I also used a electric heater during the day to help with propane usage. With propane and electrical, the main 5 months of winter cost me around $300 a month.

Wow, if I could get propane for $1.99 and heat my house for $300 a month that would be my alternative heat to my oil burner instead of pellets ( much cleaner burning, less work). Around here it is $4.99 and I have seen it as high as $6.25. If it was $1.99 here and stable, which it is not either, I'd have bought a gas stove for my living room and a vented heater for the basement. That's a dream come true.

 

[Dpopps]

I just put my info into the fuel calculator and it said I would save around $1,200 a year. That is also what I was thinking when I figuring it out a month ago.

Maybe the size, layout and efficiency of my home is misleading? I was thinking I would probably use about 5 tons of pellets a season, But I have no idea?

 

[Dpopps]

Wow, if I could get propane for $1.99 and heat my house for $300 a month that would be my alternative heat to my oil burner instead of pellets ( much cleaner burning, less work). Around here it is $4.99 and I have seen it as high as $6.25. If it was $1.99 here and stable, which it is not either, I'd have bought a gas stove for my living room and a vented heater for the basement. That's a dream come true.

wow, That is a crazy price for LP. I am not sure why there is such a difference is price from where you and I live?

Last year we did have a problem. There was a LP shortage, those that where not locked in paid $4 plus a gal. for LP. There was one company that over charged and our state sued them and won, now those customers that got price gouged are getting a refund. Because of the shortage last year my Lp provider called me and asked what level my tank was because he had very little LP to fill tanks with. I was lucky my tank still had 40% left, mostly do to using a electric heater and the efficiency of my home. What would happen if i did not, My family might be on the chilly side for a few weeks till they could get more. My buddies tank was down to its last 5% when more LP came in.

I am not sure why your prices are so much for LP? I can get my 20 and 30# tanks filled for $2.50 a gal. I can get pellets from tsc and menards for $200 ton and other places for $250 a ton. The fuel caculator shows a savings of $1,200. is that not enough savings?

Thanks for any help.

 

[Bioburner]

Your first post stated that you used $300 of propain and electric per month and that's only $1500 for the better part of a heating season but if like us here in MN you have at least two months more. Also when considering install is the cost of hearth pad and venting and maybe permit and inspection costs. To take the savings of 1200 from what you say your using now of $1500 is $300 or only an ton and half of pellets?

 

[Dpopps]

Your first post stated that you used $300 of propain and electric per month and that's only $1500 for the better part of a heating season but if like us here in MN you have at least two months more. Also when considering install is the cost of hearth pad and venting and maybe permit and inspection costs. To take the savings of 1200 from what you say your using now of $1500 is $300 or only an ton and half of pellets?

You are right. sorry I messed up, there would be 7 months of heating. For some reason in my mind I was just thinking of the hard months of winter.

The $1,200 saving was from using the fuel calculator on this site. I am not sure if that would be the case or not?

Ok, I just did the hard math. I added up my propane receipts from last year. Then added up how many hours a day I run the electric heater, how many kwh is uses and my price=per kwh. If you take 7 months of heating it comes to $2,100 so I was off by two months, sorry for the confusion.

If I use 5 tons a year that's $1,000. A $1,100 savings per year, plus the basement would be heated. As of now we dont use it in the winter, if we did that would add another $700 to my heating bill.

 

[railfanron]

Based on your figures I think you'll use 6 tons of pellets a year to heat the space your heating now. That would save you 900 or so. There is no free lunch when it comes to heat. If you want the basement heated also that will run more. Also you are looking at pellet space heaters and putting one in the basement will get your basement nice and cozy but maybe not the upstairs. Depending how much heat filters upstairs will determine whether you're happy or not. There is approximately 175 gallons of Propane to a ton of pellets.
Ron

 

[Dpopps]

Based on your figures I think you'll use 6 tons of pellets a year to heat the space your heating now. That would save you 900 or so. There is no free lunch when it comes to heat. If you want the basement heated also that will run more. Also you are looking at space heaters and putting one in the basement will get your basement nice and cozy but maybe not the upstairs. Depending how much heat filters upstairs will determine whether you're happy or not. There is approximately 175 gallons of Propane to a ton of pellets.
Ron

Thanks for the info.

I think I am going to take the drolet off the list. When I compare the cost difference and its specification to the cab50 I don't see a reason to purchase it. Unless there really that great?

I did a internet search and found two company's close by that actual make and produce premium wood pellets and will sell to me at great price.

175 gal of LP for me = $375 1 ton pellets $189 saving $186. every ton of pellets. you are right that is about $900 savings, not bad really. The stove can pay for it self in two seasons after that it will be nothing but savings and a warm house. Of course this info is based on this years LP price. My LP went up 20 cents this year, I wounder how much they will charge next year or if there will be another shortage?

 

[Lake Girl]

The Eco65 is legally ductable so if it is going to be a basement dweller, you can tie it into existing ductwork. IIRC, there have been some issues but most seem to be a reasonable/easy fix - outside air set-up? (search the threads).

 

[Dpopps]

I don't have any existing duct work in my basement to vent it. I do have a extra fresh air intake vent caped off not being used. It wound be a 12ft run of vent, would that work ok for a oak? Can you get a vent exhaust and OAK all in one?

About how much will a exhaust vent cost for everything?

 

[railfanron]

You must be somewhere near Michigan wood fuels. I burned them last year and they were fine. Also burned magic spark and pro pellets that are made in sw Michigan. All bought fro less than 200 a ton. This year I laid in my supply of pro pellets for 200 a ton. A 12ft run for the OAK should be fine. A price for the exhaust would depend on how long a run and how many fittings as well as diameter. Could be from 300 to 1000.
Ron

 

[Lake Girl]

Where's the propane furnace? Ducting on that?

Might be helpful if you draw floor plan or take pictures of proposed locations (ex, stairwell up for air circulation). Suggested OAK length is long. Are there elbows involved too? EVL calculation would show if you have to increase diameter. Pellet vent the same length? You can get thimbles with OAK attached, pipe with OAK integrated but they cost more...

 

[Dpopps]

You must be somewhere near Michigan wood fuels. I burned them last year and they were fine. Also burned magic spark and pro pellets that are made in sw Michigan. All bought fro less than 200 a ton. This year I laid in my supply of pro pellets for 200 a ton. A 12ft run for the OAK should be fine. A price for the exhaust would depend on how long a run and how many fittings as well as diameter. Could be from 300 to 1000.
Ron

I am closer to maeder brothers.Every use them? I found a few places the make pellets that are not to far away. From looking at the cab50 install directions I can use a 3 or 4in pipe. I would be going 7ft up, then strait out.

Where's the propane furnace? Ducting on that?

Might be helpful if you draw floor plan or take pictures of proposed locations (ex, stairwell up for air circulation). Suggested OAK length is long. Are there elbows involved too? EVL calculation would show if you have to increase diameter. Pellet vent the same length? You can get thimbles with OAK attached, pipe with OAK integrated but they cost more...

I have a location already picked out and it looks good from the install directions I was reading. The furnace is in the utility room and that would be a bad location for the stove.

If I hook the OAK up to the exsiting fresh air intake it would have one elbow in it. I have seen directions say a OAK is not needed but recommended? A all in one vent and OAK sounds nice.

The spot I have picked is out of the way and not to far from the stairway the goes upstairs. I am lucky my stairway is open and in the middle of the house. I also picked this spot because it is close to a cold air return, if I don't naturally get enough warm air upstairs I will build a duct on the cold air return with a 400cfm fan. I have a cold air return in every room of the house. The outside vent would be safe and clear from trees and landscaping.

 

[bags]

$189 for a ton of pellets is an awesome deal! I thought I was getting off cheap at $224 per ton. I am comparatively speaking. Some are paying a decent amount more than that per ton and having trouble getting them.

 

[Dpopps]

After looking on this forum and online reviews, the ECO cab50 looks like a good performer.

I am not sure how the install will work out. Not sure if I can do what I was thinking. Hope I don't confuse anyone, I have confused my self a time or two.

I have not looked but maybe there is a thimble that is only 10x10 inchs.

 

[bags]

What is behind your drywall about 3-4 ft. up? Is this a lower level / basement with poured concrete walls? What do you have in mind to "re-brace" the floor joist you are taking a huge chunk out of. You would need two posts coming down from what I see in your photo. Not real feasible.

If it is concrete you are trying to avoid you could get a concrete cutting and coring company to come out and bore a nice clean hole. I use guys like this frequently. What you are talking about whacking out is a structural joist. I would look for alternatives myself.

 

[bags]

What is your wall construction from your window sill up?

 

[Dpopps]

Yes this is lower level. I would not have to take out the whole floor joist. From the install directions from the cab50 I only need 2inch clearance for the vent pipe.

Above that window is the same thing sub floor.

 

[Dpopps]

behind all the drywall is poured concrete. I am trying to avoid going through that.

 

[Lake Girl]

You should talk with the local building official to define your options (keeps the insurance company happy too). Bags is right, for the small amount of extra money, it would be worth it not to mess with the important structural framing members.

 

[bags]

It wouldn't hurt to get a coring company out to look and give you a bid or price to go thru the concrete wall. It is easier than you think and would eliminate other issues. If you cut the upper or lower 2 inches of that joist it will kill the strength of it. If you look that is why most holes for wiring and plumbing are or should be in the middle third of the boards.

Most of these concrete sawing and boring co's have multiple ways to bore or cut with. They have chainsaws that cut concrete also. I have used one more than once. Whatever they use normally they hook it to a garden hose for water to lube the cut and reduce the diamond blade, chain, or coring bit wear.

You could possibly do what you are speaking of but would need to thru bolt some plate steel across that area. It would need to be fairly long maybe 4-6 feet or so. They could make something up at a fab shop with bolt holes already punched out in the steel. You need to figure load calculations for whatever that joist is carrying. Looks like it is just the floor above. Any walls right above it?

 

[Dpopps]

There are no walls above. How big is a thimble hole? I wounder if I could put a hole in the middle of the joist and use a thimble. I would still have enough room to run a 2x4 full length of the joist top and bottom.

I would rather not drill a hole in the concrete, but Might have too. Thanks for the help.

 

[alternativeheat]

There are no walls above. How big is a thimble hole? I wounder if I could put a hole in the middle of the joist and use a thimble. I would still have enough room to run a 2x4 full length of the joist top and bottom.

I would rather not drill a hole in the concrete, but Might have too. Thanks for the help.

You can probably rent a hammer drill and coring bit and do it yourself. I had a guy make a hole in concrete , he used a hammer drill and long hammer bit. Drill multi holes and chisel it out. Not as pretty but you end up with a hole !! Face it off on both sides the only one who knows it's ugly is you.

 

[Dpopps]

There has got to be a bunch of people on this site that did basement installs. How did they do theirs?